Steeping / recipe building techniques / strategies

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seek2

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So just now getting into diy. Currently following 2 recipes of nicely reviewed 1:1 clones. They both require 2-3 weeks steep so haven't even tasted it yet. Want the recipe to be finished before.

But that's no fun. Want to make my own recipes and try to copy my favorite juices.

Doing them in 30ml batches.

My question is do you guys taste it right away (or well at least a few hours after the 1st mix)? Take notes. Steep 24 hours, taste and take notes, another 24 hours, taste and take notes, etc.

Would love to hear from some experienced mixers how you do it.

Kind of what I have been doing. Probably why I never got into diy since I knew I would be very ocd about it, and very impatient. The addict immediate gratification gene is very strong in my family.

Of course I am anxious to taste my creation because the results can be very unexpected. One recipe I had was tasting alright at the 48 hour mark. And then turned like hell at the 72 hour mark. Gonna leave it and try once more at the 2-3 week mark.

Which made me think. Just mix it and steep it.

But yeah, curious how everyone does it. Thanks.
 

IDJoel

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seek2

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Excellent. Thanks. Found some good threads but nothing like this! Didn't even know there were blogs.

Dave, yes. Exactly why I am getting into it. It's going to save me so much money too. Especially with the devices and coils we have these days. juice just vanishes. It's crazy.

Thanks again.
 

dannyv45

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My though on steeping is try it after mixing and if it's good vape it if not steep it. If it's still not good adjust it and if still no good dump it as no amount of steeping and adjusting is going to save the taste of bad flavoring.
 

Sugar_and_Spice

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So just now getting into diy. Currently following 2 recipes of nicely reviewed 1:1 clones. They both require 2-3 weeks steep so haven't even tasted it yet. Want the recipe to be finished before.

But that's no fun. Want to make my own recipes and try to copy my favorite juices.

Doing them in 30ml batches.

My question is do you guys taste it right away (or well at least a few hours after the 1st mix)? Take notes. Steep 24 hours, taste and take notes, another 24 hours, taste and take notes, etc.

Would love to hear from some experienced mixers how you do it.

Kind of what I have been doing. Probably why I never got into diy since I knew I would be very ocd about it, and very impatient. The addict immediate gratification gene is very strong in my family.

Of course I am anxious to taste my creation because the results can be very unexpected. One recipe I had was tasting alright at the 48 hour mark. And then turned like hell at the 72 hour mark. Gonna leave it and try once more at the 2-3 week mark.

Which made me think. Just mix it and steep it.

But yeah, curious how everyone does it. Thanks.
I do a little of both- steeping and shake and vape.
In this thread you can find a lot of recipes for shake and vape, it will give you something to vape while waiting for those others that need a long steep.
As a general rule of thumb, fruit flavors by themselves or with 1 or 2 more flavors added are usually a shake and vape. Tobacco flavors, vanilla's, chocolate, and some creams require a very long steep. I know the longer chocolate steeps the better.....more like a month or more.
When ordering flavors try to read the reviews on those sites. Sometimes they will offer insight other than taste great or awful.
:)
 

sketchness

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Nothing beats time with most recipes. There is no shortcut to vanilla, cream, custard, tobacco, or a recipe balancing where the fruit is in the background and the cupcake is up front.

Some stuff is ready to go right away. Some things I only like fresh. I personally don't care for the way nic reacts with heat. It can make a liquid vapeable quick but it will never be great. This is of course just my experience. You get to have your own.

I vape everything fresh to see how it is, and see what time does to a recipe.
 

BrotherBob

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Would love to hear from some experienced mixers how you do it.
I do what works for me.
I mix 10 to 30 (120ml to 5 ml.) mixes at a time. I generally have so many mixes ready to taste after (a month or so) steeping, I taste when I get around to it. Hence, steeping and when is it best to taste,(time) is taken out of the equation (If a mix is no good after a month, it will never be used again).
Doing them in 30ml batches.
My rule of thumb:
Unknown result-5 ml. mix.
Known result - 10 - 120 ml.
 

satchvai

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Good advice. Don't fall into the speed steeping myth like I and a lot of other new mixers did. A year down the road and having owned a small ejuice company I closed two weeks ago, nothing beats good old father time. I try at time of mix, 3 days, than 7 days later. If it's good at those intervals it will usually be good down the road. You'll be able to gauge it the longer you mix.
 

whiteowl84

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I make trials of the same recipe with variations in each. I make about 5ml in each one, any less and it's hard to get the drops right.

Then I nuke them till there scalding hot.
When they cool down, run them on a clean dripper and make the best one.

I steep in a crockpot for 12-24 hours.
24 hours in a crockpot on low will do a months worth of steeping.
Soft plastic bottles are fine, clear ones will deform.
 
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seek2

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Question -

When doing a fresh mix to taste are you tasting it immediately? Or at least letting it settle for a few hours? I suppose after some.vigerous shaking it may be ok. But once it settles you kinda see the air crust on the top. Letting it settle with the top off to let it breathe. Probably when it needs the most breathing too.

Just curious what y'all do :) Thanks.
 
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IDJoel

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If it is a new recipe for me; I mix, shake, and then taste. I want a benchmark with which to compare. So that means notes! Notes on what I mixed, how I mixed it, and what my initial thoughts on taste are. I am also tasting for "off" notes. Is it harsh, does it have a chemical, artificial, or other unpleasant aftertaste? These are indicators to me that this mix might benefit from some time with the cap and drip tip off (this can be a couple of hours, or days).

Then, depending on how it tastes, I may vape on it right away, or put it away for 24hours. I generally will do a second intentional "tasting" at 24 hours to compare how much it has changed (and whether for the better). More notes!

Then, depending on how much I like it (or not), and what flavors I used in it (tobaccos, custards, chocolates... I know these take some time to come into their own) I might do one of a couple of things.
It might be good to go. Or it might be in that needs a "bit more time;" in which case I will put it away for another 48 to 72 hours then re taste and note. Or, if it has those flavors I know really need time I will put it away for a week, or even two then re taste and note.

The important thing, again for me, is to check a new recipe at intervals so I have a good understanding on how it is going to behave. That way, the next time I mix it (assuming I liked it), I will know "this needs 24 hours with the top open and a week in the cupboard," or "this needs 4 weeks in the cupboard," or "it's good to shake and vape."

I will sometimes repeat this process for a known recipe (one I have previously made) if I am using a different flavor that I haven't used before or haven't had success with previously (pomegranate is one I am currently struggling with... everybody else seems to just love it; but not me).

One other thing I would add to this is taste your flavors individually first! Before you start mixing with them. This will do two things for you: 1) it will give you a good idea of what kind of taste/tastes it is going to bring to the party, and 2) it will help you figure out what percentage YOU prefer it at. This is a huge advantage when evaluating a recipe you are considering. If you know you like flavor "X" at +/- 4%, and the recipe is calling for "X" at 13%, you will know you are probably going to want to dial that flavor back first. That beats mixing a batch that is never going to taste good to you, and wasting your time and wasting your materials, and wasting all that paper BECAUSE YOU WERE TAKING GOOD NOTES. ;)

We all get in to DIY for different/same reasons: to save money; to have more control over what goes into my juice; to create flavors that are perfect for me; because I am concerned about availability; and on and on and on.

But, regardless of why, the process is going to be fairly common. It takes time, understanding, practice/repetition, and LOTS of patience. Because Mixing is more like cooking than baking. Baking is very precise. You need to use precise amounts of ingredients that are mixed and baked in a particular way. Whereas cooking has much greater latitude based on ingredients chosen (thin steak vs. thick steak, steak vs. chicken, etc.) and how I like to eat them (raw, rare, burnt... you get the idea).

The best cooks know AND understand their ingredients. And the best mixers know and understand their ingredients.

The only (successful) shortcut I know of is if you are lucky enough to know someone who shares your palette. Then you can piggyback and duplicate his/her recipes. This still won't really give you any real help to start creating your own recipes though.

Otherwise you are just slinging stuff together and praying that it is vapable. This includes randomly choosing recipes off the internet. It is not much more than a crapshoot; and some are perfectly content with that. And that is fine... for them. If you want to create good juice you have to put in the time. Time reading the forums and blogs, time trying and failing, time trying and succeeding, and time making notes! :lol:

My own journey has taken me high-flavor-mixing, low-flavor-mixing, speed-steeping (I HATE that word! It is NOT "steeping!" Steeping is defined as "extracting" and we are not "extracting" anything. We are merely giving it a chance to blend/meld/mature... OK; climbing down off my soap box again :oops: ) via ultrasonic, heat, mechanical shakers, messure-by-volume, messure-by-weight, and on and on and on.

And I have only been mixing exclusively for about a year and a half! And my journey isn't over. But I am learning what works for me. That doesn't mean that it will work for another single soul... but it works for me.

We each need to figure out what works for ourselves. That is the journey. That is the FUN!

Cheers!:toast:
 

seek2

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Good post.

It is quite amazing what time will have on a juice. Many times I would get a juice and vape it and know it's not ready. Or come across some juice that I haven't touched for a while and see the flavor is more intense.

I do wonder at what some juice brands are flavored at. Some are so powerful.
 

IDJoel

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It is quite amazing what time will have on a juice. Many times I would get a juice and vape it and know it's not ready. Or come across some juice that I haven't touched for a while and see the flavor is more intense.
Indeed! I have also seen some lighter flavors like fruits that will "peak" and then begin to deminish/fade. This can be important to know to because I don't want to make a 3 month-sized batch when I know it begins to fade after three weeks.
I do wonder at what some juice brands are flavored at. Some are so powerful.
You're not kidding! I think more than a few of us got started mixing by taking commercial juice and cutting it with a home-made unflavored pg/vg/nic base. That is how I started my DIY journey.

I think the manufacturers do it to be able to get it out the door faster (not having to sit on it and let it mature). And, with their profit margins, the increased cost is more than covered.
The only hint I have to offer today is to make smaller batches until you find a winner. Maybe 5ml at a time rather than 30ml so as not to waste ingredients if the batch doesn't work out.
I agree with you Just me. Though, as a person who uses a tank primarily, I have found myself going to 10-15mL test sizes. That way, I can drip a bit initially to get an idea, and again in a few day to a week. But when it starts getting close, I can vape a tank to get an idea of how I am going to like it for a longer period, and still have a tank's worth left to try after further aging.

Now for brand new flavors (to me) I will do my single flavor tests in much smaller batches until I can home in on whether I like it and what percentage I like it at. Same thing for new recipes that are "out there" for me. They sound good but I really have no idea if they are gonna be in my wheelhouse.
 

Just Me

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...I think more than a few of us got started mixing by taking commercial juice and cutting it with a home-made unflavored pg/vg/nic base. That is how I started my DIY journey.

I think the manufacturers do it to be able to get it out the door faster (not having to sit on it and let it mature). And, with their profit margins, the increased cost is more than covered.

To add, I think juice manufacturers make flavors stronger on purpose for those whose taste buds are compromised from years of smoking, so those folks can actually taste the flavors. For someone just getting away from burning tobacco, that might be needed. When all the mouth and nose senses start clearing and healing, those same flavors can be overwhelming.
 
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