Senator Frank R. Lautenberg: following the money

[wearemany]

Hi all. I've been lurking and vaping for a couple of weeks and finally joined just to make this post. Forgive me if this information has been posted before. I did search before posting, but there are a large number of posts mentioning Senator Lautenberg and I could easily have overlooked this information.

While reading various pv related articles I saw Lautenberg's name pop up a number of times in relation to banning pv's. So, I decided to find out who's paying him.

If you go to opensecrets.org and look up the combined contribution to his Campaign Committee and Political Action Committee for 2010, you will see a company called Vector Group. They were his number two contributor in 2010 and 2006, and his number three contributor in 2008.

If you type Vector Group into Google, the company's website is the first one listed. I am reasonably certain that this is the correct Vector Group because Howard Lorber, Vector Group's CEO, has also made campaign contributions to Lautenberg.

If you take a look at Vector Group's website, be sure to click on their subsidiaries. They do two things: real estate and... drum roll please... cigarettes.

Liggett Group LLC, a Vector Group subsidiary, claims to be "the fifth largest manufacturer of cigarettes in the United States in terms of unit sales."

Hypocrisy makes me so angry.

 

[lmrasch]

Not surprising, I can't speak for everyone here, but many a statement has been made about following the money trail...welcome to the scent hound forum .
Thanks

 

[Denrock316]

Thanks for the info.

 

[Java_Az]

With 20,000 to 30,000 people switching to E-cigs a week we for sure are going to see things like this. This is not just putting a hit on cigarette makers but also the Government. Tax revenues are going down along with decreased sales. The Tobacco industry is not the only ones with powerful lobbyist in Washington. Any major industry you will find has the same thing going on as far as donating to politicians. This is nothing new and has been going on for a long time. This is just my opinion, I personally believe in the end if we the vapors get stong enough and ..... enough, that what we will see happen is a Tax on vaping supplies. The Government will stop trying to get it banned as long as they can make up for the tax revenues they are losing right now. So it will come down to the dollar not that fact that it is safer and less toxic for people, but the fact that our Government wants that cash back in their pockets.

 

[Magus86]

They better not ban it OR tax it like they tax cigarettes. A big part of why I'm switching to e-cigs has to do with the cost, in addition to the health benefits. The government has no right to step in and force a product to be sold at a higher price to reduce its ability to be a competitor to something else. That's not free market. That's not capitalism. That has no place in America.

 

[librarising]

With 20,000 to 30,000 people switching to E-cigs a week we for sure are going to see things like this. This is not just putting a hit on cigarette makers but also the Government. Tax revenues are going down along with decreased sales. The Tobacco industry is not the only ones with powerful lobbyist in Washington. Any major industry you will find has the same thing going on as far as donating to politicians. This is nothing new and has been going on for a long time. This is just my opinion, I personally believe in the end if we the vapors get stong enough and ..... enough, that what we will see happen is a Tax on vaping supplies. The Government will stop trying to get it banned as long as they can make up for the tax revenues they are losing right now. So it will come down to the dollar not that fact that it is safer and less toxic for people, but the fact that our Government wants that cash back in their pockets.

You are so on the mark here. Many state and the Federal government have pinned additional revenue on cigarette smokers, and they are starting to find that revenue going "down in vapor". Good for that, but I also believe in what you said, they will probably find a way to tax ecigarettes. I think the only way they can get around it is by taxing all nicotine products. This would have to include gum, lozenges and patches.

 

[The Fool]

Great first post! Welcome. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

 

[Pav]

They better not ban it OR tax it like they tax cigarettes. A big part of why I'm switching to e-cigs has to do with the cost, in addition to the health benefits. The government has no right to step in and force a product to be sold at a higher price to reduce its ability to be a competitor to something else. That's not free market. That's not capitalism. That has no place in America.

Actually, wouldn't that be the type of thing the libertarian-conservative free market thinkers support? A use tax, rather than raising revenue through income tax, etc.

You are so on the mark here. Many state and the Federal government have pinned additional revenue on cigarette smokers, and they are starting to find that revenue going "down in vapor". Good for that, but I also believe in what you said, they will probably find a way to tax ecigarettes. I think the only way they can get around it is by taxing all nicotine products. This would have to include gum, lozenges and patches.

I could see that tax. Of course if it were Nicotene tax, then it should only apply to juice sold with nicotene in it, not non-nic juice or any of the hardware.

As it stands now, I don't think anyone even pays any sales tax on the ecig stuff we buy. Does that sound correct?

 

[librarising]

Actually, wouldn't that be the type of thing the libertarian-conservative free market thinkers support? A use tax, rather than raising revenue through income tax, etc.



I could see that tax. Of course if it were Nicotene tax, then it should only apply to juice sold with nicotene in it, not non-nic juice or any of the hardware.

As it stands now, I don't think anyone even pays any sales tax on the ecig stuff we buy. Does that sound correct?

I've paid NYS sales tax when purchasing from NY vendors.

 

[Java_Az]

As it stands now, I don't think anyone even pays any sales tax on the ecig stuff we buy. Does that sound correct?

Unless it is a walk in store or a mall kiosk where a state sales tax would apply the anwser would be pretty much no. Intenet sales are not really taxable unless the seller is in your state. Not sure how many are really keeping up with it. But if you did buy from seller in your state technically you should be paying a tax. Other then those it is tax free right now.

Edit: there is one state that has a law that all internet sales even the ones going out of the state are taxed. Dont remember the state off hand.

 

[Schewbert Gordonbruger]

Honestly what finally pushed me into trying out e-cigs was when I read about the FDA and Governmental dislike of ecigs. If the government doesn't like it, it must be good.

 

[orville99]

What PV'rs need is a cohesive presence. Without a strong trade association, and a focus on educating the public and answering the questions/objections being raised, we're all just spinning in the wind.

Just stroll through these threads and see how many non-standard, one-off, tweaked/modded/coddled up variants exist. As long as PV'rs are all over the map, the politicos won't take anything we say seriously.

 

[xg4bx]

I'm from NJ, Lautenberg is an utterly clueless old man who should have been put out to pasture decades ago. Fools like him have had a grip on The Peoples Republic of NJ for far too long, thank god for Chris Christie.

 

[ab357]

Don't forget all those Southern Republican members of Congress that's firmly in big tobacco's pockets.

Hi all. I've been lurking and vaping for a couple of weeks and finally joined just to make this post. Forgive me if this information has been posted before. I did search before posting, but there are a large number of posts mentioning Senator Lautenberg and I could easily have overlooked this information.

While reading various pv related articles I saw Lautenberg's name pop up a number of times in relation to banning pv's. So, I decided to find out who's paying him.

If you go to opensecrets.org and look up the combined contribution to his Campaign Committee and Political Action Committee for 2010, you will see a company called Vector Group. They were his number two contributor in 2010 and 2006, and his number three contributor in 2008.

If you type Vector Group into Google, the company's website is the first one listed. I am reasonably certain that this is the correct Vector Group because Howard Lorber, Vector Group's CEO, has also made campaign contributions to Lautenberg.

If you take a look at Vector Group's website, be sure to click on their subsidiaries. They do two things: real estate and... drum roll please... cigarettes.

Liggett Group LLC, a Vector Group subsidiary, claims to be "the fifth largest manufacturer of cigarettes in the United States in terms of unit sales."

Hypocrisy makes me so angry.

 

[librarising]

Don't forget all those Southern Republican members of Congress that's firmly in big tobacco's pockets.

Exactly.

IMHO, the vast majority of politicians in public office are financed by corporations and place corporate interests above the needs of their constituency. This can never end without true finance reform and that will never happen because these corporate whores will never vote for it and risk losing their gravy trains. We can vote them out but then very often, the people you vote for are or will become corporate tools too. The money is way too tempting to them. And just think that it costs millions of dollars these days to run campaigns...who's paying for it?

 

[orville99]

Exactly.

IMHO, the vast majority of politicians in public office are financed by corporations and place corporate interests above the needs of their constituency. This can never end without true finance reform and that will never happen because these corporate whores will never vote for it and risk losing their gravy trains. We can vote them out but then very often, the people you vote for are or will become corporate tools too. The money is way too tempting to them. And just think that it costs millions of dollars these days to run campaigns...who's paying for it?

Unfortunately, it's more than just finance reform. When you consider that New Yorkers are paying more than $8/pack just in taxes, the incentive to permit any alternative just isn't going to get any traction. Costs from the mfr to the wholesaler average about $1/pack, and the mfr makes about 50 cents in margin at that price

 

[librarising]

Hi Orville99!

In this post I was addressing the actual politicians, and in a prior post I mentioned the government incentives of trying to drum additional tax revenue in regard to cigarettes. Earlier this year there was a 775% tax increase on rolling tobacco, which hit me because I could no longer afford to support my 3 pack a day habit with the already heavy NYS taxation, which became even heavier a couple of months ago. Cigarettes are about $9.50 where I live in NY.

I also stated in that post that I could see the only way they could tax ecigs was to tax the nicotine juice itself. Then those taxes should also extend to nicotine gum, lozenges and patches.

 

[SnowDragon]

There is a little haiku & poetry contest going on at V4L, thought you might enjoy this:

I read an article in the Wall St. Journal today
it talked about vaping and what the FDA had to say
Government via Big tobacco want to go to the courts
Hypocrisy abounds from these masters of torts
Safety and Health are simply a dream
They only want a new revenue stream
Salmonella in eggs and mad cow disease
Just label it a Sin Tax they’ll do as they please
We are the Vapers 1 million strong
Yet some states that ban vaping will sell you a _ong
This whole thing doesn't make any sense
Other than feeding the coffers for government expense
I'm an adult I just want to be free
What I do with my body should be up to me
Some call it Campaign Funding I call it a bribe
Duplicitous and corrupt are the best words to describe
I'm all for safety and good health of course
But when it comes to my safety consider the source
Well I guess that's really all I have to say
I'm writing my check to the CASAA

It's a stretch to link Lautenberg the champion of Anti-smoking campaigns to be the agent of Big Tobacco, especially considering the paltry sums he has received in contributions.

That being said, there are other forces at work in this scenario like the F.D.A. who receives millions doing test studies for smoking cessation, state governments looking for new revenue streams, Pharma giants like GSK & Pfizer to name a few have major investments in smoking cessation prescription pharmaceuticals, and of course let us not forget our good friends at Big Tobacco.

Lautenberg is simply the perfect lackey to represent the government in this matter. One of the biggest problems was the initial marketing of p/v's as e-cigarettes, a case of guilt by syntax association.

The end-game is not to ban, but to force manufacturers into paying the FDA for licensing and studies while levying Sin-Taxes. O.K. I'm done...back to vaping!

 

[flavourvapour]

r-r-r-r-r-revenue. is all i have to say.

 

[t9c]

If you believe that excellent poem, it's not a stretch to believe Lautenberg is an agent of BT at all...Duplicitous and corrupt are the best words to describe

There is a little haiku & poetry contest going on at V4L, thought you might enjoy this:

I read an article in the Wall St. Journal today
it talked about vaping and what the FDA had to say
Government via Big tobacco want to go to the courts
Hypocrisy abounds from these masters of torts
Safety and Health are simply a dream
They only want a new revenue stream
Salmonella in eggs and mad cow disease
Just label it a Sin Tax they’ll do as they please
We are the Vapers 1 million strong
Yet some states that ban vaping will sell you a _ong
This whole thing doesn't make any sense
Other than feeding the coffers for government expense
I'm an adult I just want to be free
What I do with my body should be up to me
Some call it Campaign Funding I call it a bribe
Duplicitous and corrupt are the best words to describe
I'm all for safety and good health of course
But when it comes to my safety consider the source
Well I guess that's really all I have to say
I'm writing my check to the CASAA

It's a stretch to link Lautenberg the champion of Anti-smoking campaigns to be the agent of Big Tobacco, especially considering the paltry sums he has received in contributions.

That being said, there are other forces at work in this scenario like the F.D.A. who receives millions doing test studies for smoking cessation, state governments looking for new revenue streams, Pharma giants like GSK & Pfizer to name a few have major investments in smoking cessation prescription pharmaceuticals, and of course let us not forget our good friends at Big Tobacco.

Lautenberg is simply the perfect lackey to represent the government in this matter. One of the biggest problems was the initial marketing of p/v's as e-cigarettes, a case of guilt by syntax association.

The end-game is not to ban, but to force manufacturers into paying the FDA for licensing and studies while levying Sin-Taxes. O.K. I'm done...back to vaping!