Should Children be Allowed to Buy e-Liquids that contain Nicotine?

[zoiDman]

Based on an arbitrary definition of what it means to be adult.



I've seen you make a fairly significant flip flop today. You went from "all minors have fundamental inability" to "I will not Disagree that there can be found 12 Year Olds who have the Mental Capacity."

You could've selected 17 year olds to make that point and it would've been roughly the same point, but that you chose 12 year olds, is a very huge step away from "all minors have fundamental inability." And you did this in matter of minutes. Perhaps by Tuesday of this week, you'll be beyond where I'm at on this issue, wondering when I might catch up to the notion of all minors absolutely ought to have equal access to purchase eliquid with nicotine.

Whatever you say Jman8.

You want to sell e-liquids that contain Nicotine to 12 Year Olds. I Don't.

And you want to quote things Out of Context to try and support your Position. I just Don't really Care.

This thread is just down to Handful of Members. And I don't think these Members are going to be making a Huge Swing in their Opinions. So it seems kinda Pointless to Go Back and Forth on Concepts that have been Brought up Many Times in this Thread Already.

So why don't you Run with this Thread for Awhile?

 

[Jman8]

Whatever you say Jman8.

You want to sell e-Liquids that contain Nicotine to 12 Year Olds. I Don't.

You mischaracterize what I've said, and what this thread is saying for the opposition to your position.

Akin to my saying, you want FDA regulations and want the industry to be decimated. I don't.

 

[Jode]

I've been watching this thread because all "think of the children" motives irk me.

I KNOW that teens experiment with things. You know it too.

I KNOW that some teens are pre-disposed to smoking, but given the popularity and availability of vaping may choose to vape instead. I call that a WIN for their health.

I strongly believe that if strict regulations are imposed on vaping, it will likely make it easier for teens to get cigs or (other stuff) than vaping stuff. The cigs and (other stuff) can also be much smaller and easier to hide than vaping stuff. This is what I don't want. Another very realistic outcome would be black market vape supplies. I'd rather them buy from a shop than the neighborhood dealer, wouldn't you?

The question of this thread is really about teens, right? Because small children wouldn't have access anyway, either because they have good parents who keep an eye on them, or because any shop employee in his right mind would deny a small child trying to make a purchase, if they even allowed them to enter the shop in the first place.

This is where I run into my personal dilemma with an age restriction. I have asked a lot of people at what age thy started to experiment with vices like smoking cigs, cigars, dip etc, and the most common age is 12. I don't think I have ever heard anybody say 18 or older. So if the age is set at 18 and access to vaping (the safer vice) is severely limited what do we expect our youth to do? I understand in a fantasy world that we would all like our youth to pick healthy lifestyles, but reality dictates otherwise. By setting these restriction are we not setting these youngsters up to choosing the easier to get vice of smoking? Do we expect that they need to first be a smoker until they reach that golden age of 18 before they can vape and be accepted by this adult community? It just strikes me odd. The argument that parents could provide vapes for their teen if that is what they want to do doesn't always hold much water because most teens are not that honest with their parents about their out of the house activities. In a perfect world we would be the last generation that ever partakes in a deadly vice, but that is so far from reality. I still stand by no age restriction. I agree completely with Katt, that parents and shop keepers would for the most part keep the very young from partaking.

 

[Jode]

Or, maybe, parents might not let their little kids (under the age of 12) have coffee? I know I didn't...

If you felt you had a good control on coffee that is sold without restriction to age then the same could be said for e-liquid or a vape shop!!!

 

[stevegmu]

I was listening to a radio program Saturday- Handel On the Law, and a lady called up and said she had been charged with a DUI after vaping. I can't imagine one would ever get enough alcohol in their system from vaping, but perhaps it is possible. If so, I imagine age restrictions will be raised to 21, but I imagine there will be some who say children should be allowed to drink alcohol...

Has anyone taken a breathalyzer after a vape session? I know vaporized alcohol goes into the system far faster than drinking it, hence the od's from the vodka vape rooms...

 

[Jman8]

but I imagine there will be some who say children should be allowed to drink alcohol...

Those weirdos. Everyone knows a kid under 21 wouldn't enjoy drinking alcohol. Nor any ability to make an informed choice on drinking alcohol.

I just hope we can curtail soda usage as drinking a Coke looks like drinking Captain and Coke, and it is impossible to tell the difference between the two.

 

[Lessifer]

I was listening to a radio program Saturday- Handel On the Law, and a lady called up and said she had been charged with a DUI after vaping. I can't imagine one would ever get enough alcohol in their system from vaping, but perhaps it is possible. If so, I imagine age restrictions will be raised to 21, but I imagine there will be some who say children should be allowed to drink alcohol...

In most of the world you have to be 18 to purchase, consuming is usually okay at younger ages, and we here in puritanical America tend to have more "problems" with drinking than anyone else.

 

[stevegmu]

In most of the world you have to be 18 to purchase, consuming is usually okay at younger ages, and we here in puritanical America tend to have more "problems" with drinking than anyone else.

I believe the age in the US for buying alcoholic beverages is 21...

 

[stevegmu]

Those weirdos. Everyone knows a kid under 21 wouldn't enjoy drinking alcohol. Nor any ability to make an informed choice on drinking alcohol.

I just hope we can curtail soda usage as drinking a Coke looks like drinking Captain and Coke, and it is impossible to tell the difference between the two.

Most pubs in the US don't allow children to sit at the bar...

 

[Lessifer]

I believe the age in the US for buying alcoholic beverages is 21...

Yes steve it's called a comparison to make a point. In the US you have to be 21, but in most of the world you have the age limit for purchasing is alcohol, and younger "children" routinely drink alcohol under the supervision of their parents. Despite the fact that it's illegal, or perhaps partly because of it, we have more problems with underage drinking, and excessive drinking, than most other countries.

 

[Jman8]

I believe the age in the US for buying alcoholic beverages is 21...

Lessifer's point (I believe) is that the higher age actually produces more problems (in the US) than the rest of the world where the legal age to purchase is 18. Some other nations go with 21, some go with 16. Most go with 18.

Reason for it going to 21 in US has much to do with drinking and driving issues that 18 to 25 year olds were having for a good decade or so. Since going to 21, that has gone down, but of course isn't eliminated.

It's interesting that we trust minors (people under 18) to make all the informed decisions that come with driving, but not with say, I dunno, vaping.

 

[Jman8]

Most pubs in the US don't allow children to sit at the bar...

Which has what to do with the points I raised?

 

[AndriaD]

The point that American puritans seem to miss, or totally ignore, is that putting things off-limits to "kids" makes those things even more attractive to kids than they were already.

Andria

 

[stevegmu]

Yes steve it's called a comparison to make a point. In the US you have to be 21, but in most of the world you have the age limit for purchasing is alcohol, and younger "children" routinely drink alcohol under the supervision of their parents. Despite the fact that it's illegal, or perhaps partly because of it, we have more problems with underage drinking, and excessive drinking, than most other countries.

Most of the problems the US has with underage drinking involve driving. The US is a nation of suburbs, while most in Europe live in cities, or have access to very good pubic transportation. Big difference...

 

[stevegmu]

Which has what to do with the points I raised?

One wouldn't assume a child drinking a Coke was drinking a Cap'n Morgan and Coke, unless they were sloppy and drinking it at a bar...

 

[Jman8]

One wouldn't assume a child drinking a Coke was drinking a Cap'n Morgan and Coke, unless they were sloppy and drinking it at a bar...

Why wouldn't someone assume this based strictly on appearances? Drinking Coke looks like drinking Coke and rum, or Coke and brandy, or Coke and other hard liquors. The appearance is mostly to all that matters in relation to main topic of this thread. If child is vaping zero nic, many have issues with this because it looks like smoking or at least looks like someone might be vaping liquid that contains nicotine (not to mention other stuff). Therefore, drinking Coke looks like drinking Coke with hard liquor in it, and ought to be discouraged for any child drinking coke BEFORE they get to point of being sloppy drunk.

I heard Coke is a gateway drug.

I heard Coke renormalizes under age 16 drinking of alcohol.

I heard Coke is not 100% harmless.

Maybe if their parent wants to buy it for them, I could see a child then being allowed to consume a Coke, but to let a child get this on their own? What is this world coming to?

Is it okay for child to vape nicotine as long as they aren't showing any ill effects from it? Cause this is what you are arguing for with Coke and hard liquor. Child is drinking Coke and no one is sure with what. But if they show up sloppy, then that's a problem. If they show up not sloppy and have their wits about them, then no problem with whatever is in that Coke.

 

[Lessifer]

There is drinking while driving, binge drinking, and not knowing how to "handle" their liquor. The point is, labeling something as an "adult only vice" does not make "children" any safer, in some cases it makes them more susceptible to harm.

 

[stevegmu]

Why wouldn't someone assume this based strictly on appearances? Drinking Coke looks like drinking Coke and rum, or Coke and brandy, or Coke and other hard liquors. The appearance is mostly to all that matters in relation to main topic of this thread. If child is vaping zero nic, many have issues with this because it looks like smoking or at least looks like someone might be vaping liquid that contains nicotine (not to mention other stuff). Therefore, drinking Coke looks like drinking Coke with hard liquor in it, and ought to be discouraged for any child drinking coke BEFORE they get to point of being sloppy drunk.

I heard Coke is a gateway drug.

I heard Coke renormalizes under age 16 drinking of alcohol.

I heard Coke is not 100% harmless.

Maybe if their parent wants to buy it for them, I could see a child then being allowed to consume a Coke, but to let a child get this on their own? What is this world coming to?

Is it okay for child to vape nicotine as long as they aren't showing any ill effects from it? Cause this is what you are arguing for with Coke and hard liquor. Child is drinking Coke and no one is sure with what. But if they show up sloppy, then that's a problem. If they show up not sloppy and have their wits about them, then no problem with whatever is in that Coke.

With drinking, the situation has meaning...
Perhaps soda should be an age restricted product in the US...

 

[stevegmu]

There is drinking while driving, binge drinking, and not knowing how to "handle" their liquor. The point is, labeling something as an "adult only vice" does not make "children" any safer, in some cases it makes them more susceptible to harm.

Having age restrictions makes society feel better...

 

[AndriaD]

There is drinking while driving, binge drinking, and not knowing how to "handle" their liquor. The point is, labeling something as an "adult only vice" does not make "children" any safer, in some cases it makes them more susceptible to harm.

Totally agree.

And I figured out a while ago that the ban on children in bars doesn't really have anything to do with the alcohol that is being served; it is because of the BEHAVIOR of ADULTS drinking alcohol! Perfectly nice normal folks turn into loud obnoxious DRUNKS!

But that doesn't save the kids who are at home watching their parents turn into loud obnoxious drunks; in fact, watching it at home may be worse, because home is supposed to be safe, but loud obnoxious drunks often become abusive; in a bar, they would have peer pressure to control any urges to slap the wife and/or kids around.

Andria