"Sleeper Coil" vs. Two Separate Wires?

[CRW78]

I just don't see any real performance advantage when the only real difference is having two wires attached to the center post, realistically there's plenty of contact with two wires anyway.

Obviously there are other advantages like easier install with small post holes and slightly less wire used etc, but the performance claims are puzzling.

If I had 2 identical attys I would run a dual and dual sleeper using the same wire, wraps, etc. I've seen it myself though; it does fire faster. **shrug** I don't have the expertise to explain how it works better or why. I would imagine the same principle using parallel vs single wire? If that were the case though, there'd be a problem since 2 wires touch in parallel too.. another **shrug**
In closing, I've proven I'm still an idiot with this very post, yet will continue to use what I see works best regardless of whether or not I can possibly explain it!!

 

[CRW78]

ok. To put some "proof in the pudding", pictured is about an hour worth of work. Lol! The first pic is a dual parallel build using 26g Nichrome 5 (10) wrap on a qtip. This ohms out at .09.
The second build is a dual parallel sleeper using the same wire, wraps, and qtip, ohms out at .07.
This proof enough that the sleeper is possibly a better option?

 

[st0nedpenguin]

With a resistance that low something as simple as having a fraction of a mm longer leg on one build could account for the difference in resistance.

 

[CRW78]

With a resistance that low something as simple as having a fraction of a mm longer leg on one build could account for the difference in resistance.

And if a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his rear when he hops!! Lol!!

Seriously though, I think that fraction of a mm difference would fall more in the "possible but not probable" lane.. I cut them all in the same spot when trimming the leads; flush with the post! 2 wires touching vs 4 wires touching could also lead to that drop in resistance. Or 2 wires vs 1 wire. I'd do a simple dual sleeper but this is actually vaping like a beast right now and I'm digging the 1 second draw clouds. Lol

 

[GostDog]

And if a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his rear when he hops!! Lol!!

Seriously though, I think that fraction of a mm difference would fall more in the "possible but not probable" lane.. I cut them all in the same spot when trimming the leads; flush with the post! 2 wires touching vs 4 wires touching could also lead to that drop in resistance. Or 2 wires vs 1 wire. I'd do a simple dual sleeper but this is actually vaping like a beast right now and I'm digging the 1 second draw clouds. Lol

The issue is not were you cut... its the LEG distance... from POST to COIL... that will affect resistance...

Now having said that... if you build 2 coils with 2 wire... and the leg distance are NOT the exact same... one will fire a little earlier right?!
Well that is because of continuity at the post + leg distance...

In my own opinion, the sleeper coil advantage is optimal continuity at the post so the coils get power at the same time... and then its easier for me to have the same leg distance with a sleeper... so they always fire at the same time...

 

[wonkeypickle]

continue on with the beansaucery if you may, all one has to do is try it to see the advantages. Don't feel like trying it because it can't be explained by electrical theory? Sweet, hope you enjoy your build.

 

[Froth]

With a resistance that low something as simple as having a fraction of a mm longer leg on one build could account for the difference in resistance.

The issue is not were you cut... its the LEG distance... from POST to COIL... that will affect resistance...

Now having said that... if you build 2 coils with 2 wire... and the leg distance are NOT the exact same... one will fire a little earlier right?!
Well that is because of continuity at the post + leg distance...

In my own opinion, the sleeper coil advantage is optimal continuity at the post so the coils get power at the same time... and then its easier for me to have the same leg distance with a sleeper... so they always fire at the same time...

26g Nichrome 80 is ~2.6 ohms/foot. Breaking that down, it's .21 ohms per inch and .008 ohms per mm so a fraction of a MM would not be anywhere close to enough to change the resistance by .02 It would have to be a difference of over 2mm in leg length to equate to a .02 difference. The human eye can easily discern 2mm when there are things to compare it to nearby.

 

[GostDog]

26g Nichrome 80 is ~2.6 ohms/foot. Breaking that down, it's .21 ohms per inch and .008 ohms per mm so a fraction of a MM would not be anywhere close to enough to change the resistance by .02 It would have to be a difference of over 2mm in leg length to equate to a .02 difference. The human eye can easily discern 2mm when there are things to compare it to nearby.

Agreed, except it would be 1mm per leg... which could be mistaken by human eyes.

BTW, I wasn't saying that the leg distance is the reason why the 2 setup picture show different Ohm reading.

I was just explaining the difference between dual and sleeper and its advantage.

 

[AquaLung22]

Ok I haven't tried a sleeper build yet but this is my guess:
.... when you screw down the positive post for a regular dual-coil, the screw/post may be making better connection with one of the wires than it is the other. One of the wires might be slightly above the other (inside the post), or maybe the screw could be pressing one of the wires harder or touching more of it.
..With a sleeper, there's only 1 wire that has to make a connection to that post, for both coils. Could this make sense?

And I have a question.. I mainly build on my Helios, which has 2 positive posts. Would building a sleeper on this be pointless and impossible unless doing a quad(+) build? I'd probably never do a quad

 

[SLIPPY_EEL]

Ok I haven't tried a sleeper build yet but this is my guess:
.... when you screw down the positive post for a regular dual-coil, the screw/post may be making better connection with one of the wires than it is the other. One of the wires might be slightly above the other (inside the post), or maybe the screw could be pressing one of the wires harder or touching more of it.
..With a sleeper, there's only 1 wire that has to make a connection to that post, for both coils. Could this make sense?

And I have a question.. I mainly build on my Helios, which has 2 positive posts. Would building a sleeper on this be pointless and impossible unless doing a quad(+) build? I'd probably never do a quad

yeah i'd imagine it's pointless really as you would end up with one side of a dual having less wire as regards to where the +post holes are, as you would only be using one hole.
or you could spin the T-post and have both duals on one side of the deck, then you would have equal coil's.

 

[kickflipsnnollies]

This is way too much argument for a 20 milliohm difference, lol.

This CAN be explained in numbers. I don't know enough to do it, but these things aren't complicated.

Personally the only reasons I would use a sleeper is 1) to show off and 2) to use larger wire through the same post hole.

 

[ProjektMayhem]

I've attempted a sleeper build but got frustrated.It's a small space to work with and I don't like spending 30 minutes building coils when I can do 2 coils with 2 pieces of wire.

 

[cwoodnola]

It depends on the ATTY for me. I find the sleeper works great and is easy to build on my Mephisto but harder to build on my TOBH the air flow walls get in the way while building. I saw a technique for building the sleeper yesterday that I am going to try. The first coil is easy to build pretty much like any other coil. For the second coil instead of starting close to the post leave enough wire, about to the edge of the atty. Make a couple of tight wraps on your screwdriver or drill bit whatever you use then roll the screwdriver or drill bit using the slack you left when you fished the wire through the positive post for the last couple of wraps.

 

[Heespharm]

It depends on the ATTY for me. I find the sleeper works great and is easy to build on my Mephisto but harder to build on my TOBH the air flow walls get in the way while building. I saw a technique for building the sleeper yesterday that I am going to try. The first coil is easy to build pretty much like any other coil. For the second coil instead of starting close to the post leave enough wire, about to the edge of the atty. Make a couple of tight wraps on your screwdriver or drill bit whatever you use then roll the screwdriver or drill bit using the slack you left when you fished the wire through the positive post for the last couple of wraps.

That's how I always do sleeper coils just don't lose track of wraps


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CloudZ]

I built a sleeper on my IGO W a few months ago, it was a pita and wasn't any different than 2 separate wires, even though it turned out perfect. As long as the screws are nice and tight there is absolutely no reason why it would be any different. I have yet to see any proof. Riptripper is funny and entertaining but he doesn't always preach absolute truths.

For the poster who showed the resistance pictures, thank you for the effort but you wrapped the coils on a spongy rolled paper post of a q tip. A slight difference in tension will change the diameter of the coil. If you wrapped the sleeper 2nd, the q tip would be mashed smaller and also result in a smaller coil. Also you should wrap a realistic resistance one might actually vape.

Back to my beer...

 

[mcleftnut]

also if you got a RDA with a positive block, sleeper coils are a lot easier if your building a quad coil setup.
I got a busted smok caterpillar with only two posts and I use a sleeper setup and its a lot better then jamming two strands in there

 

[Siochanai]

The general Idea with sleeper coils I find as I love sleepers makes it super easy to build dual coils on a veritas due to the design so I always run sleepers when I run my veritas dual coil. The sleeper coil typically makes it easier to get the coils to heat up together rather then a slight delay on the second coil. I find they fire up a tad slower then 2 single coils but they heat up together instead of the second coil slightly lagging behind. Not sure if anyone watched Rip's video on sleepers but I believe if I remember correctly he explains why they perform so well. they are really not that hard to build once you get the hang of it I can build them on my veritas much faster then building 2 singles and trying to get them on that threaded pos post and then vertical lined up and not shorted.

Recently however I have been running a single vertical parallel coil at about 0.6 man it can chuck the vape out of this veritas. Gunna try a dual parallel sleeper when I get my Dark Horse.

Just explaining my observations with them on a Veritas due to it being much easier to build sleepers on it due to design not claiming scientific truth so take with salt.

 

[ddkl7780]

I think they perform better fire evenly and its not a big pain once youve built them a few times. Im rockin one now on my tobh

 

[wonkeypickle]

using the advanced HUMAN™ brand optical receptors, i have been able to determine that in the "sleeper coil" configuration, both coils do in fact light up faster than with a traditional dual coil setup.



ladies and gentlemen, i do believe that despite the absence of bill nye in this study, we can finally call this myth:



BUSTED.

 

[KenRob316]

NEver been able to get a sleeper down, just to small of a space to work with for me.

I can't seem to get the hang of it either. I wasted about 10ft of 24g and two and a half hours trying to get it right.