Some Noobie Questions

[rrcottin]

I am new to vaping (last week or so) and, after over 30 years of heavy smoking, have not had a analog in about three days. I didn't really quit. I just havn't wanted one for the first time in decades. A real game changer for me! And, I learned everything I know (not much yet I must admit) lurking on these wonderful forums. I had a few questions I was hoping I might be able to get some input on:

1) I unsuccessfully tried a rather terrible mall brand a year ago (if only I had known about these forums). This time, I started with a pair of the Joye Ego-C Twist battery (1000 mAh) and the Joye Ego-C (Type B) Atomizer. There was just so much information here that, I decided to just take the jump with one manufacturer. I have been very happy with them. But, I notice that many folks recommend the Boge LR cartos/attys. What is the real difference between the Joye and Boge here?

2) My twists have been great so far but, I notice people really seem to like the Provari. Again, what is the real difference between Joye and Provari here?

3) Of course, I started with tobacco flavor (I would have sworn I liked the taste of tobacco) but, I have found I prefer Coffee. So, I am really looking forward to trying some other flavors. I initially ordered some Chinese PG-based liquids. I have now ordered some 70/30 PG/VG liquids from BWB. Will a 70/30 mix perform well in the Joye atomizer?

4) Is anyone aware of any research out there on biological half-life, health effects and such of vaporized PG and VG. I was a PhD student in biochemistry a few lifetimes ago. While I am not especially concerned about either substance (not concerned at all about PG to be honest), I have a gut suspicion that PG might be safer than VG as I would expect less of the carrier to remain in the lungs. But, this is just a baseless guess. So, I was looking for the research mainly as a subject of intellectual curiosity. I am 100% positive that both are a heck of a lot safer than the thousands of known and unknown chemicals in analogs. I did find Kahn and Siegels article in JPHP (Electronic cigarettes as a harm reduction strategy for tobacco control: A step forward or a repeat of past mistakes?) fascinating (and depressing) but, it doesn't get down to the nuts and bolts of elimination. Even the references didn't (Ok... the references I was willing to check before I got lazy).

5) Is CASAA (I joined yesterday) really the only group supporting vaping from a medical and public policy perspective? I just find it inconceivable that the American Cancer Society, American Lung Association and American Heart Association are supporting the removal of these products form the American market. It appears to be a clear case of maleficence to me. Does the AMA or ADA have a position? I see some long and angry chats with my friends in the medical community on the horizon (like I really need something else to be annoyed with... sigh).

Well, any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for all the great information in these forums.

-Robert

 

[onizuka]

Robert, welcome to the forum.

AFAIK, PG/VG effects are still unknown, at least the long term effects - so I wouldn't say this is completely safe (this goes against popular beliefs on this forum and others, which really saddens me). We are inhaling a substance into our lungs that doesn't occur naturally, which means, it probably isn't 100% safe. Second, hot vapor just like hot cigarette smoke or a hot cup of any liquid to the lungs is damaging. I'm sure you knew that though . I can say however, that this is probably safer than actual cigarettes. Furthermore, the amazing selection of flavors is appealing and I get my fix from the heavy clouds of smoke I'm exhaling.

I would love to know what your colleagues think and if there are any studies on what settles in the lungs as a result of vaping.

 

[tsk138]

I started with a couple 1000 mAh Twists and moved up to a Provari V2 recently.
I'm sure people will give you plenty of technical and anecdotal reasons why the Provari is better but for me it's mainly 2 reasons. The vape is consistant every time and with an 18650 battery it lasts me longer than the 1000 mAh twist.
I also really like being able to check the ohms of the atty/clearo/cart/whatever is on the Provari since I tend to have quite a few different types.
The Twist with a LR clearo or cart is still a very good vape and I use my twist right along side the Provari every day.

 

[rrcottin]

Thanks for the quick replies!

Onizuka:

I am certainly not pushing the position that vaping is safe. But, from a harm-reduction point of view, I just can't see how this is not a huge win when compared to analogs. According to the CDC, more deaths are caused each year by tobacco use than by all deaths from HIV, illegal drugs, alcohol, motor vehicles, suicides, and murders combined.

About 40% of these deaths are due to cancer which I suspect we all but eliminate through vaping. I am fairly confident in this conclusion based on the research I have read (although I sure do wish there was more research). I suppose the flavorings pose some risk but, I just don't see PG becoming a carcinogen any time soon!

Slightly less that 30% are cardiovascular in nature which, I am sad to say, I don't know enough about to intelligently comment on. But, since we are avoiding the free radicals that damage heart muscles and contribute to atherosclerosis (through reaction with cholesterol), I would have to assume the risk is reduced.

Slightly more than 30% come from respiratory issues. Again, as I am far more comfortable with biochemistry and genetics, I can't really comment with any authority on this. But, we are avoiding stuff like hydrogen cyanide (paralyzes lung cilia which help eliminate nasties in your lungs) and tar (I *think* this is the major contributor to aveoli damage but, I could be wrong). I just can't see how PG could could be worse.

tsk138:

That makes sense. I only have one type of atty. But, as you get more, I could see that being a nice feature. Thanks for the info.

 

[Wabbeln]

1) What is the real difference between the Joye and Boge here?

2) what is the real difference between Joye and Provari here?

3) Will a 70/30 mix perform well in the Joye atomizer?

4) Is anyone aware of any research out there on biological half-life,

5) Is CASAA (I joined yesterday) really the only group supporting vaping from a medical and public policy perspective?


-Robert

1. I started with the eGo-t, and the problem I had with it was leaking issues. The t and c are both atomizer/tank systems. Once I switched to the cartomizers, and learned the quirks about them, I was getting much more vapor, better throat hit, and better taste, IMHO. Cartomizers are less expensive which is also a plus.

2. The Provari is a high quality APV, and one that I hope to own eventually. The twist is much cheaper, cost wise, so it's a good starting VV pv. If the twist dies, you toss the battery and start over, instead of just replacing the battery.

3. 70/30 should work fine in the eGo-c tank. I believe that's what I was using before I switched to carto's.

4. Not sure.

5. Not sure, but I believe so.

Hope this helps.

 

[rrcottin]

Wabbeln,

I appreciate the info. So many terms to get used to! I am relieved to hear the 70/30 will work (really looking forward to new flavors).

Thanks! -Robert

 

[onizuka]

Thanks for the quick replies!

Onizuka:

I am certainly not pushing the position that vaping is safe. But, from a harm-reduction point of view, I just can't see how this is not a huge win when compared to analogs. According to the CDC, more deaths are caused each year by tobacco use than by all deaths from HIV, illegal drugs, alcohol, motor vehicles, suicides, and murders combined.

About 40% of these deaths are due to cancer which I suspect we all but eliminate through vaping. I am fairly confident in this conclusion based on the research I have read (although I sure do wish there was more research). I suppose the flavorings pose some risk but, I just don't see PG becoming a carcinogen any time soon!

Slightly less that 30% are cardiovascular in nature which, I am sad to say, I don't know enough about to intelligently comment on. But, since we are avoiding the free radicals that damage heart muscles and contribute to atherosclerosis (through reaction with cholesterol), I would have to assume the risk is reduced.

Slightly more than 30% come from respiratory issues. Again, as I am far more comfortable with biochemistry and genetics, I can't really comment with any authority on this. But, we are avoiding stuff like hydrogen cyanide (paralyzes lung cilia which help eliminate nasties in your lungs) and tar (I *think* this is the major contributor to aveoli damage but, I could be wrong). I just can't see how PG could could be worse.

I just re-read my post. I noticed I made a mistake, I meant lungs/esophagus (for the hot liquid / hot smoke). I totally agree that it isn't 100% safe, but I got onto my soap box about how some members feel they are no longer at risk for pulmonary ailments. Sorry if I confused you, hehe.

I completely agree with your post though, vaping is definitely a safer alternative as far as tar and other impurities in cigarette smoke are concerned.

 

[Yves]

Hello and Welcome to ECF
This section of the forums may help you with some of your questions.

Health, Safety and E-Smoking

I think this thread is very interesting.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...health-risk-benefits-e-cigs-yaniv-riz-md.html

 

[rrcottin]

Yves, Nice thread. Thanks for pointing that one out. -Robert

 

[rapala8]

newbie here too, thank you for this info...

 

[Vapoor eyes er]

But, I notice that many folks recommend the Boge LR cartos/attys. What is the real difference between the Joye and Boge here?

Boge is a very highly regarded manufacturer BUT some recently are unhappy with QC.

My twists have been great so far but, I notice people really seem to like the Provari. Again, what is the real difference between Joye and Provari here?

Battery life and quality are the main differences. Also the Twist is limited voltage wise.

I have now ordered some 70/30 PG/VG liquids from BWB. Will a 70/30 mix perform well in the Joye atomizer?

Juice Components
Flavoring usually about 15%
PG enhances flavor, TH and lung hit- water like
VG= vapor and can mute flavor- thick
Nicotine- TH, lung hit and our need for nicotine. The MOST important ingredient in regards to TH and lung hit.
Standards in the industry are 80/ 20 or 70/ 30 PG/ VG. I vape 70/ 30 PG/ VG.

Is anyone aware of any research out there on biological half-life, health effects and such of vaporized PG and VG.

Links provide3d by another member.

Is CASAA (I joined yesterday) really the only group supporting vaping from a medical and public policy perspective?

Good move. In the UK there is a trade org of vendors that support vaping. Also the Nudge Unit in the UK is supportive of vaping.

I just find it inconceivable that the American Cancer Society, American Lung Association and American Heart Association are supporting the removal of these products form the American market.

These are non profit orgs run by Fat Cats that consider their wallets and jobs first and foremost. You'd also be surprised at where much of their donations come from. I can make this statement as I've devoted many yrs of intense involvement with true non profit orgs and also have some friends that are employed by some of the larger non profits so I get to hear some fairly juicy stories in regards to the ethical side of things versus the $$ side. Short story is no lung disease= no salary/ jobs for many of these non profits.

Does the AMA or ADA have a position?

The American Assoc. of Physicians and Surgeons supports vaping and sees no risk vaping PG, VG and nicotine.

I see some long and angry chats with my friends in the medical community on the horizon

Gave a presentation to 43 health care professionals awhile ago- doctors, dentists, surgeons, naturopaths, etc...37 out of 43 said they would recommend patients try vaping if traditional smoking cessation methods were unsuccessful. There were also 2 politicians in attendance and although I've converted 3 of their family members they stated they could not publicly support vaping because of the BP and many other orgs opposition to it. Lots of $$ at risk here in many different areas.