Safer liquids?

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Nine_inch_snails

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Hello everyone!

I'm new to vaping and I've been doing a little research now that I am completely off of cigarettes and I keep coming across articles claiming that there are chemicals in the liquid that make vaping very dangerous for your health?
Well, I was wondering what brands of liquid you guys use? Are there more natural ones I should be looking for? Are there certain ingredients I should be avoiding? Are there liquids that are safer?
Thanks in advance!
 

AndriaD

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Most of what's out in the media is 100% unadulterated GARBAGE. They're saying lately that ejuices have "diacetyl" -- some do, that's true; what they DID NOT say is that cigarettes have about 700 times more than any ejuice on the market.

Andria
 

Rossum

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Hello everyone!

I'm new to vaping and I've been doing a little research now that I am completely off of cigarettes and I keep coming across articles claiming that there are chemicals in the liquid that make vaping very dangerous for your health?
Well, I was wondering what brands of liquid you guys use? Are there more natural ones I should be looking for? Are there certain ingredients I should be avoiding? Are there liquids that are safer?
Thanks in advance!
So many concise, helpful responses in this thread. :facepalm:

If you're worried about diketones in you liquid, which is the stuff that the media has been all up in arms about lately, go here: The Diketone free tested vendors list

Whether diketones are really a problem is the subject of much debate. Personally, I prefer to avoid them too.
 

93gc40

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The main ingredient that should be avoided is "diacetyl". This is an ingredient that gives a butter flavor to butterscotch and some pastry flavors. The harmful effects of diacetyl came to light when workers in a popcorn factory came down with an irreversible lung condition called "popcorn lung".

Most manufacturers in the e-liquid industry have voluntarily removed diactyl from their recipes.

FWI, the ONLY people who got the "PopCorn Lung" were those Factory workers and the test rats in the labs. Cigarettes have many times more of the chemical than ejuice. Yet we never Heard of the stuff in relation to smoking???? You gotta wonder is there a real danger or are we being fed propaganda, by those who have something to loose by Vaping being popular or those who just don't like people being happy.

It's kinda like the CO2 scare with climate change...... Without CARBON, there would be NO LIFE on this planet. CO2 is plant food.. Plants create Oxygen. No CO2, no plants equals no people.
 

Steamix

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It's kinda like the CO2 scare with climate change...... Without CARBON, there would be NO LIFE on this planet. CO2 is plant food.. Plants create Oxygen. No CO2, no plants equals no people.

True enough.

Some folks stand to gain from exaggerating the problem. Some folks stand to gain from denying that there is a problem.

Somewhere in between where it's usually at : Human activity generates a LOT of CO2. At the same time, we're cutting down forests at an unprecedented rate.
So the system is out of balance. But how much out of balance? Thats is a subject of a lot of learned disputes. Closer to home : No white ( i.e. snowy ) xmas this year.
Fifth in a row ...

Black-white thinking. Found everywhere. Simpletons like it, 'cuz it's easy to follow. Regardless whether its ANTZ or ISIS. No brains required.

So there's diacetyl in e-juice. Baaad. Let's ban it too.
The fact that the concentrations are miniscule compared to tobacco smoke and workplace exposure is too complicated to contemplate.
Doesn't fit in the simplicistic picture.

If there's diacetyl in it put it on the label and let the potential buyer decide for him- or herself.
 

AndriaD

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Some folks stand to gain from exaggerating the problem. Some folks stand to gain from denying that there is a problem.

Absolutely this.

It's true that vaping is an order of magnitude safer than smoking cigarettes. It's probably also true for many of us that we'd like to know that what we're vaping doesn't contain worse stuff than cigarettes, or as much bad stuff as cigarettes, and for the most part, I'd say ejuice doesn't, or it wouldn't be an order of magnitude safer than smoking.

There *are* a couple of vendors who have massive amounts of diketones (diacetyl, et al) in their juices; if you want to avoid that, there's a thread here on the forum about vendors who test and publish, letting consumers know that either there are no diketones in their juices, or very, very little. Since it sounds like you're pretty new to vaping, @Nine_inch_snails, you probably buy your ejuice instead of making your own, so that list is probably your best resource for finding ejuice that's fairly "clean" -- later, if you find that vaping is working really well for you and you want to stick to it, you may need to move to making your own DIY ejuice, both because the commercial kind is very expensive compared to DIY, and also because of all the political crap, which might have the result of taking commercial ejuice off the market in a fairly short time-frame.

In your first post, you asked about "natural" ejuice, and it's actually quite counter-intuitive, but "natural" or organic products are probably going to be more prone to containing diketones than synthetic products, because diacetyl is a naturally-occurring substance in many foods -- it's safe to eat, just maybe not to inhale. Organic ejuice is also a lot more prone to making a black mess of your coils -- mother nature doesn't have an FDA, and in natural products, the bad and the good are in there together; in synthetic products, the "bad" ingredients are purposefully left out, just never added, so you'll end up with a product that's cleaner-vaping, and probably also safer to inhale. The natural or organic products we'd mostly all prefer to eat, aren't necessarily better for inhalation.

Andria
 

sofarsogood

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10's of millions of people around the world are vaping and it has been going on for years. Where are the reports of Doctors treating illnesses caused by using e-cigs? All the fuss seems to be about flavors. So vape unflavored.Or find a simple flavor you can use in a very small amount and stick to that. The best we know right now is that vaping is lower risk and if you learn to rebuild and mix at home vaping can be free for practical purposes.
 
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Nine_inch_snails

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how did you manage smoking ALL those chemicals in cigarettes all those years?! if ecig are dangerous, cigarettes are DEADLY!

there is research showing that vapor is MUCH safer alternative to smoking.. is it completely safe? nothing in life is, we breath polluted air every day. but i haven't heard anyone die from breathing smog. have you heard of anyone die from vaping? probably not. have you heard of people dieing from smokeing cigarettes? i'm sure i already know the answer to that one!

chemicals_smoke.jpg
Ummmm... How does this answer my question? I already very clearly stated that I quit smoking cigarettes thanks to vaping so what exactly is your point?
 

WharfRat1976

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Hello everyone!

I'm new to vaping and I've been doing a little research now that I am completely off of cigarettes and I keep coming across articles claiming that there are chemicals in the liquid that make vaping very dangerous for your health?
Well, I was wondering what brands of liquid you guys use? Are there more natural ones I should be looking for? Are there certain ingredients I should be avoiding? Are there liquids that are safer?
Thanks in advance!
Buy any juice from Nicoticket and enjoy. They are an ECF supplier so have a forum here where you can look at reviews.
 

seebo

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how did you manage smoking ALL those chemicals in cigarettes all those years?! if ecig are dangerous, cigarettes are DEADLY!

there is research showing that vapor is MUCH safer alternative to smoking.. is it completely safe? nothing in life is, we breath polluted air every day. but i haven't heard anyone die from breathing smog. have you heard of anyone die from vaping? probably not. have you heard of people dieing from smokeing cigarettes? i'm sure i already know the answer to that one!

chemicals_smoke.jpg
 

skoony

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At the same time, we're cutting down forests at an unprecedented rate.
Yes we are. We are also replanting at double that rate in most cases. Even in the Amazon. If you have ever seen an aerial picture of clear cutting in the Amazonian jungle you notice it looks like a giant tree with cuts going out like branches on a tree. This is to limit water run off to help in the regrowth of the forest where the cutting was done. They wont show you the same patch 5 years later.
Are the only cases of popcorn lung due to inhaling dry powder in the air?
That is what I suspect. I have read study after study by the government pertaining to the breakouts of popcorn lung in
the late 1990's thru the early 2000's. Some reports indicated diacetyl in three forms were used. liquid,paste and,powdered form.
No where do they indicate what form was used,when it was used nor how much was used compared to other forms. In tests
simulating mixing conditions they checked all three types by putting them in test tubes that were quickly heated to 50C (122F)
and checked for diacetyl in ppm in the air in the tubes. The results showed higher amount of diacetyl in the liquid followed by
the paste with the powdered form being the lowest. They then mentioned in powdered form mixing with the powdered form
would create a secondary risk from the dust. The dust part rang my bell. Having worked as a mixer for premixed cieling and wall textures and paint I am very familiar with the hazards associated with fine dry particulate matter (dust).
Still that wasn't enough to convince me until I stumbled upon this.
"In the 1990’s, factory workers in a microwave popcorn plant contracted bronchiolitis, also known as ‘popcorn lung’. It was generally believed that this was the result of inhaling a powdered form of diacetyl, in very high concentrations, which is used in the butter flavoring for the popcorn."
The Truth About Diacetyl
Followed by these.
"The disease appears in different forms, depending on the type of dust you inhale. One of the most common forms is black lung disease, also known as miner's lung. It’s caused by breathing in coal dust. Another is brown lung, which comes from working around dust from cotton or other fibers. Other types of dusts that can cause pneumoconiosis include silica and asbestos. Diacetyl, the compound used to give movie popcorn its buttery flavor, also can lead to the disease. This is known as popcorn lung. "
From these two sources.
Pneumoconiosis | Johns Hopkins Medicine Health Library
and
Pneumoconiosis - Online Medical Encyclopedia - University of Rochester Medical Center
If these two distinguished institutions believe it's a dust related issue so do I until proved wrong.
:2c:
Regards
Mike
 

Ryedan

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Hello everyone!

I'm new to vaping and I've been doing a little research now that I am completely off of cigarettes and I keep coming across articles claiming that there are chemicals in the liquid that make vaping very dangerous for your health?
Well, I was wondering what brands of liquid you guys use? Are there more natural ones I should be looking for? Are there certain ingredients I should be avoiding? Are there liquids that are safer?
Thanks in advance!

As you can see from the responses here this is a fairly hot topic in the vape world currently. IMO it will stay this way for a while, mainly because I doubt we're going to get any good solid answers to most of the possible issues any time soon.

I make my own juices and use flavorings that are believed not to contain high amounts of diacetyl. The only organic flavoring I use is lemon extract, but only at 1 drop per 10 ml of juice. IMO synthetic flavorings are cleaner and thus likely safer. Making my own juices means I at least know what ingredients are in them. If I were buying ready made juice I would use suppliers who are safety conscious and do enough to make me satisfied their products are reasonably safe.

There are other safety issues with vaping too. I stop vaping and fix things if my juice starts to taste a bit off, burnt hits are not healthy. I don't overheat my coils to avoid the likelihood of nasty chemicals being created and use wicking materials I feel are reasonably safe. I use glass bottles to store juice liquids. I try not to vape too much juice per day.

All this works for me, but YMMV. You got some great links in this thread to more information on a few topics. All you can really do is learn what you can and make up your own mind about things.

Good luck with it :thumb:
 

Baditude

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The main ingredient that should be avoided is "diacetyl". This is an ingredient that gives a butter flavor to butterscotch and some pastry flavors. The harmful effects of diacetyl came to light when workers in a popcorn factory came down with an irreversible lung condition called "popcorn lung".

Most manufacturers in the e-liquid industry have voluntarily removed diactyl from their recipes.
 

Rabbit Slayer

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The main ingredient that should be avoided is "diacetyl". This is an ingredient that gives a butter flavor to butterscotch and some pastry flavors. The harmful effects of diacetyl came to light when workers in a popcorn factory came down with an irreversible lung condition called "popcorn lung".

Most manufacturers in the e-liquid industry have voluntarily removed diactyl from their recipes.

Are the only cases of popcorn lung due to inhaling dry powder in the air?
 

sparkky1

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Yes we are. We are also replanting at double that rate in most cases. Even in the Amazon. If you have ever seen an aerial picture of clear cutting in the Amazonian jungle you notice it looks like a giant tree with cuts going out like branches on a tree. This is to limit water run off to help in the regrowth of the forest where the cutting was done. They wont show you the same patch 5 years later.

That is what I suspect. I have read study after study by the government pertaining to the breakouts of popcorn lung in
the late 1990's thru the early 2000's. Some reports indicated diacetyl in three forms were used. liquid,paste and,powdered form.
No where do they indicate what form was used,when it was used nor how much was used compared to other forms. In tests
simulating mixing conditions they checked all three types by putting them in test tubes that were quickly heated to 50C (122F)
and checked for diacetyl in ppm in the air in the tubes. The results showed higher amount of diacetyl in the liquid followed by
the paste with the powdered form being the lowest. They then mentioned in powdered form mixing with the powdered form
would create a secondary risk from the dust. The dust part rang my bell. Having worked as a mixer for premixed cieling and wall textures and paint I am very familiar with the hazards associated with fine dry particulate matter (dust).
Still that wasn't enough to convince me until I stumbled upon this.
"In the 1990’s, factory workers in a microwave popcorn plant contracted bronchiolitis, also known as ‘popcorn lung’. It was generally believed that this was the result of inhaling a powdered form of diacetyl, in very high concentrations, which is used in the butter flavoring for the popcorn."
The Truth About Diacetyl
Followed by these.
"The disease appears in different forms, depending on the type of dust you inhale. One of the most common forms is black lung disease, also known as miner's lung. It’s caused by breathing in coal dust. Another is brown lung, which comes from working around dust from cotton or other fibers. Other types of dusts that can cause pneumoconiosis include silica and asbestos. Diacetyl, the compound used to give movie popcorn its buttery flavor, also can lead to the disease. This is known as popcorn lung. "
From these two sources.
Pneumoconiosis | Johns Hopkins Medicine Health Library
and
Pneumoconiosis - Online Medical Encyclopedia - University of Rochester Medical Center
If these two distinguished institutions believe it's a dust related issue so do I until proved wrong.
:2c:
Regards
Mike

http://defendingscience.org/sites/default/files/upload/Kanwal.pdf
 

sparkky1

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I was under the impression applied heat put more diacatyl in the air.
Of course this could mean more volatile because of more diacetyl.
I am unaware of the differences between the two other than I have
heard they may be comparable.
Regards
Mike

A study comparing the concentration of diacetyl emissions from heated butter flavoring powders, pastes, and liquids found that the heated liquids and pastes produced higher airborne concentrations of diacetyl (26). However, substitution of a flavoring based only on its form as a powder should be done with caution. During a NIOSH investigation of a California flavoring manufacturing plant, the highest airborne exposure to diacetyl and acetoin occurred in the powder flavoring production area (7). Inhalation of respirable particles containing powdered flavoring substances may deliver flavoring substances deep into the lung. Further study is needed to determine the effects of these particles
Safety and Health Information Bulletins | Occupational Exposure to Flavoring Substances: Health Effects and Hazard Control
 

sparkky1

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Quite right. I am assuming they are assuming the more diacetyl released into the air means more toxicity
by dosage. I have been speculating perhaps (not for sure) it may be more a problem of the form of diacetyl
ones exposed to. It may be all three forms. I am not saying it isn't just that I suspect it might not be the
whole story.
Regards
Mike

That quote I sent sounds a little confusing to say the least, but at least they are acknowledging other chemicals to the equation ...............
 
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