Starter questions

[MrCabana]

Hello all,


I have been reading and reading (and then some) about e-liquids and can't really find specific answers to all my questions. Most of them are perhaps related to different standards among different countries.


The main thing is ... e-cigs are still forbidden in Brasil so we don't have official shops that I can trust to buy e-liquid and other accessories. I can't even buy them from other countries because it can be stopped at customs.

That said, I would like to ask a few questions regarding DIY e-liquid and safety of e-cigs. Needless to say I'm a total noob when it comes to these subjects.

Alright, here are my questions I would love to have answered:

1) I did find Glycerin at the pharmacy, but they don't come with detailed information in the bottle. I even called the factory and they assured me it's VEGETABLE, BI-DESTILED and, despite the label saying it's 95%, they told me it's near 100% pure. It says "Medicinal Glycerin". My question is: do you think it's safe to use this one on e-liquid?

2) About the Propilen Glycol. Also can be found at pharmacies, but absolutely no further info on those. I know some people can be allergic to it, but it doesn't really concern me because I don't think that's my case. Many sites say it has to be "food grade" and it has to meet USP standards. I really can't find that info here, so I would like to know if there are many kinds of PG and if so, what questions could I ask the factory in order to check it can be used as e-liquid or not?

3) I know oil based and sugar based flavors should be avoided. That would leave out all the flavor essences I've found. They have many options here of many things used in the cosmetics industry (oil based, I guess) or those used for cakes (sugar based). So are these ones to be avoided? What kind of essence should I look for then?

4) What's the purpose of adding destiled water or alcohol in e-liquid? Shouldn't that reduce the amount of vapor? What would be the recommended percentage of that?

5) Why can't I use ordinary alcohol? I hear people saying they use Vodka in DIY e-liquid, is it safe? Can I use any kind of vodka or is there an specific type? What effect does vodka give to the liquid?

These are all my questions for now. I din't ask anything related to nicotine, because I don't intend to add it to my mixtures. I just want a safe heavy and flavory vapor.


Thanks in advance.

 

[Leoleoleo]

I'm not totally qualified in this area but I'll cherry-pick an answer and hopefully another Brazillian or an expert DIYer will see this thread after I bump it.

USP stands for United States Pharmacopeia, meaning that it's pharmaceutical grade. I'm not surprised you don't see it in your Brazillian pharmacy - you need to find put what the local equivalent is. Both PG and VG should be this. What % purity that is, I don't know.

Also, I want to make a quick point: e-cigarettes may be illegal in Brazil but VG, PG and food flavourings are not. You can order these things from reputable sites in other countries. As long as they don't write "for e-cigarettes" on the customs form, everything should be fine. If you do this, you can at least be fairly sure won't be poisoning yourself with your experiments.

 

[AttyPops]

I can't recommend anything for Brazil either. So take advice with caution:

I'd use 100% Propylene Glycol (PG) over any "iffy" VG if it was me.
Use candy flavors that don't have sugars or oils in them (water based). See the DIY e-liquid section.
DIY E-Liquid

Small amounts of water are used to smooth the vapor or thin the e-liquid particularly for 100% VG liquids. You really don't need it with 100% PG IMO. Maybe try a small amount of water to see if it makes it better. 10% or less. Some people go as high as 20% but that's pushing it IMO.

Alcohol is sometimes used too. It's more common to have alcohol in the flavor extraction since some chemicals are alcohol soluble and some water soluble. So it's mainly used for either flavoring mixing or sometimes to add...TH.

I can't recommend that you approach this if it's illegal in your country. However, for travel....... Meh.

 

[Baditude]

You could DIY e-liquids. Propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin should be available from a few sources, as you found. You can purchase concentrated flavorings from several online vendors like Wizzard Labs and My Freedom Smokes.

The main issue would be finding a source for nicotine to add to your homemade e-liquids. It can be purchased from both vendors I mentioned, but this runs the risk of being held up in customs and possibly get you in trouble. I will say, you can ask the vendor to send the package without their business name or address which might lessen the suspicion of custom agents.

Good luck with your search. All countries around the world are facing the same potential discrimination by their governments to outlaw over-the-counter nicotine e-liquid products, including the United States.

 

[Hoosier]

1) I did find Glycerin at the pharmacy, but they don't come with detailed information in the bottle. I even called the factory and they assured me it's VEGETABLE, BI-DESTILED and, despite the label saying it's 95%, they told me it's near 100% pure. It says "Medicinal Glycerin". My question is: do you think it's safe to use this one on e-liquid?

The medical designation seems reasonable provided your country has a set standard for the use of "Medicinal" on a label.

2) About the Propilen Glycol. Also can be found at pharmacies, but absolutely no further info on those. I know some people can be allergic to it, but it doesn't really concern me because I don't think that's my case. Many sites say it has to be "food grade" and it has to meet USP standards. I really can't find that info here, so I would like to know if there are many kinds of PG and if so, what questions could I ask the factory in order to check it can be used as e-liquid or not?

If the Propylene glycol is used by a compounding pharmacy for pharmaceutical purposes, it should be very good.

3) I know oil based and sugar based flavors should be avoided. That would leave out all the flavor essences I've found. They have many options here of many things used in the cosmetics industry (oil based, I guess) or those used for cakes (sugar based). So are these ones to be avoided? What kind of essence should I look for then?

This is a tough one from here in Indiana. You want to see if you can find any that are used for candy making that do not contain sugar, many oils (there are exceptions to which oils are bad), gums and coloring if possible. I second Atty's suggestion of checking out the DIY sub forum.

4) What's the purpose of adding destiled water or alcohol in e-liquid? Shouldn't that reduce the amount of vapor? What would be the recommended percentage of that?

This is primarily used for thinning VG so it wicks better. Don't need it if you don't have wicking issues.

5) Why can't I use ordinary alcohol? I hear people saying they use Vodka in DIY e-liquid, is it safe? Can I use any kind of vodka or is there an specific type? What effect does vodka give to the liquid?

The highest proof, or percentage of alcohol, is the best bet. Type doesn't really matter, as you're looking for the greatest amount of pure grain alcohol in the volume as possible.

 

[MrCabana]

Leoleoleo: thank you for saying the meaning of USP. I will surely look for it and see if the one I've got meets this specification, whatever it is.

AttyPops: did you say alcohol is used to dilute vapor and increase TH? Is it safe to use ordinary vodka to achieve more TH?

Baditude: I am not concerned about nicotine. As I said, I'm not even planning to add that to my e-cigs. As for the legal part, I don't really care what brazilian officials have to say, I pay my taxes (cos I'm forced to) and they should be happy from that. Anyway, this country is not known for its quality of services, but for its corruption.

Hoosier: thank you for you complete answer. The only thing I think you missed was the purpose of using vodka. Does it or doesn't it increase TH?

Thank you all for such a rapid response.

Edit: I found a vanilla essence that has destiled water, ethil alchol, caramel colloring and "flavors". Do you think it's safe?

 

[Hoosier]

Actually didn't say anything about TH because I keep seeing that, but it in all my experience alcohol does not give me any increased throat hit. Some folks say it works, but I don't know why.

Seems like a flavoring that might work. Caramel coloring tends to have a bitter taste and while not preferable, it is certainly better than anything else you've found so far.

 

[MrCabana]

Ok.

I'll give it a try tomorrow. The vodka and the vanilla thingy.
Will post results here later on, in case anyone is interested.

Thanks.

 

[AttyPops]

If you're used to drinking medieval grog or mead the alcohol may not work for you, MrC.... it kind of depends on the Throat part of the TH as well as the hit part...........

IDK. I don't use alcohol in my mixes. I think it's mostly for the mixing of chemicals, but some swear it increase TH so I repeated the rumor. Meh. Guess I'll have to try it someday. lol.

 

[MrCabana]

Here are the results of my experiments:

Adding vodka to it, about 10%, only made less vapor and absolutely no TH.
The Vanilla essence didn't do any good either. I think I have to increase the quantity of it in my liquids.
By the way, I found another shop in town that sells many different flavors of essences for cakes based on water and Ethyl Alcohol. I think this one is better to use with e-cigs, no?
As for the Glycerin part, I bought two different brands and just e-mailed the factories asking for detailed information since there's none printed in the bottle. I asked if it's VEGETABLE, meets USP standards, has over 99% purity and is Bi-Destilled. Did I miss anything?
Thanks.

 

[MrCabana]

Oh, just another question ... I found a website HERE that says there are two types of Glycerin, "USP" and "Food Grade". They seem to be different from one another. Most of the sites about e-cigs mention we have to use USP, but some others say it has to be Food Grade. Now I am confused, which one should I use?

 

[Hoosier]

It's USP that you want.

Food grade is below USP.

Agricultural grade is below food grade.

Industrial grade is below agricultural grade.

If a producer makes a higher grade, they can advertize it for use in the lower ones, so it is not uncommon to see USP also labeled as food grade, or lower.

 

[MrCabana]

Thank you very much.