Response from the FDA

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ramblingrose

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Standard party line crap; makes me so mad.

Dear Ms. XXXXX,
Thank you for making your opinions known to the Agency. We appreciate your thoughts and experiences regarding electronic cigarette, cigar, and pipe products.
At this time, we are not aware of any data establishing electronic cigarettes, cigars, or pipes as generally recognized among scientific experts as safe and effective. Based upon our investigation of these products, they are drug/device combinations that require approval by FDA before they may be legally marketed in the United States.
None of these so-called electronic cigarettes, cigars, and pipes, or their components, has been approved by FDA. Therefore, the marketing of them in the United States is subject to enforcement action. As a matter of policy, however, we limit communications about the regulatory status of specific marketed products to those responsible for them, and we do not discuss our enforcement actions except with the targets of those actions.
There may be a perception among some users that electronic cigarettes, cigars, or pipes are safer alternatives to conventional tobacco products. There may also be a perception that these products are a safe and effective means to quit smoking conventional forms of tobacco. However, FDA is not aware of any scientific data to support those perceptions. Since these products have not been submitted to the FDA for evaluation or approval, the agency has no way of knowing the amounts of nicotine or the kinds and amounts of other chemicals that the various brands of these products deliver to the user. FDA is concerned that electronic cigarettes, cigars, or pipes may introduce young people to nicotine use which may lead to an increase in the use of conventional tobacco products with well-known, adverse, health consequences. Additionally, it is unclear what health effects these products could have on users or if misuse or product failure could lead to nicotine poisoning or other serious adverse health consequences.
There are a number of proven safe and effective cessation aids that smokers can use to quit smoking. The U.S. Public Health Service’s, Treating Tobacco Use and Dependence: 2008 Update recommends using a combination of proven cessation interventions including FDA approved nicotine replacement therapy and/or non-nicotine medications and counseling to more than double a smoker’s chances of quitting successfully. Free help is available to smokers in all states by calling 1-800-QUIT-NOW or by visiting www.smokefree.gov.

Again, we appreciate the time that you have taken to contact us.
Best regards,
Division of Drug Information 7
Center for Drug Evaluation and Research
Food and Drug Administration

This communication is consistent with 21CFR10.85(k) and constitutes and informal communication that represents our best judgment at this time but does not constitute an advisory opinion, does not necessarily represent the formal position of the FDA, and does not bind or otherwise obligate or commit the agency to the views expressed.
 

Sar

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Mar 27, 2009
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This doesn't look good. It seems that the writing is on the wall. If it the potential ban gains more momentum it will be difficult to reverse. By momentum I mean more nudge from Philip Morris.

I think I have to resume adding to my stock pile. I stopped after a while because the threat of a major ban didn't seem real, but now I am concerned.
 

Bones

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  • Jun 3, 2009
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    I got the exact same letter too - It really says and means nothing - Standard bureaucratic double talk and basically says - .... OUT - We ain't telling you nothing! - They state that clearly in this phrase - Which is the heart of the response -

    As a matter of policy, however, we limit communications about the regulatory status of specific marketed products to those responsible for them, and we do not discuss our enforcement actions except with the targets of those actions.

    That translates to - "It's nunnya beez-wax- Shut-up and take a seat!"

    The rest is just standard form letter BLAH BLAH BLAH - -
     

    Lorena_Palin

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    Jul 1, 2009
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    why arent other things not evaluated by the FDA not banned until the evaluation?
    there are tons of products flying off the shelfs w/o approval. so they have some explaining to do!

    I honestly have no idea why. Most of the "Medicine" you get over the counter has not been approved by the FDA. Hell they even advertise it. Next time your watching TV, check out those "Extenze" adds. They come right out and say "It enlarges your penis" and then have the little fine print that says "this statement has not been aproved by the FDA", whats more is that one of those (either that or "Enzyte") had E-coli in it. Nice. Same thing goes with some of the vitamins, cold medicines- even Lactaid, a tablet that allows lactose intolorant people to eat dairy, that is commonly acepted to work well (and it does) is not FDA approved.

    So on one end of the stuff the FDA has not aproved but has no problem with we have penis pills marketed towards insecure men, and on the other we have some fairly well respected supplements and such. But none of them have been tested or aproved by the FDA. But all of them are perfectly legal.

    Also, generally speaking they only recall stuff after some scandal around th effects, like the Zicam nose swabs that damaged your sense of smell because you were rubbing a heavy metal directly into your nose. But they didn't say "We gotta test this before we allow on drugstore shelves" it was VERY popular untill somone did do a test and said "Ummm...yeah...you will no longer be able to smell anything...my bad"

    I guess the question, and this has been the question all along, where do E-cigs fit in? And why are they worse than some of the perfectly legal crap out there that I mentioned before.
     

    Bones

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  • Jun 3, 2009
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    I honestly have no idea why. Most of the "Medicine" you get over the counter has not been approved by the FDA. Hell they even advertise it. Next time your watching TV, check out those "Extenze" adds. They come right out and say "It enlarges your penis" and then have the little fine print that says "this statement has not been aproved by the FDA", whats more is that one of those (either that or "Enzyte") had E-coli in it. Nice. Same thing goes with some of the vitamins, cold medicines- even Lactaid, a tablet that allows lactose intolorant people to eat dairy, that is commonly acepted to work well (and it does) is not FDA approved.

    So on one end of the stuff the FDA has not aproved but has no problem with we have penis pills marketed towards insecure men, and on the other we have some fairly well respected supplements and such. But none of them have been tested or aproved by the FDA. But all of them are perfectly legal.

    Also, generally speaking they only recall stuff after some scandal around th effects, like the Zicam nose swabs that damaged your sense of smell because you were rubbing a heavy metal directly into your nose. But they didn't say "We gotta test this before we allow on drugstore shelves" it was VERY popular untill somone did do a test and said "Ummm...yeah...you will no longer be able to smell anything...my bad"

    I guess the question, and this has been the question all along, where do E-cigs fit in? And why are they worse than some of the perfectly legal crap out there that I mentioned before.


    Tobacco products command a GLOBAL market worth 1.8 TRILLION US DOLLARS per year - That's why - :cool:
     

    Porphy

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    My mother also got the same reply and she's worried sick. She was never able to quit and by time she switched to e-cigs she was confined to a scooter, on a constant air tank and she was taking 4 or 5 medications to help with breathing. Now after only a couple months of e-cigs she can get out of the scooter for most of the day, she's down to 2 meds, and the air tank only gets used as prescribed by the doctor (once a day for 5 mins but he keeps decreasing the frequency each visit).

    She's still addicted to nicotine, but we knew going into this it wasn't a cessation plan but a healthier alternative. Her doctor even encourages her to keep it up. He can't find any research to back up the effects but he says "if it's working to save your life then why would you ever quit?"

    Now she's afraid she'll lose the one thing that has worked to make her healthy in over 40 years of serious addiction and abuse.

    Luckily, I live outside of the states and garunteed her that I would never let her supply run out if a ban occurs. My worry is for those people that are getting-or have gotten-healthy from this device that might be forced back to tobacco as a result of bad legislation and profit mongering.
     

    Sar

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    Mar 27, 2009
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    My mother also got the same reply and she's worried sick. She was never able to quit and by time she switched to e-cigs she was confined to a scooter, on a constant air tank and she was taking 4 or 5 medications to help with breathing. Now after only a couple months of e-cigs she can get out of the scooter for most of the day, she's down to 2 meds, and the air tank only gets used as prescribed by the doctor (once a day for 5 mins but he keeps decreasing the frequency each visit).

    She's still addicted to nicotine, but we knew going into this it wasn't a cessation plan but a healthier alternative. Her doctor even encourages her to keep it up. He can't find any research to back up the effects but he says "if it's working to save your life then why would you ever quit?"

    Now she's afraid she'll lose the one thing that has worked to make her healthy in over 40 years of serious addiction and abuse.

    Luckily, I live outside of the states and garunteed her that I would never let her supply run out if a ban occurs. My worry is for those people that are getting-or have gotten-healthy from this device that might be forced back to tobacco as a result of bad legislation and profit mongering.

    Your mom is lucky that you are outside of the US. Could you perhaps gradually reduce the level of nicotine in the liquid she vapes? If you do it little by little, lets say 1 or 2 mg less nicotine every three or four months -- but without telling her -- her body would adjust.

    It is actually much easier to quit addiction when you don't know that you are quitting -- there is much less pressure that way. Depending on how much nicotine she is vaping now, it may take a year or two before she is down to zero nicotine. Even if there is a ban, no-nicotine liquid will be available since the ingredients and flavors (sans nicotine) will be obtainable without too much trouble.
     
    Thank you so much for posting that letter. No, it does not look good. Dang them.

    I've got LOTS of stash, but a little more won't hurt. I love these devices and no I don't want to quit using them. I LOVED smoking and now I love smoking these e-cigs. I've even thought that if I can, I may cut back, and keep cutting back on the amount of nic. in them, but will still smoke them without the nic.

    Just Dang.
     

    chad

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    I've even thought that if I can, I may cut back, and keep cutting back on the amount of nic. in them, but will still smoke them without the nic.

    That's exactly what I'm doing. And... Taking the nicotine out of the mix changes the whole FDA argument (as far as I'm concerned).
     
    That's exactly what I'm doing. And... Taking the nicotine out of the mix changes the whole FDA argument (as far as I'm concerned).

    Chad, what strength of nic. did you start with? How long did it take you to wean off and did you wean off or just quit using the nic. liquid? Did you order liquid without nicotine? Or did you make your own? If so, what was your mixture made of?

    Sorry about all the questions, but if you can, the answers sure would be appreciated!
     

    chad

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    Chad, what strength of nic. did you start with? How long did it take you to wean off and did you wean off or just quit using the nic. liquid? Did you order liquid without nicotine? Or did you make your own? If so, what was your mixture made of?

    Sorry about all the questions, but if you can, the answers sure would be appreciated!

    I quit analogs and was patching for a month or so. I didn't really want to quit nicotine, just quit breathing smoke. I tried a pipe for a while but it was cumbersome. I got down the lowest patch (7mg) then found vaping.
    I pretty much only use IntelliCig's ECOPure. I started with Medium (15mg) for a little while but decided I could go to low (10mg). Did that for a while and started half-and-half mixes of 0mg and 10mg (one drop low, one drop no, so on...). Now in evenings I use the cut low (and sometimes during the day once or twice - depending on my mood) and the rest of the time I use 0mg. I smoked for 12 years but only half-a-pack a day so the taper down wasn't too harsh (except during the patch - that kinda sucked). I don't know if I'll cut off nicotine completely unless forced to. The end of day vape with a tiny bit of nic is nice - kinda like an after dinner drink. Calms the nerves!
     
    I quit analogs and was patching for a month or so. I didn't really want to quit nicotine, just quit breathing smoke. I tried a pipe for a while but it was cumbersome. I got down the lowest patch (7mg) then found vaping.
    I pretty much only use IntelliCig's ECOPure. I started with Medium (15mg) for a little while but decided I could go to low (10mg). Did that for a while and started half-and-half mixes of 0mg and 10mg (one drop low, one drop no, so on...). Now in evenings I use the cut low (and sometimes during the day once or twice - depending on my mood) and the rest of the time I use 0mg. I smoked for 12 years but only half-a-pack a day so the taper down wasn't too harsh (except during the patch - that kinda sucked). I don't know if I'll cut off nicotine completely unless forced to. The end of day vape with a tiny bit of nic is nice - kinda like an after dinner drink. Calms the nerves!

    OK, that explains a lot, thanks Chad! I'm still on high nic. but not as high as I was. Hopefully I can cut back slowly, but I really don't want to give up the vaping!
     
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