Single vs Dual

[muzichead]

HCP? Been around here a while and never seen that... I'm sure it has something to do with parallel coils, but not quite sure.

As to the Nuppin' heating up, I have been vaping both mine with .20-.25Ω dual setups with 26g Ni80 wire and have no problems with heat. I haven't used a drip tip on mine in several months now. Every now and then I might have my lip a little to far over the 510 hole and the vapor might come out a little warm, but never had a top cap heat up where I couldn't vape it... I pretty much chain vape all day as well.

 

[Rule62]

That's the cool thing about vaping, and setting up attys. There are so many variables to take into consideration, from wire type, gauge, number of wraps, chamber size, air flow, wicking material, drip tips, juice, on and on. I've learned more about applied science since I've been vaping, than I ever learned in school. It's why there is no ONE set up or atty for everybody. It's just a matter of figuring it all out.

 

[Spydro]

I don't run 2.5mm diameter duals. I like 2.0mm. But with regard to heat flux, it's a part of coil building that seems to get ignored, or at least minimalized by lots of builders.
In order to achieve my desired .4 ohm dual coil build, I can make 2 coils of 7 wraps each, with 26g kanthal; or, I could make 2 coils of 5 wraps each of 27g kanthal. Same final resistance, .4 ohms, same coil diameter, 2mm. But the heat up time, and the vape will be warmer, with the 27g build.

I know the math, and that achieving the heat flux range we each find to be the perfect vape for us with a particular joose are the builds we should be striving for. I was bored and just playing around waiting for the sun to come up, but it's true that I don't run the numbers for very many builds anymore let alone every build. Rather I rely on past experience to know about what to build for each of the liquids I vape. And I do few builds with 22, 24 & 26 because of the ramp time and batt drain. In this case though it's not just the heat flux difference between these builds, it's the proximity of the coil to the atty cap and DT making it even worse. By over heating the metal it also makes makes the DT too hot for the lips, makes it a much hotter vape than the dual coil build did, probably cooks the joose some and between them degrades the flavor of this joose when it comes to my palate. I've already proved that out to some degree by moving the parallel coil down to one side and closer to the deck in line with the AFC slots. Now 3-4 LDLH's are easily doable with the metal DT and the atty doesn't get anywhere near as hot. Its still a warm vape though that this joose doesn't like, but it's not the double whammy I had going on now. Regardless it will get pulled when I get to it and another dual build put back in that I know works so well with this joose in a Nuppin'.

 

[Spydro]

HCP? Been around here a while and never seen that... I'm sure it has something to do with parallel coils, but not quite sure.

Lazy typing.... high center parallel (coil).

 

[Rule62]

I know the math, and that achieving the heat flux range we each find to be the perfect vape for us with a particular joose are the builds we should be striving for. I was bored and just playing around waiting for the sun to come up, but it's true that I don't run the numbers for very many builds anymore let alone every build. Rather I rely on past experience to know about what to build for each of the liquids I vape. And I do few builds with 22, 24 & 26 because of the ramp time and batt drain. In this case though it's not just the heat flux difference between these builds, it's the proximity of the coil to the atty cap and DT making it even worse. By over heating the metal it also makes makes the DT too hot for the lips, makes it a much hotter vape than the dual coil build did, probably cooks the joose some and between them degrades the flavor of this joose when it comes to my palate. I've already proved that out to some degree by moving the parallel coil down to one side and closer to the deck in line with the AFC slots. Now 3-4 LDLH's are easily doable with the metal DT and the atty doesn't get anywhere near as hot. Its still a warm vape though that this joose doesn't like, but it's not the double whammy I had going on now. Regardless it will get pulled when I get to it and another
dual build put back in that I know works so well with this joose in a Nuppin'.

Like you, I don't really run the numbers on builds much anymore either. I pretty much know what I like, and what works. What I've been doing a lot of lately is altering my juice, to suit my mood at the time. Sometimes I'll vape unflavored. Sometimes I'll just add a drop or two of flavoring to my unflavored juice. With my various DIY juices, sometimes I'll vape them at full strength. Sometimes I'll dilute them down with unflavored, so that the profile is the same, but the flavor strength isn't as intense. But one thing I don't do much anymore is experiment with builds. I'm not one to get a new atty, and try numerous different builds on it.

 

[jifjifjif]

I'm pretty much the same as far as juices go, Rule.

I have also pretty much nailed my favorite coil, which is a 28ga Kanthal parallel coil. 4 wraps around a 2.5mm rod wicked with 3mm RXW. Comes in around .45 and is great. All in an RM2.

 

[Danrogers]

I'm pretty much the same as far as juices go, Rule.

I have also pretty much nailed my favorite coil, which is a 28ga Kanthal parallel coil. 4 wraps around a 2.5mm rod wicked with 3mm RXW. Comes in around .45 and is great. All in an RM2.

I vape around 1.2 with my RM2, .45 must be really warm in such a small atty?

 

[Rule62]

I vape around 1.2 with my RM2, .45 must be really warm in such a small atty?

It's all about air flow and wicking. Bear in mind, even the Subtanks, that are popular today often run .5 ohm coils, and the chambers are even smaller than our smaller attys, like the RM2. But they have adequate air flow, and sufficient wicking ability.

 

[Un5tab1e]

I'm pretty much the same as far as juices go, Rule.

I have also pretty much nailed my favorite coil, which is a 28ga Kanthal parallel coil. 4 wraps around a 2.5mm rod wicked with 3mm RXW. Comes in around .45 and is great. All in an RM2.

So 2.5 is the magic number for my 3mm rxw...

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

 

[Papa_Lazarou]

These days, I'm running quite a range of build setups - dual 26g in a vector and a velocity mini, dual 30g in a thump, single twisted 26g in a nup', single twisted 28g in a graal, matrix, and viper. Each setup has a different set of qualities - part the wire/coils, part the atty (chamber and air), part the dt used, and part the juice involved.

Most definitely, each has its own character and it can take some time to find that perfect alignment of all these variable. I also find one of the biggest variables to be... me. I'm a vastly different vaper in each of these scenarios:

* pre-tea morning
* morning commute
* peri-lunch
* shank of an intense business afternoon
* afternoons doing yardwork
* evening commute
* peri-dinner
* evening reading or watching movies
* "no, no... it's okay... I can handle my tequila" evenings out

If someone asked me what I liked to vape, I'd have to say "well, I can narrow it down to 4 on a typical day".

 

[Un5tab1e]

I've found decent vapes on my Hellboy,Velocity,RM2 and cyclone. I've found a great vape on my Doge v2 with parallel. The one atty I have that I just can't get to vape well is my origen v2

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[jifjifjif]

I vape around 1.2 with my RM2, .45 must be really warm in such a small atty?

I guess it would typically be, but I've opened my air hole 2 drill bit sizes.

So 2.5 is the magic number for my 3mm rxw...


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Indeed. Or, the shaft of a Q-Tip is perfect and just rigid enough to wrap on.

 

[Un5tab1e]

I guess it would typically be, but I've opened my air hole 2 drill bit sizes.



Indeed. Or, the shaft of a Q-Tip is perfect and just rigid enough to wrap on.

Danka..I'll try that later.

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[Spydro]

These days, I'm running quite a range of build setups - dual 26g in a vector and a velocity mini, dual 30g in a thump, single twisted 26g in a nup', single twisted 28g in a graal, matrix, and viper. Each setup has a different set of qualities - part the wire/coils, part the atty (chamber and air), part the dt used, and part the juice involved.

Most definitely, each has its own character and it can take some time to find that perfect alignment of all these variable. I also find one of the biggest variables to be... me. I'm a vastly different vaper in each of these scenarios:

* pre-tea morning
* morning commute
* peri-lunch
* shank of an intense business afternoon
* afternoons doing yardwork
* evening commute
* peri-dinner
* evening reading or watching movies
* "no, no... it's okay... I can handle my tequila" evenings out

If someone asked me what I liked to vape, I'd have to say "well, I can narrow it down to 4 on a typical day".

Really agree that there are lots of variables Papa. Their priorities obviously vary from vaper to vaper though. I build to the joose itself in each model of atty I run it in as top priority to get the flavor nuances I want from that joose. Why I have multiple builds for each of the liquids I call ADV's instead of just one or two or three builds for any atty with any liquid that some folks are happy with. How a joose reacts when the variables of the gear itself is tossed in the mix can differ considerably, so my ideal builds match up the joose to the particular gear it is in. I also run each of my ADV's in different model atty's to add variety to them instead of changing or diluting their recipes. And they are dedicated to those Reos/atty's/builds until I need gear for a new joose or build I want to try in it. It took some learning over the years, and T&E, but the rewards have been worth the effort to find what I like for any ADV I will always vape.

I keep my "vape schedule" very simple like I keep my life now. Whatever the whim is at the moment 24/7/365 dictates which Reos, atty's and ADV's I rotate for only as long as it takes for the whims to change. In part why I bought so many Reos/atty's and keep them all ready for action on a moments notice. I am however pruning down to fewer ADV's, weeding out the ones I can live without to make this all even simpler with less gear to feed and maintain, less clutter, etc. My computer desk/hutch could really use some real estate back for other things... like actually being a desk. When I retired 25 years ago golfing 18-27-36 holes 8 days a week made me a slave to it until I said enough. I haven't played a single round of golf for 17 years even though I still have the 2 best of the 8 sets of clubs I had and a cart. Vaping is my master now, by keeping it simpler it's not going to burn me out like the golf did. The Reos help in that far better than any of the many other mods I bought. Cutting back on ADV's that I already have the gear/builds for are is as well.

 

[plewm]

so my first RDA capable of dual coils has arrived - the Aeolus.

having only ever used single in the past, are there any tricks to dual besides that both coils need to be as similar as possible so that they fire evenly? will a jig like the coil master make dual coils much easier to perfect?

 

[Papa_Lazarou]

so my first RDA capable of dual coils has arrived - the Aeolus.

having only ever used single in the past, are there any tricks to dual besides that both coils need to be as similar as possible so that they fire evenly? will a jig like the coil master make dual coils much easier to perfect?

Your atty has a 'standard' 3 post build deck with reasonably sized wire trap holes, so building is quite straight forward. Here are some thoughts/tips...

* Coils should be identical - same wire, same # of wraps, same ID.

* You want to mount the coils using the same leg lengths when installed (i.e., they need to be identical once mounted, not just once wrapped). Differences in leg lengths can result in asymmetrical firing.

* Watch that the wires going through the center post have equal connection with the screw. Ideally, you want to avoid the wires crossing, and you certainly don't want one under the screw and one off to the side.

* Wicks should be identical, too.

* Do you Ohms Law calcs before building. You're going to be building a parallel connection, so the net resistance will be half of the value for one of the coils.

* The coil master is a very good tool to ensure coil consistency, but really it's just about counting wraps and watching the leg lengths. It would be pretty hard to mess up getting two nearly identical coils as long as you used the same wrapping tool and technique.

 

[SteamStack]

Yes a coilmaster is a perfect idea to make exact dual coils. In the mean time make your coils identical as you can.. same diameter and same amount of wraps.

Remember whatever ya did before will now be half the ohms in a dual Configuration. So if you made 1ohm coils, double them up and now it's .5 ohms total. The ohms is cut in half when you go dual coils.

I like 2x 2ohm coils for 1ohm total.

Keep the coils close to the air holes and centered to the hole or I like slightly higher then the hole.

 

[plewm]

These days, I'm running quite a range of build setups - dual 26g in a vector and a velocity mini, dual 30g in a thump, single twisted 26g in a nup', single twisted 28g in a graal, matrix, and viper. Each setup has a different set of qualities - part the wire/coils, part the atty (chamber and air), part the dt used, and part the juice involved.

Most definitely, each has its own character and it can take some time to find that perfect alignment of all these variable. I also find one of the biggest variables to be... me. I'm a vastly different vaper in each of these scenarios:

* pre-tea morning
* morning commute
* peri-lunch
* shank of an intense business afternoon
* afternoons doing yardwork
* evening commute
* peri-dinner
* evening reading or watching movies
* "no, no... it's okay... I can handle my tequila" evenings out

If someone asked me what I liked to vape, I'd have to say "well, I can narrow it down to 4 on a typical day".

does one have to literally experiment with multiple configurations to find changes in vape quality?

obviously juice is a huge variable, and for me personally that's the one that's relatively easy to change. but coil configuration just blows my mind. how the hell do you know without actually trying what would be good? it would take me a year to build each of the variations.

i wish i knew where to find some actual info and rules surrounding the different configurations. i'm aware of some rules of thumb when building, but every "review" i hear just reveals the same thing: "great flavor and vapor, try this build!"

@Papa_Lazarou, if someone blindfolded you, put the exact same juice and drip tip in each of your setups, adjusted air flows to be as similar as possible, would you be able to tell which is which?

 

[plewm]

Your atty has a 'standard' 3 post build deck with reasonably sized wire trap holes, so building is quite straight forward. Here are some thoughts/tips...

* Coils should be identical - same wire, same # of wraps, same ID.

* You want to mount the coils using the same leg lengths when installed (i.e., they need to be identical once mounted, not just once wrapped). Differences in leg lengths can result in asymmetrical firing.

* Watch that the wires going through the center post have equal connection with the screw. Ideally, you want to avoid the wires crossing, and you certainly don't want one under the screw and one off to the side.

* Wicks should be identical, too.

* Do you Ohms Law calcs before building. You're going to be building a parallel connection, so the net resistance will be half of the value for one of the coils.

* The coil master is a very good tool to ensure coil consistency, but really it's just about counting wraps and watching the leg lengths. It would be pretty hard to mess up getting two nearly identical coils as long as you used the same wrapping tool and technique.

thanks so much! just what i needed to know.

 

[SteamStack]

Start at the ohms your used to but just double it so it comes out the same.

So if your at 1 ohm build 2 2ohm coils. If it's .70 ohms build 2x 1.5ohm coils.

I've tried 2 1ohm coils at .5ohm total and it's too much for me and I normally build at 1 ohm for single back when.

If it takes too long to heat up drop the wire diameter a size or 2. So if your at 28 gauge try 29 or 30 gauge for an example.