So, metal is a really good conductor right...

[Dzaw]

Yeah, metal. I love the stuff. It's a really great conductor. That's good, because I'm really digging my mechanical mods, and they completely operate based on that. So, yeah, there's that.

But metals, well, they have a problem with conductivity. The ones that are good at conducting electricity, well, y'know what else they conduct pretty well? Heat.

I have a problem. It's been bothering me for some time now, but more so since I built my newest coils. Being stuck at 3.5-4.2 volts (I generally tend to change my batt at around 3.5) I find a relatively lower resistance to be most satisfying. I'm digging my latest build, right at 4.2 (both calculated and measured, though at room temp).

This has made the heat problem that's bothered me for some time bad enough that I need to stop and ask. I don't mind (and actually enjoy) the hotter vapor. I can handle my drip tip getting warm. What's freaking me out, though, is my whole mod getting warm, and through it... My precious battery.

I've been tracking this issue with this mod and this atty for months. I've tested several times, to the point of complete disassembly. The drip tip and atty cap are by far and away the hottest, but the mod itself does start to get warm. To the point where the heat bleeds all the way down to the button. By the time the button is starting to get warm, the drip tip is uncomfortable to my lips. At that point, I tend to take the batt out, to be sure it's not the battery's fault. Usually, the battery is warm to the touch, but not hot like the atty cap. The mod body seems to be warmer than the battery, but only by a little.

This -seems- to me to be the heat from the atty bleeding down through the nicely conductive metal mod, and warming the battery inside that perfect little oven.

How warm shouldn't I let my battery get? As far as I remember, heat is definitely enemy #1 for batteries. Is there something else I should do to be sure my batteries aren't the problem? I'm pushing the envelope on my least capable batts a wee bit, but my VTC4's seem to be every bit as prone to this issue as my old efest 2000 mAh 10 amp batts. I'm sure as heck not pushing those sony's anywhere near their rating.

 

[Unforeseen]

Moved to APV Discussion - Mech Mods

* Please note the ohms of your atomizer, as that may be causing significant stress to your battery. This will help others pinpoint the exact problem/problems your experiencing at this time.

 

[edyle]

Yeah, metal. I love the stuff. It's a really great conductor. That's good, because I'm really digging my mechanical mods, and they completely operate based on that. So, yeah, there's that.

But metals, well, they have a problem with conductivity. The ones that are good at conducting electricity, well, y'know what else they conduct pretty well? Heat.

I have a problem. It's been bothering me for some time now, but more so since I built my newest coils. Being stuck at 3.5-4.2 volts (I generally tend to change my batt at around 3.5) I find a relatively lower resistance to be most satisfying. I'm digging my latest build, right at 4.2 (both calculated and measured, though at room temp).

This has made the heat problem that's bothered me for some time bad enough that I need to stop and ask. I don't mind (and actually enjoy) the hotter vapor. I can handle my drip tip getting warm. What's freaking me out, though, is my whole mod getting warm, and through it... My precious battery.

I've been tracking this issue with this mod and this atty for months. I've tested several times, to the point of complete disassembly. The drip tip and atty cap are by far and away the hottest, but the mod itself does start to get warm. To the point where the heat bleeds all the way down to the button. By the time the button is starting to get warm, the drip tip is uncomfortable to my lips. At that point, I tend to take the batt out, to be sure it's not the battery's fault. Usually, the battery is warm to the touch, but not hot like the atty cap. The mod body seems to be warmer than the battery, but only by a little.

This -seems- to me to be the heat from the atty bleeding down through the nicely conductive metal mod, and warming the battery inside that perfect little oven.

How warm shouldn't I let my battery get? As far as I remember, heat is definitely enemy #1 for batteries. Is there something else I should do to be sure my batteries aren't the problem? I'm pushing the envelope on my least capable batts a wee bit, but my VTC4's seem to be every bit as prone to this issue as my old efest 2000 mAh 10 amp batts. I'm sure as heck not pushing those sony's anywhere near their rating.

That's what these are for:

https://www.fasttech.com/products/3023/10010809/1999301

 

[Dzaw]

Atty at 0.45 ohms, batts capable of 10 amps ( or 30 for the sony) . However, this was the case even when my build was at 0.9 ohms.

Like I said, I'm kinda pushing the envelope for my 10 amp batts, but not at all for the sony vtc4's.

Thanks, Edyle, I've not seen those. That's a pretty nifty idea, but it's kinda fugly. I don't mind letting things get warm if the only downside is warmth. Am I dealing with a level of heat that's likely to be problematic for my batteries, or am I just being a little too cautious?

 

[wskinner]

So yeah, a .45 ohm build shouldn't be heating up your atty so much that you feel heat from it at the bottom button of your mod. I run my SMPL+Silverplay at around .3 most of the time, and even chain vaping I don't feel much heat if any even at the top of the mod. The only time I've felt heat in a mod at any level was when my brass Praxis got a little too tarnished around it's button, creating resistance If you are getting uncomfortable amounts of heat running through your mod at that ohm level, you probably have a bad connection somewhere in your mod. It could be a design problem with your particular mod, I guess, but first I would break the whole thing down and look for any points of contact that have corrosion/tarnish on them, and polish the heck out of those spots.

One thing that concerns me is you state you started seeing the problem more with your most recent coils. Have you confirmed with a multi-meter that the build actually is .45 or are you going with what steam engine shows it should be? Did you make sure to get rid of all hot spots by dry-firing and pinching the coils together before wicking? How do you build your coils? (wire gauge, # of wraps, ID, etc.) Also, if you noticed it being worse when changing coils, make sure you have your atty screws tightened down well to the wire and they haven't backed out - again, if there is bad connection there (or worse, somehow corrosion or buildup on your contact points - you don't want to vape that), you can have more heat build up due to the bad connection.

The main worry I'd have, especially with the 10 amp battery, is that if your mod is getting hot due to a bad connection creating resistance, it's completely possible that your setup is actually draining more amps than the mathematically calculated pull for the coil using ohm's law. Think about it this way - the whole mod, not just the coil, is your circuit, and if you are getting heat in the mod, it means it is pulling not just the power to heat your coil, but also whatever amount of power needed to heat the mod at the resistance point. You're riding really close to the limit of that 10 amp battery just with your coils, and so any extra pull on the battery could easily put you into a dangerous place. Until you get this heat problem figured out, I'd say stick to the VTCs.

Sorry if I'm covering bases you've already considered. I just want to make sure we're all keeping it safe!

 

[Tagi]

Another thing I have notices is the larger gauge wires stay hot longer after letting go of the button. This tends to accelerate the atty becoming heat soaked. You did not mention all the details of your build. More that just the ohms will effect how fast the atty becomes heat soaked. the number of coils, airflow, wire gauge, and how close they are to the cap wall will effect the atty.

Try paralleling 4 strands of 28. It will heat up and cool down fast, provide a good warm vape, and slow down the heat soak, yet still produce.

 

[Dzaw]

Ok, 4/3 wrap on a 7/32 inch bit dual coil, 28 gauge, with fairly long legs. The calculator I used said it should run .42, but the resistance checker says .45. I no longer own a multimeter, but that's getting rectified in the near future.

The atty is an igo w5 and it's screwed into a fasttech brass nemesis clone. I've been vaping this combination with various iterations of build on the deck for almost a year.

I've tried polishing the tar out of every place metal touches metal, heck metal polishing is something of a specialty of mine, I used to make knives and I loved having a glassy looking liquid mirror finish on my steel.

The warmth (I hesitate to call it heat, though that is technically correct, the word heat implies higher temperature than I am actually experiencing) that has me somewhat concerned doesn't show up at all unless I'm sucking on the thing like a pacifier. I don't just mean chaining, but chaining for an extended period. I typically suck through 20 is ml a day, and that was with my .9 ohm build.

Maybe it's a sign I should just put the mod down. For a few minutes, at least.

 

[edyle]

Ok, 4/3 wrap on a 7/32 inch bit dual coil, 28 gauge, with fairly long legs. The calculator I used said it should run .42, but the resistance checker says .45. I no longer own a multimeter, but that's getting rectified in the near future.

I've tried polishing the tar out of every place metal touches metal, heck metal polishing is something of a specialty of mine, I used to make knives and I loved having a glassy looking liquid mirror finish on my steel.

The warmth (I hesitate to call it heat, though that is technically correct, the word heat implies higher temperature than I am actually experiencing) that has me somewhat concerned doesn't show up at all unless I'm sucking on the thing like a pacifier. I don't just mean chaining, but chaining for an extended period. I typically suck through 20 is ml a day, and that was with my .9 ohm build.

Maybe it's a sign I should just put the mod down. For a few minutes, at least.

A little warmth while chain vaping is just a norm, and I don't even use less than one ohm

Alternating between two setups is a convenient solution

 

[wskinner]

Holy wow! 20 mils a day? Man, even working at home, and keeping my mod at my side almost all day (and with a lower ohm build for higher vapor volume) I barely crack 7-8 mils a day. Yeah, you might not have anything wrong with your build. You might just vape a lot.

I will say, I've never built a coil with an ID as large as 7/32. I tend to build around 3/32 on most things (including drippers). I'd think that large of a diameter would require you to stuff a >ton< of cotton in there to keep the wire cool. Is it possible that you just have some parts of your coils without wick touching them, and the coil is getting hot spots as a result from lack of adequate liquid cooling?

 

[Dzaw]

Yeah, 15-20 ish, 20 may be a bit on the outside, but a 30 ml bottle doesn't do 2 days.

it -is- possible I've got a bit of coil without cotton in it, but I try and stuff the coils pretty good. This was a purely experimental build, and is noticibly larger diameter than I've ever built before.

I gotta say, though, I'm definitely digging it - I've got my TH back just a bit (down to 1mg juice, and have been missing that) and while the vapor is a little thicker than I would have thought ideal (not even the remotest chance I can stealth now), the flavor is there in spades.

 

[duc916]

I wouldn't worry too much about an 18650 getting warm... they get warm in these too:

What Goes Into A Tesla Model S Battery--And What It May Cost

 

[CloudKick]

As an electrical engineer, conductivity has a couple characteristics you should be aware of. If there is no short or bad connection in your setup, then be aware that some metals used in Vape manufacturing conduct better than others. Heat from the at Atty and the battery is commonplace. Now if a metal heats up faster than another, that metal will cool faster than the other. If a metal takes a bit to heat up, it will take a while to cool as well. Personally I like mods that have a balance because I've heated up both types. Some once heated will take forever to cool, and vice versa. ALL setups have the potential to get hot.