Richmond weighs in

[TropicalBob]

Comprehensive overview of current e-smoking status from a tobacco state newspaper:

Smoking debate has become nicotine-delivery debate | Richmond Times-Dispatch

 

[eric]

Wow. Great find, Bob!

 

[CJsKee]

That's the first time I remember seeing it mentioned that Phillip Morris has an e-cig type product. And they had no comment for the article? What's that about...have they seen the future, and the future is now?

 

[surbitonPete]

They say......"The issue, at least as far as we are concerned, is safety, because nobody knows what is in them," .......wow NOBODY knows what it is we are vaping......I thought it was at least Nicotine.

 

[fishhd]

What makes Richard A. Daynard, a law professor an expert in addiction and adolescent social behavior?

 

[cyberwolf]

They say......"The issue, at least as far as we are concerned, is safety, because nobody knows what is in them," .......wow NOBODY knows what it is we are vaping......I thought it was at least Nicotine.

But we do know the spokesman for tobacco free kids is a liar. I'm sure he's seen the same studies we have.

I also hate the way these articles are mentioning that PG is found in anti-freeze, but don't bother to mention that it's in the special non-toxic antifreeze. How convenient it is to omit those pesky facts.

 

[Wally]

What I am most struck by in these arguments is the persistent confusion of "smoking" with nicotine use. The Daynard quotation in this piece is a clear example, in his idea that e-cigs "encourage people to continue smoking." This is either idiocy or manipulation. If the distinction between the two can't be made, the e-cig will go the way of tobacco.

 

[ladyraj]

What I am most struck by in these arguments is the persistent confusion of "smoking" with nicotine use. The Daynard quotation in this piece is a clear example, in his idea that e-cigs "encourage people to continue smoking." This is either idiocy or manipulation. If the distinction between the two can't be made, the e-cig will go the way of tobacco.

Since cigarettes are protected by the bill...perhaps the e-cig should be categorized as an alternative cigarette that reduces litter and ETS. Thus, I submit that a distinction between the e-cig and tobacco should not be made.

 

[let_there_be_vaping]

"The nicotine and alcohol -- usually propylene glycol, used as a moisturizer in cosmetics and in antifreeze ..."

I wonder if asthma sufferers are told that their inhalers include an ingredient that is used in antifreeze? No, actually I would wager that they are told instead that the PG is a totally safe ingredient to inhale.

Perceptions are generated with these choice of words through associating PG with antifreeze, and it is intentional.

You know with the way things are done now a days none of us would have central heating: a device using flammable gas ignited with a flame inside a box usually situated in the basement of your home.

 

[e-pipeman]

Mr Danyard's views are potentially problematic, as are those of Joel Spivak. PVs must be seen to be squarely aimed at nicotine-addicted adults, not adults in general and certainly not children.

Daynard beieves that the devices "encourage people to keep smoking. . . . They reduce the incentive to quit." Tell that to those of us who haven't smoked tobacco for many months as a result of this technology. Mr Danyard has to clearly define what he means by "smoking" imho. He is a lawyer after all - and of course an "expert".

 

[mmmvaping]

I still dont understand why they keep saying they dont know what is in them. there has been studies done. Hell even TW juice puts the exacted percentage of each ingrediant on each and every box and bottle. New zeland has alreday dont tesing on ryan's juice. My only guess is until we do the milllions of dollars of testing in the USA under FDA guidlines they wont amit to s***. Why haven't i seen news articals from major news papers and news stations saying that testing has been done in new zeland and also show the TW ejuice bottles that have the axact contents listed. Figure that one out

 

[TropicalBob]

I often refer the curious to the Health New Zealand test results, and I use them to assure myself that my practice is safe. I certainly think that's the case. But ..

That study and the resulting papers have not been peer-reviewed and published in a scientific journal. Read the FDA statement to suppliers carefully and you'll pick up on that fact. In essence, any group, the Wholey Technofoggers or whoever, could claim to have done a study and put the results on the Web. Errors or outright fraud will come to light only with peer review.

So the fact is that the New Zealand studies don't mean squat -- yet. They have no standing at this time in the scientific community.

And nothing done privately by a supplier will pass muster. That's like a bad used car salesman joke: "Sure, it's safe. Lookee here at my papers."

All these reasons are why you read, and will continue to read, that there are unknowns about e-smoking, that no studies acceptable to the scientific community exist to show safety and efficacy.

 

[Wally]

Since cigarettes are protected by the bill...perhaps the e-cig should be categorized as an alternative cigarette that reduces litter and ETS. Thus, I submit that a distinction between the e-cig and tobacco should not be made.

Lady Raj,

I get your point. But these are not really "cigarettes" in any traditional sense of the word. I think what we're dealing with is that, in the U.S. at least, we have only known nicotine in two forms, as tobacco or as pharmaceuticals. The e-cig doesn't really fit into either category, though it could certainly be made into the latter (which would probably not be good for us as the cost would be astronomical). So my though had been to try to introduce into the public mind a new idea, the non-tobacco, non-pharmaceutical use of nicotine. Clearly the idea that the e-cig perpetuates smoking is ridiculous and I'm afraid that the idea does what all the abstinence approaches to public health do: it make one feel that a switch to a much lower injury device is pointless. People just throw in the towel and do the most harmful thing.

The whole idea that smoking is *nothing but* addiction to nicotine is implicit in the idea that e-cigs perpetuate smoking. It takes any meaning out of smoking. What abstinence people are really saying is that they want us to be just like them. I don't want to be just like them. Above and beyond the addictive component, nicotine has been a big help to me in my life. I wish I'd had a better way to use it a long time ago.

Wally

 

[mamacat]

"The nicotine and alcohol -- usually propylene glycol, used as a moisturizer in cosmetics and in antifreeze ..."

I wonder if asthma sufferers are told that their inhalers include an ingredient that is used in antifreeze? No, actually I would wager that they are told instead that the PG is a totally safe ingredient to inhale.

Perceptions are generated with these choice of words through associating PG with antifreeze, and it is intentional.

You know with the way things are done now a days none of us would have central heating: a device using flammable gas ignited with a flame inside a box usually situated in the basement of your home.

let,there,be,vaping ~

+1 I find it curious how words are often intentionally manipulated to fit the situation.

My heating unit is in the attic, and yes, it is gas. 8-o

 

[C2Girl]

good find TBob!!!
I live about 90 miles from Richmond, and VCU is actually the college that was mentioned in my interview studying this.

Really hope they can keep funding going

 

[Roadmaster]

So the problem with the New Zealand Study is peer review, but if they really wanted to balance thier reporting why not use a country that has decided how to logically approach it?

“Although stopping tobacco use is the ideal outcome for individual and public health, this is difficult to achieve. Harm reduction approaches in public health are sometimes criticized for condoning the activity they are trying to make safer. The Royal College of Physicians takes no position on the morality of smoking. However, since smoking (tobacco) is dangerous to health, and is hard to give up, the College wants to see a range of effective methods to smokers quit or to reduce the harm they sustain.”

Royal College of Physicians

My only conclusion is they don't want to report in a balanced way. Since I live in Virginia with big Tabacco here, I guess I would be pretty suprised if they did!