Should Electronic Cigarettes be Regulated as a Medicine? Like the Nicotrol Inhaler or the Nicotine Patches and Gums?

[Tangaroav]

Robino1 - ooops, crossed the line; I will move back from the line. My apologies.

You are apologizing to the wrong person . I accept your sincere apologies nevertheless

 

[WillyZee]

one more post folks ... Keep Calm and vape on

 

[englishmick]

After regulation, you can just buy & sell your juice the same places as the rest of us will which are the same places people buy drugs & hookers. Craigslist and Backpage. It's sad for me to think that most of us are about to become criminals.

Just placed my first order for Nic and VG. I'm pretty confident that I will get what I want to get. Partly because of the regulations on those products, and partly because I made the judgment that the vendor "feels" trustworthy based on what they say and what other people say about them. My choice, my decision, there's no absolute guarantees in this world.

If I chose to order under the counter from China or Craigslist I would have no basis at all for any level of confidence, just have to throw the dice. For nic that is, shouldn't change much for VG.

Funny how regulations don't always work the way they are meant to. I'm a 64 year old guy so unless science pulls a really big one out of the hat I'll never need a back street abortion, but I might need to buy shady nicotine one day. Unless I get stocked up in time that is.

Now I have to make some decisions about flavouring. How to deal with the known maybe dodgy chemicals. The fact that none of them, except for menthol, have been tested for inhalation. etc. Again it will be up to me. I couldn't justify blaming anyone else if I hurt myself, with or without regulations. I'm taking those risks already with store bought juice. And I have the option of just training myself to like menthol. I'll probably try that some time soon.

I was in favour of regulation, but I'm coming round to the position some folks here have been advocating. Testing and information and industry standards. There just doesn't seem to be a regulatory path that won't mess up our world. I'm not convinced it would necessarily result in the vape apocalypse, but I don't have much confidence that it would give us more than it would take away.

 

[Robino1]

How about this....

You can each get your final thoughts in before I close this rather interesting thread.

One hour 2 pm eastern time ... Ok?

Third freaking edit: Any posts that go over the line get automatic deletion. Choose final thoughts carefully

 

[beckdg]

Did you not see the earlier post concerning the ordered 8mg/ml that tested at 38mg/ml ? This is an all too common risk with M&P shops growing like weeds.

i just posted this elsewhere, but i'll do it again.

it's easy to test your nic base.

from there, it's simple grade school math.

here's how i test...

 

[beckdg]

You are apologizing to the wrong person . I accept your sincere apologies nevertheless

and i accept yours.

 

[beckdg]

How about this....

You can each get your final thoughts in before I close this rather interesting thread.

One hour 2 pm eastern time ... Ok?

i think skoony will make it by then. thank you. again.

 

[zoiDman]

I'm not sure I understand your point. The reason online and forum polls are worthless is because they don't target random people. Instead, those that have any interest in the title will click on the link and vote. Those that aren't interested just skip over it. So, in example, if you start a poll with the title "Do you care if your food is GMO free?", with three options (yes, no, and sometimes), in a forum dedicated to people who try to eat more organic foods, then a large percentage of the anti GMO people will click on the poll and immediately select "yes". Some of those that don't care about GMOs in their foods, may click on it to say they don't care, but many won't bother. And the same logic goes for the "sometimes" crowd. Legitimate polls require random people to be selected to participate, and the question also needs to be presented in a non-biased way. The poll you are referencing means nothing, and the 80% you keep talking about means even less since it had such a small amount of participants. To add to that, the poll was posted in a subforum which gets very little traffic compared to the rest of the site. In fact, I think that my first time entering that subforum, was just now, when I looked up the poll.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is Not Necessarily true.

Because you are not Including a Key Concept in what a Poll/Survey does. And that is to make an Inference about a True Population.

If I want to know something about the Views or Opinions of people who use e-Cigarettes, the True Population is All People who use e-Cigarettes.

So if I do a Poll or a Survey of All People, Randomly, my results will be include individuals who are Not part of the True Population. is: People who do Not use an e-Cigarette.

Just like Polling people at a Gun Show about Gun Control laws would yield Skewed results for a True Population of ALL People. The Opposite is Also true.

So if I want to make an Inference about Vaper's Views, I need to ensure, as best I can, that people who do Not Use an e-Cigarette are not included in my Poll/Survey Data. Non-Random Sampling is Needed.

Now once I can Isolate, as Best as I can, the Non-Random Target group to be Polled/Surveyed, then Randomness becomes more Meaningful.

And efforts should be taken to Ensure that of the True Population, in this case - All People who use e-Cigarettes, that my Poll/Survey does Not Favor or Draw from a Sub-Group of the True Population.

Of course, there are a Multitude of Other Factors which can make a Poll/Survey's results Non-Reflective of a True Population. And Most Polls/Surveys done are Tied to getting a Desired Result. So Many are Inherently Biased from the Get Go.

 

[zoiDman]

...

I almost feel that we have taken this to the point where it is just going to be spinning with no possible means of changing any minds. ...

I think we got to that point about 700 posts ago.

Thank you for Allowing the us to play Later than our Normal Bedtime.

 

[Robino1]

I think we got to that point about 700 posts ago.

Thank you for Allowing the us to play Later than our Normal Bedtime.

What can I say, I was playing past my bedtime too

 

[Tangaroav]

How about this....

You can each get your final thoughts in before I close this rather interesting thread.

One hour 2 pm eastern time ... Ok?

Third freaking edit: Any posts that go over the line get automatic deletion. Choose final thoughts carefully

Tell me Robino1, This is the first time I see a thread closed without an explained reason. Why would you close this thread ? What rule forces you do that ?

 

[WillyZee]

Tell me Robino1, This is the first time I see a thread closed without an explained reason. Why would you close this thread ? What rule forces you do that ?

I'm just going to guess ... hardly any posts in this thread relate to the original OPs question.

 

[chargingcharlie]

I hope you voted

I didn't... Which further proves my point.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Robino1]

Tell me Robino1, This is the first time I see a thread closed without an explained reason. Why would you close this thread ? What rule forces you do that ?

Would you rather it be closed like others have been? Just closed without giving the chance to have your last say? Because I can do that.

Then there are complaints about threads just closing. I am giving everyone a chance to get their final thoughts in. As I stated in an earlier post this morning, this thread is now at the point where it is going around and around. Nothing new is being said. Things have gotten contentious, posts needed deleting. It has basically run its course.

I am trying something new. I am giving the opportunity to have a final say.

 

[englishmick]

Have we gone around and around enough yet?

I do want to say that you all have done a good job of staying within the rules of the forum, for the most part

I almost feel that we have taken this to the point where it is just going to be spinning with no possible means of changing any minds. We have seen all sides of whatever argument happens to be discussed during the course of this thread. Which is totally a good thing. Points of view, wherever they are coming from, is a great tool to understanding our fellow members. Maybe even giving others something to think about.

Which is the point of debates.

So...back to my original question.. ?

Since you asked. I got a lot from this thread, but the usefulness quotient has dropped somewhat lately and I just drop in once in a while on the off chance there's something interesting on the last page.

I assume you must continually read every post? In which case you have my respect Robino (and I'm not just saying that because you're a hot chick with a gun). I couldn't do your job. I wouldn't have the patience or the self discipline.

New people join ECF every day and they will need to have these conversations, like I did. But I don't think they would get much from this thread the way it is now. How many times can people say the same things to each other? Maybe a new version would be nice.

 

[chargingcharlie]

This is Not Necessarily true.

Because you are not Including a Key Concept in what a Poll/Survey does. And that is to make an Inference about a True Population.

If I want to know something about the Views or Opinions of people who use e-Cigarettes, the True Population is All People who use e-Cigarettes.

So if I do a Poll or a Survey of All People, Randomly, my results will be include individuals who are Not part of the True Population. is: People who do Not use an e-Cigarette.

Just like Polling people at a Gun Show about Gun Control laws would yield Skewed results for a True Population of ALL People. The Opposite is Also true.

So if I want to make an Inference about Vaper's Views, I need to ensure, as best I can, that people who do Not Use an e-Cigarette are not included in my Poll/Survey Data. Non-Random Sampling is Needed.

Now once I can Isolate, as Best as I can, the Non-Random Target group to be Polled/Surveyed, then Randomness becomes more Meaningful.

And efforts should be taken to Ensure that of the True Population, in this case - All People who use e-Cigarettes, that my Poll/Survey does Not Favor or Draw from a Sub-Group of the True Population.

Of course, there are a Multitude of Other Factors which can make a Poll/Survey's results Non-Reflective of a True Population. And Most Polls/Surveys done are Tied to getting a Desired Result. So Many are Inherently Biased from the Get Go.

Polls regarding regulation need to be conducted toward all people in the location of the proposed regulation. Whether they participate in the activity the regulation would effect has no bearing on the matter. Polling only those directly effected by the regulation would result in a biased poll.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Tangaroav]

Would you rather it be closed like others have been? Just closed without giving the chance to have your last say? Because I can do that.

Then there are complaints about threads just closing. I am giving everyone a chance to get their final thoughts in. As I stated in an earlier post this morning, this thread is now at the point where it is going around and around. Nothing new is being said. Things have gotten contentious, posts needed deleting. It has basically run its course.

I am trying something new. I am giving the opportunity to have a final say.

Thanks for doing so. I really have nothing to add except I REALLY love my Reo's mod.

 

[WillyZee]

sorry ... couldn't help myself when I know time is running out.

stock up folks ... draconian high taxes are coming.

 

[VapinWolf]

I just wanted to point out that nicotine withdrawal symptoms and od symptoms are nearly identical.
I use to OD every night at work when using cigarettes, but Train-Vape© 18mg with no issues. Everyone is different.
I think I should visit the Vaper's dictionary thread with my new creation.

Train-Vape©

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Rossum]

Did you not see the earlier post concerning the ordered 8mg/ml that tested at 38mg/ml ? This is an all too common risk with M&P shops growing like weeds.

I'd be more upset if someone cheated me by giving me 6mg when I paid for 36mg rather than giving me extra nic for free.