Some thoughts on reactions to ecigs

[vappoem]

So I know this is my very first post, but I joined this forum after lurking for many days in order to share some idea. First, like a lot of you, I am very concerned about the government's reaction to e-cig. However, I would like to share some thoughts about why the anti-smoking crowd has so many concerns about e-cig. I share these thoughts in order to stimulate a discussion about further strategies everyone of can do to change the mindset towards are Pvs.

So, now I would like to present the following list of my own ideas in order to increase awareness about PV's:

1. I have a little bit of an issue with the name "e cigarette." As soon as people hear the word "cigarette" it seems that their mind automatically goes to images of Joe Camel being used to promote tobacco to minors and altered studies to change scientific fact about the dangers of smoking. Personally, I think it is about time we acknowledge this and use the term "PV" over "e cig." Furthermore, if you buy American made products, make sure you inform people that there are American products. Look, I don't want to seem unfair to China, but China's journey into capitalism hasn't been smooth. Right now, China is known as the country that got a bunch of dogs killed.

2. I'm also concerned about PV's that advertise their produce as something that lets one "smoke anywhere." First of all, it is misleading. If you are vaping, you are not smoking. Second, I think it makes people who don't understand PV's think that you are some how flaunting the law. If there is one thing people hate, it's people whom can find loop holes. We don't use these products to smoke, let's not call them "smoking everywhere" products.

3. If the anti-smoking group is going to play the "they're trying to hook kids on cigarettes card," let's not give them any fuel for the fire. What I mean by this, is that I think the PV industry and the PV users need to be vigilant in this process. Yes, I know. It is a ridiculous argument for politicians to say that e cigs are a ploy to bait children because they have flavors (as the politician orders another strawberry flavored alcoholic beverage), but unfortunately this is going to happen. And, unless you have had a degree of success with PV's, I think most of the general public believe this. So, what I would ask is, instead of getting rid of flavors, why not get rid of anything that can seem "kid-friendly." Any design, logo or even name that came be used against us needs to be reconsidered. If you have never looked at Johnson Creek's website, I'll ask you to do so. There is no way anyone under the age of 18 would stay on that page for longer than a minute.

4. This is my final point, but I really think it needs to be made. I am really upset when I google " e cigs' and see "e cigs for weed." Now, I am not here to judge anyone's lifestyle. I really don't care what you want to do, but I am concerned that lawmakers will pick up on this and ban PVs because they can be used to distribute narcotics. Now, some of you are probably thinking, "well you can use brownies to distribute narcotics and no one is trying to ban them." Keep in mind, everyone knows what a brownie is all ready. A lot of people don't understand a PV.

5. I am sick of always hearing about the FDA's study in every news report. I ask PVers to start pointing out problems with this study as soon as you see it is quoted.

I am sorry to create such a long post, but I really think this issue is of the upmost importance. I'm always surprised that we are fighting a ban. To be honest, what I would think should happen is our government should be issuing vouchers for smokers to purchase PVs. But it is what it is. I just can't
keep silent any longer while misinformation runs rampant. For the first time in my life, not only can I see a future without cigarettes, but I can envision a future of hope for my health.

 

[Zero Deception]

The reason they call them e-cigarettes or digital cigs as I call them is to draw current analog smokers over to switching to this newer, possibly safer way to get your nicotine fix. Let me ask you a question though in regards to lets say weed. If I was using a vaporizer to heat my weed or hemp oil if you want to use a liquid form like e-liquid nicotine and I am getting high doing this does that make a difference in the act of smoking or vaping It? As far as I am concerned the pv should be treated the same way as an analog cigarette. Lets face It, the jury is still out as to whether or not vaping a pv is dangerous or not especially with all the modding going on experimenting with different liquids, flavorings, colorings and fillers. I find it amusing how so many people say that "Oh my God, I finally quit smoking with an e-cig yippy!" This statement is ridiculous because all that happened was the person switched the nicotine delivery method. Instead of being addicted to analogs they are now addicted to digital pv's. The ban is really just about money though and taxes. If you are a pv vapor user just stock up now tons of nicotine liquid and find a good way to preserve it and then get one of those wizardsticks. (sizzlingscience.co.uk/wizardstick) I can already see It now, a bunch of people walking around and driving toking on there wizard sticks.

 

[mistinthewoods]

vappoem, all of your points are good, lagitamate points and while they may have an effect on public perception I don't think that they have much to do with the reasons for the attempts to ban ecigs. This is driven by money. All of the groups behind the drive to influence legislators in this direction have something to lose by allowing something to exist that is such an effective anti smoking treatment. It's Big tobacco and pharmaceutical lobbyists using the anti-smoking groups as cover. If too many people quit smoking and start vaping (and the numbers are growing fast) big tobacco and pharma stand to lose a LOT of money as does the state governments in the form of "sin taxes" and the anti-smoking groups stand to lose they're very existence if nobodies smoking.

 

[kaboom]

Mist, while you are 100% right, the only way we'll be able to fight this is with sturdy, grounded, and massive numbers. This requires public awareness. A well-informed one.

I agree with the OP fully: however futile it might seem for every individual I take care to inform and use the correct terms with, it's still better to play small part in the solution than letting ignorance and profit win out by default through our defeatism.

 

[Jonmo1]

Here's my view...

The people trying to Ban Ecigs are...VERY VERY VERY rich and powerfull, and in high places.
That is an understatement.
It is driven by money. A ButLoad of money.
If they want it banned, it'll be banned. No matter what we do.
As soon as we answer one of their arguments, they'll just come up with 10 more.

The Ecig Industry has but 1 chance to remain legal
1. Public Awareness - Big time. The more people know about them, the better

We do not have to prove that they are safe. I think our best argument is this..
You'd have to be living on Mars to not know that Cigarettes are dangerous.
And yet they are still legal and FDA approved, killing 400,000 Americans (millions worldwide) per year.
So what if at some point down the road we find that Ecigs have some negative side effect. It can't be any worse than tobacco cigarettes.

I will agree that the Industry has to have some standards..
Don't market / sell to Kids or Non smokers.
Have some kind of warning labels (about Nicotine only)

That's about it.


Now for public awareness, who wants to organize a March to the White House??
I'd sign up.

 

[mistinthewoods]

Mist, while you are 100% right, the only way we'll be able to fight this is with sturdy, grounded, and massive numbers. This requires public awareness. A well-informed one.

I agree with the OP fully: however futile it might seem for every individual I take care to inform and use the correct terms with, it's still better to play small part in the solution than letting ignorance and profit win out by default through our defeatism.

Oh YEAH, you are absolutely right. This is a multi-faceted situation, albeit a stupid one. There's no sound reason that we SHOULD have to tip-toe around on these eggshells but I understand that we do.

 

[bl00ddr1nka]

vappoem, all of your points are good, lagitamate points and while they may have an effect on public perception I don't think that they have much to do with the reasons for the attempts to ban ecigs. This is driven by money. All of the groups behind the drive to influence legislators in this direction have something to lose by allowing something to exist that is such an effective anti smoking treatment. It's Big tobacco and pharmaceutical lobbyists using the anti-smoking groups as cover. If too many people quit smoking and start vaping (and the numbers are growing fast) big tobacco and pharma stand to lose a LOT of money as does the state governments in the form of "sin taxes" and the anti-smoking groups stand to lose they're very existence if nobodies smoking.

I completely agree with you that the big bad tobacco companies are using their money and resources to try to completelyt wipe out the pv industry. But while thinking this I have been asking myself why don't the cigarette companies give up and get with technology and design their own pv's. Every smoker has a specific brand of cigarette that they like best.. mine was marlboro(preferably menthol) and I know that if I saw a marlboro brand ecig on the market I would buy it just because of the brand name... just my opinion but I think the cigarette companies could make a lot of money if they just get with the new world.

 

[SirVette]

Many already use the term PV.
No offense intended to those using the slang terms digital LOL & analog LOL.That's very inaccurate & too funny for words! This is a great forum, but using "analog" for cigs. LOL You guys really need to consider how (hate to say this, but somebody must) stupid that sounds to guys new to the forum that know the diff. between digital & analog.
PV & cig. makes sense. It would seem the more the public knows about PV the better as many don't know about them.

 

[mistinthewoods]

I completely agree with you that the big bad tobacco companies are using their money and resources to try to completelyt wipe out the pv industry. But while thinking this I have been asking myself why don't the cigarette companies give up and get with technology and design their own pv's. Every smoker has a specific brand of cigarette that they like best.. mine was marlboro(preferably menthol) and I know that if I saw a marlboro brand ecig on the market I would buy it just because of the brand name... just my opinion but I think the cigarette companies could make a lot of money if they just get with the new world.

Actually I found a thread a week ago or so, I think it was in the campaigning area somewhere, that showed a patent form with drawings of a device identical to a standard ecig. The patent is held by Philip Morris. I wish I would have bookmarked it. Wonder when that shoe will drop and I wonder how hard it will hit the floor.

 

[bl00ddr1nka]

Actually I found a thread a week ago or so, I think it was in the campaigning area somewhere, that showed a patent form with drawings of a device identical to a standard ecig. The patent is held by Philip Morris. I wish I would have bookmarked it. Wonder when that shoe will drop and I wonder how hard it will hit the floor.

Nice.. I'm glad to hear that I'm not the first to think that its a good idea.. I mean it a nobrainer... the world is changing ..either change with it or get left behind.

 

[Jonmo1]

Read post #20 in this thread. Says it all about why BT will not get into Ecigs.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...obacco-industries-picking-up-e-smoking-2.html

 

[mistinthewoods]

Yeah, I hope it's "nice" and not that P-M will use it to gain control of the market and screw this thing up.

 

[Shortstuff116]

I agree with vappoem fully. I have also been saying the exact same thing for a very long time, that there really is little to compare cigarettes to PV's. The only similarity is the delivery of nicotine. Every single time someone asks me about my PV the first thing I tell them that it is "advertised" as an electronic-cigarette, but it has no relationship to a cigarette. Any reference to a cigarette is just plain not true. A cigarette is a tobacco product wrapped in paper and burned, PV's have none of that.

You've got to look at the actual definition of "smoking":

Britannica Concise Encyclopedia: Smoking

"Breathing the fumes of burning plant material, especially tobacco, from a cigarette, cigar, or pipe."

I did in fact quit smoking using my PV, as did thousands of other members here at ECF. How can you possibly say that this is a ridiculous statement? We no longer smoke cigarettes, therefore we quit smoking. Period. The only thing I did not stop was my inhalation of nicotine which in my eyes (and the eyes of many) is no different than my intake of caffeine on a daily basis.

And I agree that yes, 99% of the attempts to ban PV's has to do with two things: Money & Politics. This is something else that I have been preaching for a very long time, but the average person (smoker or non-smoker) either does not realize or refuses to believe that just about everything is driven by money & politics. All to many pull the "mightier than thou" attitude, that you are a lower class human because you are a smoker.

We all have to agree that we have to be realistic. We have to use common sense and a lot of discretion to make any progress at all towards the general publics acceptance of our PV's. In my opinion, like it or not, PV's are here to stay and big tobacco, pharma and so many others are going to have to accept it. If they don't and they succeed in banning them outright, they will then become an illegal device which I will continue to build, own and use for myself.

If there is one thing I've learned in more than 6 months of vaping is that every single person that I have explained and demonstrated my PV to (and there have been many) have accepted it for what it is, an alternative to smoking. And not one person has asked me not to use it in their presence. To me this proves that it can be received and eventually accepted by the general public if we do it right. No doubt, this is going to be a long and hard fight.

 

[mistinthewoods]

Read post #20 in this thread. Says it all about why BT will not get into Ecigs.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...obacco-industries-picking-up-e-smoking-2.html

Yep. that's why my heart sunk a little when I saw that patent form. They could possibly prevent other companies from producing a product that they hold the patent for.

 

[Jonmo1]

Yep. that's why my heart sunk a little when I saw that patent form. They could possibly prevent other companies from producing a product that they hold the patent for.

No they can't...
If that were true, then we would all be driving Fords.


As long as you can make a product that is slightly different in design, you can produce and sell it.

 

[Gas]

Many already use the term PV.
No offense intended to those using the slang terms digital LOL & analog LOL.That's very inaccurate & too funny for words! This is a great forum, but using "analog" for cigs. LOL You guys really need to consider how (hate to say this, but somebody must) stupid that sounds to guys new to the forum that know the diff. between digital & analog.
PV & cig. makes sense. It would seem the more the public knows about PV the better as many don't know about them.

100% agreed, by now I'm getting used to "analog" but I'll never use it, it sounds soooo nerdish to me. I like calling things with their names, which in this case it's PV, even because an electroinc cigarette has nothing to do with a real cigarette so in my opinion doesn't even make sense that electroinc-analog distincion. They are not comparable so there's nothing to ditinguish about

 

[Gas]

I agree with vappoem fully. I have also been saying the exact same thing for a very long time, that there really is little to compare cigarettes to PV's. The only similarity is the delivery of nicotine. Every single time someone asks me about my PV the first thing I tell them that it is "advertised" as an electronic-cigarette, but it has no relationship to a cigarette. Any reference to a cigarette is just plain not true. A cigarette is a tobacco product wrapped in paper and burned, PV's have none of that.

You've got to look at the actual definition of "smoking":

Britannica Concise Encyclopedia: Smoking

"Breathing the fumes of burning plant material, especially tobacco, from a cigarette, cigar, or pipe."

I did in fact quit smoking using my PV, as did thousands of other members here at ECF. How can you possibly say that this is a ridiculous statement? We no longer smoke cigarettes, therefore we quit smoking. Period. The only thing I did not stop was my inhalation of nicotine which in my eyes (and the eyes of many) is no different than my intake of caffeine on a daily basis.

And I agree that yes, 99% of the attempts to ban PV's has to do with two things: Money & Politics. This is something else that I have been preaching for a very long time, but the average person (smoker or non-smoker) either does not realize or refuses to believe that just about everything is driven by money & politics. All to many pull the "mightier than thou" attitude, that you are a lower class human because you are a smoker.

We all have to agree that we have to be realistic. We have to use common sense and a lot of discretion to make any progress at all towards the general publics acceptance of our PV's. In my opinion, like it or not, PV's are here to stay and big tobacco, pharma and so many others are going to have to accept it. If they don't and they succeed in banning them outright, they will then become an illegal device which I will continue to build, own and use for myself.

If there is one thing I've learned in more than 6 months of vaping is that every single person that I have explained and demonstrated my PV to (and there have been many) have accepted it for what it is, an alternative to smoking. And not one person has asked me not to use it in their presence. To me this proves that it can be received and eventually accepted by the general public if we do it right. No doubt, this is going to be a long and hard fight.

You couldn't explain better the whole thing, I came to the same conclusions. About quitting smoking with PV... Same opinion, it's not a ridiculous statement, it's simply the truth. The only reason why e-smokers were previously smoking cigarettes is because they needed to assume nicotine not because of the the smell given by cigs, not because of the cancer risk, not because of the yellow teeth or bricks in the chest sensation to their lungs when they were waking up every morning. Smoking it's just a way of assuming nicotine so if you stop and pass to e-cigs you really quitted smoking, what you didn't stop is being addicted to nicotine if you use it in your e-liquids.

 

[Jonmo1]

I dissagree with the "not calling an Ecig a Cigarette"

If "Assuming Nicotine" is the ONLY reason you smoked, then why didn't the patches and gums work for you? Answer me that one...

We are not only addicted to the nicotine, we are also addicted to the ritual of smoking.
The hand to mouth oral fixation, the fiddling with a cigarette in your fingers, the smoke after a meal..etc..etc...

The Ecigarette gives us ALL of that.
So it absolutely should be compared to a cigarette.

If anything, it should be called a "Cancer Free Cigarette", like Sugar Free Cola, Fat Free Cookie, etc..

 

[Lilacs212too]

I try to stay away from the general politics of it all.. but I would like to point out that people who used nicotine patches, or nicotine gum, they all quit smoking but are still getting nicotine. We're just doing it differently. And from what I've read, many of us have tried those same ways and failed. It all comes down to the money.. government doesn't have their hand in the pockets of the distributors and aren't taxing the snot out of it all.. yet

 

[LEMONADE]

I love my Eciggs!