stacking batteries
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With mechanicals, it's very unsafe; I never would either. With regulated mods, if you observe some safety practices*, then it can be perfectly safe.
*1) always keep the pair together;
2) always charge the pair together;
3) number them, and change the order they're inserted, every time you use that pair.
Andria
EDIT: of course all the usual safety stuff applies, like using high-drain IMR batteries and not trying to max out the amp drain by sub-ohm vaping.
*1) always keep the pair together;
2) always charge the pair together;
3) number them, and change the order they're inserted, every time you use that pair.
Andria
EDIT: of course all the usual safety stuff applies, like using high-drain IMR batteries and not trying to max out the amp drain by sub-ohm vaping.
so regulated devices its ok? with unregualted devices your going to kill yourself? i thought it was unsafe all across the board. the reason im asking is because i was watching a few vaping videos from 2012-2013 and they were stacking batteries. i just kinda sat there and thought to myself...that doesnt seem very safe
A regulated mod has a lot of circuitry to protect you from unsafe conditions like a short, but you still have to rigorously observe those safety steps I listed. If you want more info about it, look up the blog posts of JeremyR; he's quite expert on the subject, and is the source of my own knowledge about it.
Andria
Andria
I don't like the idea myself. I sold a very good Buzz Pro because I was tired of keeping up with the batteries for it, as AndriaD outlined above. Now a days if you need more power you can go to a good IMR 18650, or a 26650 size.
Stacking Batteries is considered unsafe due to the Loads some individuals wish to place on their equipment.
Consider this - Hundreds of devices have safely used stacked batteries over the years.(Cameras/Flashlights/etc.) The Devices were safer and designed for the power application. The Batteries were weaker, but safer in their chemistry.
Lithium Batteries have come a long way. i.e. IMR, mixed chemistry. There is still likely room for more improvement.
Consider this - Hundreds of devices have safely used stacked batteries over the years.(Cameras/Flashlights/etc.) The Devices were safer and designed for the power application. The Batteries were weaker, but safer in their chemistry.
Lithium Batteries have come a long way. i.e. IMR, mixed chemistry. There is still likely room for more improvement.
When you have multiple batteries there are two ways you can wire them, series and parallel. In series the electrons flow from the negative of the first battery, through the load, back to the positive of the second battery, from the negative of the second battery to the positive of the first battery. You add the voltage of the two batteries and the amps stays the same. The problem here is that if the two cells do not have the same charge, number of electrons not voltage, one battery will run out first and the other will be carrying the load and put a large strain on them. More dangerous than a single battery. All the electrons go through both batteries.
In a parallel setup the electrons flow from the negative of both batteries through the load and back to the positive of both batteries. The voltage stays the same and you add the amps of the batteries. The two cells are kind of independent and are about as dangerous as a single battery. Half the electrons flow through each battery.
In tube mods the batteries are in series and in most, not all, box mods the batteries are in parallel. The DNA, DNA clones, and SX boards only support parallel, but some other box mods have the batteries in series to get higher voltages and use circuitry to drop the voltage.
In addition to not having the requirement for close matching of batteries in series parallel adds the amp rating of the batteries so you can get up to 60 amps form a pair of VTC4s.
In a parallel setup the electrons flow from the negative of both batteries through the load and back to the positive of both batteries. The voltage stays the same and you add the amps of the batteries. The two cells are kind of independent and are about as dangerous as a single battery. Half the electrons flow through each battery.
In tube mods the batteries are in series and in most, not all, box mods the batteries are in parallel. The DNA, DNA clones, and SX boards only support parallel, but some other box mods have the batteries in series to get higher voltages and use circuitry to drop the voltage.
In addition to not having the requirement for close matching of batteries in series parallel adds the amp rating of the batteries so you can get up to 60 amps form a pair of VTC4s.
I don't need to stack batteries as a single battery works quite well in my APV for the vaping I do (an APV is a regulated mod that often includes electronic safety features absent from mechanical mods). However, I would like to learn more about stacking high drain IMR or hybrid batteries in APVs. What I am not seeing in this thread are many technical answers regarding either the danger or safety of stacking batteries in APVs. I'm seeing a lot of anecdotal answers, but no specifics regarding battery chemistry types, maximum current drains, battery matching, battery rotation, charging and the reasons why.
Because stacking safer chemistry batteries may or may not be a safety issue with APVs I'd like to see some answers.
Because stacking safer chemistry batteries may or may not be a safety issue with APVs I'd like to see some answers.
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I think there's a lot of that info in the Sigelei thread, yzer, from back when I was quizzing JeremyR about it, back in April. He's my sole source of info on battery stacking. I just take his recommendations, which are basically what I outlined above.
Andria
Sigelei Zmaxs are a good example. There are tons of APVs under many names that contract Yihiecigar (whio also design and produce SX series) chipsets for 3-6V or 3-15W vaping. This includes Smok, Sigelei, Vamo, Innokin (SVD) and more. These APVs are designed to perform with single high drain batteries at 3-11W (2.5A limit) but use stacked 18350 for up to 15W (4.0A limit).
For me, stacking 18350's in my Vamo 5 was the only way to go in that device. Theoretically, stacking batteries in a mod should be ok but not in real life. You could probably do it forever and nothing would happen. If one were fastidious about numbering and stacking, alternately, the batteries and used only high quality batteries and never letting them go to low, the chances are pretty low one would create a nuclear reaction. It's that one time though, where one has shards of metal flying all over and burnt hands and a piece of coil sticking out of ones eye that makes it dangerous. It's more the results than the odds.
When I was a child... No wait...
Back in the day people were stacking old chemistry ICR batteries - the only battery chemistry in town - in mechanicals and using high resistance things trying to push the envelope. That was a very unsafe thing to do as ICR's can become very unstable if one of the two stacked batteries drops below 3.2 volts on a regular basis. Protected cells were typically used because of this. (Or they should have been...)
Stacking IMR chemistry is a lot safer, but in order to not stress the batteries you still have to pay attention to not allowing a battery to drop below it's low safe limit, which for most IMR's is 2.5 volts.
Regardless, for the young kids these days there is no point to stacking two batteries just to do high voltage vaping - atty design has moved way beyond the need for a 6.4 volt vape. For stacked APV's using a buck regulator, most of them have an automatic cutoff when the batteries are going to low voltage. For the ones that don't, performance typically suffers enough that you have received your "warning" that the batteries are due for charging. Once you reach that point just stop trying to push the batteries - the voltage is already at the point that they need a recharge.
Monitoring the health of what you are doing with stacked batteries with a charger with digital display (like an Xtar VP1) or a DVM is a necessity.
In the original instruction booklet for my Vamo V2 it recommends using two 18350 stacked. I think P Busardo did a video that showed it was the only way to get the Vamo to perform as indicated at the higher wattage / voltage settings.
Values provided by RTD Vapor:
AW IMR 18350: maximum continuous discharge rate: 6A
Efest Purple IMR 18350: discharge current 10.5A
Efest Red IMR 18350: (no discharge rate info available from RTD or Efest)
AW IMR 18350: maximum continuous discharge rate: 6A
Efest Purple IMR 18350: discharge current 10.5A
Efest Red IMR 18350: (no discharge rate info available from RTD or Efest)
The VV REO Grand uses two stacked 18350's. So, it isn't without precedent. Best to do whatever the manufacturer recommends though. No extra points for creativity.
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