Starting make coils

[CloudsBruh]

I have a sigelei Fuchai 200 watt tc
I am getting my first rda soon
I thinking the mutation x v4 as it is not too expensive.
Im trying to get big dense clouds
As im just starting to get into coil building, what gauge should I use, to get big clouds, and be able to use my mod. Also, suggest a build for me to start out with.
I know im asking alot, but thanks for the help.

 

[sonicbomb]

Dual 26G 2.5mm ID 12 wraps comes out to 0.73 ohms.
Coil wrapping

If that doesn't do it, try clapton coils.

 

[Two_Bears]

I have a Sigelei Fuchai 200 watt tc
I am getting my first rda soon
I thinking the mutation x v4 as it is not too expensive.
Im trying to get big dense clouds
As im just starting to get into coil building, what gauge should I use, to get big clouds, and be able to use my mod. Also, suggest a build for me to start out with.
I know im asking alot, but thanks for the help.

1. Get high drain good batteries.

2. Learn battery safety. ECF has two battery experts check their posts and blog entries. @Baditude @Mooch. They can tell you more about battery safety.

3. Note when you start using the batteries and retire them to flashlights and other devices after about 4 months.

4 you don't need .1 ohm build or 200 watts to get a satisfying vape. Build good coils for a satisfactory vape and call it good.

 

[KenD]

1. Get high drain good batteries.

2. Learn battery safety. ECF has two battery experts check their posts and blog entries. @Baditude @Mooch. They can tell you more about battery safety.

3. Note when you start using the batteries and retire them to flashlights and other devices after about 4 months.

4 you don't need .1 ohm build or 200 watts to get a satisfying vape. Build good coils for a satisfactory vape and call it good.

No need to retire batteries after four months. With normal use they're good for far longer (I have some that are more than two years old and are still going strong). It's time to retire the batteries when you notice that they don't hold their charge well anymore. Of course, when putting a lot of stress on the batteries they will wear out faster, but the same indicators apply. Throwing them out early is just a waste, particularly as li-ion (including icr, inr, imr etc) are hazardous waste.

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

 

[Two_Bears]

No need to retire batteries after four months. With normal use they're good for far longer (I have some that are more than two years old and are still going strong). It's time to retire the batteries when you notice that they don't hold their charge well anymore. Of course, when putting a lot of stress on the batteries they will wear out faster, but the same indicators apply. Throwing them out early is just a waste, particularly as li-ion (including icr, inr, imr etc) are hazardous waste.

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

Vaping takes a lot out of batteries. Charging draining and recharging.

Keep abusing batteries without retiring them, and one of three things is going to happen.

1. Swell
2 venting
3. Go boom.

If you recharge the battery every day that is 122 recharges.

If you want to abuse the batteries day after day what happens is all on you.

 

[KenD]

Vaping takes a lot out of batteries. Charging draining and recharging.

Keep abusing batteries without retiring them, and one of three things is going to happen.

1. Swell
2 venting
3. Go boom.

If you recharge the battery every day that is 122 recharges.

If you want to abuse the batteries day after day what happens is all on you.

The batteries will stand up to a minimum of 300 charge cycles, if used within spec. Even that doesn't mean that the batteries become useless after that, simply that they aren't up to spec anymore. After that point they're still ok in less amp-heavy application. Quite frankly, it's more dangerous to use a simple linear measure such as "four months" (or "300 charge cycles" for that matter) than to monitor the health of the batteries (measure their charge, check for changes in internal resistance etc). And, again, spent batteries are hazardous waste so they really shouldn't be discarded too frivolously.

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

 

[Two_Bears]

The batteries will stand up to a minimum of 300 charge cycles, if used within spec. Even that doesn't mean that the batteries become useless after that, simply that they aren't up to spec anymore. After that point they're still ok in less amp-heavy application. Quite frankly, it's more dangerous to use a simple linear measure such as "four months" (or "300 charge cycles" for that matter) than to monitor the health of the batteries (measure their charge, check for changes in internal resistance etc). And, again, spent batteries are hazardous waste so they really shouldn't be discarded too frivolously.

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

I was not tossing the batteries. Afterv122 charges I was going to continue to use them in flashlights and other devices.

 

[Baditude]

Vaping takes a lot out of batteries. Charging draining and recharging.

Keep abusing batteries without retiring them, and one of three things is going to happen.

1. Swell
2 venting
3. Go boom.

Although I pretty much agree with your statements, I've yet to see evidence that today's IMR / INR (hybrid) batteries "swell" when they vent. They can pop their top off when they vent gas. They are designed to release gas from their top when they go into thermal runaway, as this is what keeps the cell cylinder from exploding.

It's when this accumulation of gas gets trapped inside of a metal tube mod with inadequate ventilation which turns it into a pipe bomb. Keep in mind that bottom vent holes may be useless, as the battery itself may obstruct the pathway to the vent holes. The best location for vent holes is in the upper 1/3 of the mod, where the gas begins to accumulate.

Pic of a rare instance of an IMR battery blowing its top off and expelling its contents.

IMHO, if you are not pushing your batteries past their "continuous" discharge rate, you are not abusing your batteries. I too have IMR / INR batteries which are over two years old and still in use. I do agree with the statement that batteries' capacity and amp limits fall as they are in use and as they age, as much as 50%. That's why I try to never exceed 50% of the CDR (continuous discharge rating) of a fully charged battery (4.2v). So with a 20 amp battery, that 50% would be 10 amps continuous -- a 10 amp draw from a 0.8 ohm coil build.

 

[Two_Bears]

Although I pretty much agree with your statements, I've yet to see evidence that today's IMR / INR (hybrid) batteries "swell" when they vent. They can pop their top off when they vent gas. They are designed to release gas from their top when they go into thermal runaway, as this is what keeps the cell cylinder from exploding.

It's when this accumulation of gas gets trapped inside of a metal tube mod with inadequate ventilation which turns it into a pipe bomb. Keep in mind that bottom vent holes may be useless, as the battery itself may obstruct the pathway to the vent holes. The best location for vent holes is in the upper 1/3 of the mod, where the gas begins to accumulate.

Pic of a rare instance of an IMR battery blowing its top off and expelling its contents.

IMHO, if you are not pushing your batteries past their "continuous" discharge rate, you are not abusing your batteries. I too have IMR / INR batteries which are over two years old and still in use. I do agree with the statement that batteries' capacity and amp limits fall as they are in use and as they age, as much as 50%. That's why I try to never exceed 50% of the CDR (continuous discharge rating) of a fully charged battery (4.2v). So with a 20 amp battery, that 50% would be 10 amps continuous -- a 10 amp draw from a 0.8 ohm coil build.

Baditude just recently a member reported his battery would charge and was getting hot. If he gave the brand I do not recall.

Several people including me told him to stop using the battery. He bought some Samsung25r batteries and he left that battery with someone else. This person used it in a mech mod and the person reported this other person saying the battery swelled and he had a heck of a time getting the battery out.

I have been around batteries since the days of transistor radios in the 1960s.

I have seen batteries leak acid, swell, vent, get super hot, and blow up.

I have been using 18650 batteries in flashlights and other applications for years. I am older and wiser and don't abuse my batteries any more.

 

[Baditude]

Several people including me told him to stop using the battery. He bought some Samsung25r batteries and he left that battery with someone else. This person used it in a mech mod and the person reported this other person saying the battery swelled and he had a heck of a time getting the battery out.

I have seen batteries leak acid, swell, vent, get super hot, and blow up.

I read that thread, too. It's possible that the plastic wrapping melted and turned into a gooie mess, thereby causing difficulty getting the battery out.

However, I trust your experience that you have witnessed a battery swell. All the more reason that mech mods need vent holes in the upper 1/3 of the tube.

 

[Two_Bears]

I read that thread, too. It's possible that the plastic wrapping melted and turned into a gooie mess, thereby causing difficulty getting the battery out.

However, I trust your experience that you have witnessed a battery swell. All the more reason that mech mods need vent holes in the upper 1/3 of the tube.

So I'm not lying.

He said the battery swelled. I wasn't there and have to take him at his word.

I had a SMPL clone I used as a backup for a while. It had either 6 or 8 vent holes in the button.

I have a Kepler mech mod. I got it because of the threaded ring to keep the mod from accidentally firing (for safety) stashed away in my vapeapocalypse.

I'd has one vent hole in the bottom about 2.5 mm.

 

[Remisdad]

I made my first fused Clapton last night and what a pain it was at first. Everything that could go wrong did but I finally got it at 11pm last night. It heats good although next time I will use nichrome 80 as the core.

 

[Tom Forde]

@CloudsBruh I'd not recommend a Mutation X v4 as your first atty. At that price point have a look at the STRO OG Mini & the Aeolus Lite by Syntheticloud. The mutation x v4 is a leak machine, I'm not taking about from the AFC holes, yet from the bad quality orings and thin flimsy metal it's made from.
Every build thread always ends up in battery talk, yet not build talk.
Yes you should be getting good batteries - VTC4's 30A CDR, 2100mAh or Samsung 25r's, or LG Brownies - and you need to marry them in pairs, label them (like 1 & 2) and rotate them: If you put them in 1-2 after charging put them back in the mod 2-1, and only use those pairs together.
I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that the Sig Fuchai 200 will fire down to .10Ω in power mode.
You could throw in simple 22g N80 spaced 6 wrap duals on a 3mm ID. Those will throw clouds. You could also try out some parallels, like 22g/24g parallel, 24g/24g parallels, etc.

I have a simple 8 wrap, 3mm ID, 22g N80 in my Vector and it's capable of throwing clouds on a reg'd mod around 75-80w & comes in around .17Ω for duals.
If you have any build questions or need help with anything feel free to message me

 

[jersey_emt]

@CloudsBruh I'd not recommend a Mutation X v4 as your first atty. At that price point have a look at the STRO OG Mini & the Aeolus Lite by Syntheticloud. The mutation x v4 is a leak machine, I'm not taking about from the AFC holes, yet from the bad quality orings and thin flimsy metal it's made from.
Every build thread always ends up in battery talk, yet not build talk.
Yes you should be getting good batteries - VTC4's 30A CDR, 2100mAh or Samsung 25r's, or LG Brownies - and you need to marry them in pairs, label them (like 1 & 2) and rotate them: If you put them in 1-2 after charging put them back in the mod 2-1, and only use those pairs together.
I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that the Sig Fuchai 200 will fire down to .10Ω in power mode.
You could throw in simple 22g N80 spaced 6 wrap duals on a 3mm ID. Those will throw clouds. You could also try out some parallels, like 22g/24g parallel, 24g/24g parallels, etc.

I have a simple 8 wrap, 3mm ID, 22g N80 in my Vector and it's capable of throwing clouds on a reg'd mod around 75-80w & comes in around .17Ω for duals.
If you have any build questions or need help with anything feel free to message me

Agreed. The Mutation X4 isn't an ideal first RDA. I'd recommend starting with something with either traditional side airflow or top airflow as your first RDA. Three-post or four-post is up to you, but three-posters are easier for single coil builds since the posts are closer together (you don't need extra bends in the coil legs or an extremely high number of wraps for the leads to line up with the posts). Four-post RDA's are of course easier for dual coil builds since you have a separate post for each lead and don't have to fiddle with two leads coming from opposite directions like with a three-post RDA.

There are plenty of well-made RDA's for under $50, and a decent amount for $30.

The Aeolus Lite is a great four-post RDA at $40 -- it is quickly becoming my "go-to" RDA because it's built well, doesn't leak, and works great for both flavor-chasing and cloud-chasing builds.

The Wotofo Lush is a very good $30 four-poster. It has a great drip well that holds plenty of juice, and the positioning of the negative posts (closer to the center instead of overhanging the outer edges like most RDA's) makes it extremely easy to wick since it gives you much more space between the coil and the outer edge of the well, and there is plenty of airflow for clouds.

I've haven't tried it yet, but the newly-released BMI Goldie Back 2 Basics Killa looks like a great $50 four-post RDA (despite the absolutely ridiculous name).

The Wotofo Sapor is another good choice for a $30 four-post RDA. Top airflow, deep drip well, easy to build on -- not much else to say.

For three-post RDA's, my favorite is the CLT V3 Mini at $30. It's more of a slightly smaller than standard size RDA than an actual "mini" RDA like the Derringer, and despite its reduced size, has enough airflow and chamber volume for good clouds, while still retaining a nice drip well. It's another "well-balanced" RDA like the Aeolus Lite which should serve you well for either flavor builds or cloud builds.

The REMentry RDA is a great $35 three-poster. The negative posts are completely inside the drip well instead of hanging off the outer edge so wicking is super-easy. It's a simple, traditional side-airflow design that just plain works. And it is made in the USA if that matters to you.

 

[jersey_emt]

As per builds, a great place to start would be GrimmGreen's "Quick and Effective coil build for RDA atomizers" video on Youtube.



A very easy to build 24 gauge dual coil (7 wraps, 2.5 mm) which should put you at around 0.3 ohms. And he goes over every aspect of the build process very clearly and easy to follow.

I would definitely start with a traditional Kanthal build for your first go. I recommend getting a good supply of wire in 24, 26, and 28 gauge -- go to Lightning Vapes and pick up 100 feet of each for just a few bucks (use coupon code LV15 for 15% off of their already great pricing). Temperature control coils are much more fiddly, and you should have a good grasp of building with Kanthal before experimenting with TC coils.

 

[Tom Forde]

Agreed. The Mutation X4 isn't an ideal first RDA. I'd recommend starting with something with either traditional side airflow or top airflow as your first RDA. Three-post or four-post is up to you, but three-posters are easier for single coil builds since the posts are closer together (you don't need extra bends in the coil legs or an extremely high number of wraps for the leads to line up with the posts). Four-post RDA's are of course easier for dual coil builds since you have a separate post for each lead and don't have to fiddle with two leads coming from opposite directions like with a three-post RDA.

There are plenty of well-made RDA's for under $50, and a decent amount for $30.

The Aeolus Lite is a great four-post RDA at $40 -- it is quickly becoming my "go-to" RDA because it's built well, doesn't leak, and works great for both flavor-chasing and cloud-chasing builds.

The Wotofo Lush is a very good $30 four-poster. It has a great drip well that holds plenty of juice, and the positioning of the negative posts (closer to the center instead of overhanging the outer edges like most RDA's) makes it extremely easy to wick since it gives you much more space between the coil and the outer edge of the well, and there is plenty of airflow for clouds.

I've haven't tried it yet, but the newly-released BMI Goldie Back 2 Basics Killa looks like a great $50 four-post RDA (despite the absolutely ridiculous name).

The Wotofo Sapor is another good choice for a $30 four-post RDA. Top airflow, deep drip well, easy to build on -- not much else to say.

For three-post RDA's, my favorite is the CLT V3 Mini at $30. It's more of a slightly smaller than standard size RDA than an actual "mini" RDA like the Derringer, and despite its reduced size, has enough airflow and chamber volume for good clouds, while still retaining a nice drip well. It's another "well-balanced" RDA like the Aeolus Lite which should serve you well for either flavor builds or cloud builds.

The REMentry RDA is a great $35 three-poster. The negative posts are completely inside the drip well instead of hanging off the outer edge so wicking is super-easy. It's a simple, traditional side-airflow design that just plain works. And it is made in the USA if that matters to you.

Noooo do NOT Sapor. Bad bad experiences with it. Check out the STRO OG mini at $34.99, 2 post, 4 post hole - or - the Aeolus Lite at $39.99. And with 3 post atties, depending on the atty, you will have to center your coils, eg; I have 2 Kennedy 24's and the AFC is in the middle of the deck right next to the centerpost on both sides, so I need to bend my leads appropriately to have the coils above the airflow to 1) prevent leaking, & 2) have the AFC run properly under the coils.

 

[jersey_emt]

Noooo do NOT Sapor. Bad bad experiences with it. Check out the STRO OG mini at $34.99, 2 post, 4 post hole - or - the Aeolus Lite at $39.99.

What was your bad experience with the Sapor? I don't own one, but I have built and vaped on one and found it to be an excellent RDA. Not as good as the Aeolus Lite, but still very, very good.

I'm not sure the STRO OG Mini would be an ideal first RDA, because with its two-post design, the posts are quite far apart, requiring bends in both legs to get the coils centered unless you have a build with a very large number of wraps (which also isn't good for beginners since it is more difficult to wick these types of coils).

But I definitely agree with you that the Aeolus Lite would probably be the best choice for the OP.

 

[Tom Forde]

What was your bad experience with the Sapor? I don't own one, but I have built and vaped on one and found it to be an excellent RDA. Not as good as the Aeolus Lite, but still very, very good.

I'm not sure the STRO OG Mini would be an ideal first RDA, because with its two-post design, the posts are quite far apart, requiring bends in both legs to get the coils centered unless you have a build with a very large number of wraps (which also isn't good for beginners since it is more difficult to wick these types of coils).

But I definitely agree with you that the Aeolus Lite would probably be the best choice for the OP.

Or the OP could just space the builds. 22mm outer diameter isn't really that big, gotta keep that in mind.

And on the Sapor, I owned 2, got from a local B&M, the first one the centerpin insulator kinda melted on me, it definitely wasn't PEEK on the 510 insulator. So I bring it back since it happened within a week they replaced it for free. I showed them how the center post block moved up and down if you pushed on the 510 screw, & that there was an audible click noise when pushing the post back down. So with a fresh replacement, I was a little more conservative and threw in a set of dual 24g KA1/38g N80 Clapton parallel to a single strand 24g N80, 7 (parallel) wraps on a 3mm, ohm'd out around .2-.25ish and in 3 days the same problem happened at 75w on an IPV4. So I trashed it.

The STRO OG Mini IMO is a better version of the velocity deck. I don't think the OP would have a lick of trouble building anything on it.

 

[Two_Bears]

Or the OP could just space the builds. 22mm outer diameter isn't really that big, gotta keep that in mind.

And on the Sapor, I owned 2, got from a local B&M, the first one the centerpin insulator kinda melted on me, it definitely wasn't PEEK on the 510 insulator. So I bring it back since it happened within a week they replaced it for free. I showed them how the center post block moved up and down if you pushed on the 510 screw, & that there was an audible click noise when pushing the post back down. So with a fresh replacement, I was a little more conservative and threw in a set of dual 24g KA1/38g N80 Clapton parallel to a single strand 24g N80, 7 (parallel) wraps on a 3mm, ohm'd out around .2-.25ish and in 3 days the same problem happened at 75w on an IPV4. So I trashed it.

The STRO OG Mini IMO is a better version of the velocity deck. I don't think the OP would have a lick of trouble building anything on it.

Correct. You are not the only one that reported melting insulators. If memory served they used Delrin instead of peek.

Delrin is OK if you keep your wattage down.

If you want big power and big clouds STAY AWAY..

unfortunately Delrin comes in multiple colors and the clear (translucent) is hard to distinguish from peek

 

[Tom Forde]

Correct. You are not the only one that reported melting insulators. If memory served they used Delrin instead of peek.

Delrin is OK if you keep your wattage down.

If you want big power and big clouds STAY AWAY..

unfortunately Delrin comes in multiple colors and the clear (translucent) is hard to distinguish from peek

Actually it's kinda easy to distinguish from PEEK, my Petri v1 & v2 both have full PEEK surrounding the entire deck. They're an off white color. The delrin around the sapor's 510 screw is clear. Also my TM atty and Doge v2 came with extra PEEK insulators and they're the same off white color as all other PEEK I've seen.

I don't trust Wotofo at all, they're the kinda company that'll do anything to cut corners & make maximum refund. I sent them a few emails to their CS & they never got back to me when the issue happened. No CS what so ever.

I've had atty problems before with Kennedy & Hobo Customs - both companies had excellent CS, great communication & the "our bad, send it in and we'll replace it" mentality. Both Kennedy & Hobo Customs had my issues resolved within a week. Wotofo never even responded to an email.