Steeping

[intog]

I see steeping mentioned everywhere and I'm sure everyone has their favorite technique but I can't find a master(sticky) thread pertaining to it. Please help me and everyone else by answering the questions below. This could pertain to either DIY or premixed.

1. How long on average should a juice steep?

2. Does the juice need to sit with the cap off for one day?

3. Does the juice need to be in a dark place? Can it be touched or sampled regularly?

4. Does container shape/size affect steeping time? for instance, I have a 60ml bottle of juice, if I break it up into 12 5ml containers would it steep quicker? What if I took 10ml of juice and put it in a large shallow dish, would it steep quicker as most of the surface is exposed to air?

5. does oxygen affect steeping time, or resulting flavor?

6. What types of flavors need to steep longer?

7. do PG/VG ratios and Nic mg effect steeping time?

8. What affect do temperatures have on steeping?

9. If I am mixing 2 steeped flavors, do they have to steep again?

10.For DIY flavors, is there a correlation between the taste of fresh mixed juice and the taste of steeped juice. for instance, when you freshly mix a juice, do you know by the taste that it will be better once it steeps? do you know by the taste that it will be a failure reguardless of steeping?

11. When making adjustments to flavors, should you steep each time? and for how long?

12. juice sitting still? or juice moving while steeping?

13. What is your steeping technique?

Please feel free to add other questions you may have.

 

[lynleestar]

great questions, and definitely a topic that needs a bit of clarification

 

[WomanOfHeart]

Steeping, or aging, is just as subjective as individual tastes but I'll try to answer your questions to the best of my ability.

1. How long on average should a juice steep?

This is completely up to you. Some juices taste great immediately, others might take a few days. The easy answer is a juice should steep until you're satisfied with it.

2. Does the juice need to sit with the cap off for one day?

I don't think so, but this is strictly a matter of opinion.

3. Does the juice need to be in a dark place? Can it be touched or sampled regularly?

I don't think it has to be a dark place. Just don't stick the bottle in a sunny window and you should be fine. Again, this is just my opinion. You can touch it and sample it all you want. It's your juice.

4. Does container shape/size affect steeping time? for instance, I have a 60ml bottle of juice, if I break it up into 12 5ml containers would it steep quicker? What if I took 10ml of juice and put it in a large shallow dish, would it steep quicker as most of the surface is exposed to air?

I don't know that dividing a large bottle into smaller bottles will make much of a difference. I haven't actually tried it.

5. does oxygen affect steeping time, or resulting flavor?

Unless you have a hyperbaric chamber, no. Ambient air is only 21% oxygen anyway, so I don't think it makes much of a difference.

6. What types of flavors need to steep longer?

I've found that some lighter, fruity flavors like blueberry, blackberry and strawberry benefit by steeping for at least a day. Your results might be completely different.

7. do PG/VG ratios and Nic mg effect steeping time?

I haven't really tried to figure this out. My initial response is no, but I usually mix or buy my juice at 50/50.

8. What affect do temperatures have on steeping?

Since our weather has turned cold, it's been my experience that steeping takes a little more time, but it doesn't add more than a day or so. I know that flavors are dulled when the juice is cold and comes back to life when it's warmed again.

9. If I am mixing 2 steeped flavors, do they have to steep again?

I wouldn't think so. Just mix them and try it! You'll find your answer then.

10.For DIY flavors, is there a correlation between the taste of fresh mixed juice and the taste of steeped juice. for instance, when you freshly mix a juice, do you know by the taste that it will be better once it steeps? do you know by the taste that it will be a failure reguardless of steeping?

DIY involves a lot of taste testing before you get to the final mix. I let all of my final mixes rest for a day before I vape them.

11. When making adjustments to flavors, should you steep each time? and for how long?

This is pretty much the same as Question #9.

12. juice sitting still? or juice moving while steeping?

I might shake my juice once a day, but for the most part I just leave it alone while it's steeping. No sense in overcomplicating it.

13. What is your steeping technique?

Shake once and test once a day, if I remember. I've had a couple of juices that sat for a couple of weeks undisturbed that tasted great when I remembered them again.

 

[banjo]

Check out this video - most of the info you asked for: YouTube - Steeping Tips and Tricks

 

[smonomo]

This is a joke right???

Some of the things you mention will rapidly accellerate the degradation process for sure, notably dumping the liquid into a dish and letting it sit...good greif!!!!.. don't even think about it,.. next thing you know, dogs, cats, and kids will be lapping it up....too late now though, it's out there on google already, and dopey people are going to be trying this new and improved method of steeping ...good freakin greif!!!!!!!

I'm afraid you're just another victim of a ridiculous notion someone had that spread through the forum like a wildfire, eliquid has a shelf life, it slowly degrades day after day, week after week, month after month...use it or lose it.

Keep it in the bottle with the top on, in a cool dark place, smoke it, replenish as needed.

 

[RedAlert]

I have never found any benefit to steeping. The flavors that seemed off from the start(fresh mixed) never changed for better or worse. Tasted the same from day 1 to after a month. Mind you I did order these, didnt DIY them, so they did "steep" in the mail for 2-3 days.

And I do agree with WomanofHeart, cold juice isnt all that tasty, try them at room temp for best flavor.

 

[AlmightyGod]

Keep it in the bottle with the top on, in a cool dark place, smoke it, replenish as needed.

I agree. The idea of leaving the bottles open & allowing evaporation and nic degradation seems silly to me.

 

[intog]

This is a joke right???

Some of the things you mention will rapidly accellerate the degradation process for sure, notably dumping the liquid into a dish and letting it sit...good greif!!!!.. don't even think about it,.. next thing you know, dogs, cats, and kids will be lapping it up....too late now though, it's out there on google already, and dopey people are going to be trying this new and improved method of steeping ...good freakin greif!!!!!!!

I'm afraid you're just another victim of a ridiculous notion someone had that spread through the forum like a wildfire, eliquid has a shelf life, it slowly degrades day after day, week after week, month after month...use it or lose it.

Keep it in the bottle with the top on, in a cool dark place, smoke it, replenish as needed.

Wow, excuse me for being new and asking questions. I think you need a real cig to calm yourself down. It wasn't a new and improved method... it was a list of questions that I wondered about.

 

[Meggalette]

I think all of your questions are not a joke, I had a lot of the same questions when I started vaping. I have a tackle box that I put my wonky bottles of juice in. I don't DIY, only order from vendors. If the juice doesn't taste quite right when I first get it, I leave it in its original bottle and put it in the tackle box for a week or so and try it again later. If it doesn't taste good after that, I try mixing it with other juices to see what I get. Sometimes no amount of "steeping" or mixing will save a juice, you just won't like some. I wouldn't expose it to open air though, evaporation might take half your juice away. For the most part, I think its trial and error, experiment until you find what works for you. But if you order your juice, try it when you get it. The time it takes to ship to you may be enough time for it to be perfect when you get it.

PS Don't worry about the negativity. Veterans can tend to forget that what is common sense to them, isn't necessarily common sense to everyone else!

 

[intog]

Check out this video - most of the info you asked for: YouTube - Steeping Tips and Tricks

yup, I saw this video last week and that's what got me thinking about different variables that may affect steeping time and quality. There seems to be differences of opinion on whether to leave it capped or uncapped. I have tried both in the last couple weeks and haven't seen a detectable difference between the two. Actually I only tasted a slight difference in taste after the color change and wondered if I really needed to let it sit for an entire week. There are countless examples on ECF of people who let nasty liquid sit and come back to find it had transformed into a wonderful vapable juice, I was just asking questions that may help get to the bottom of it all.

 

[intog]

I think all of your questions are not a joke, I had a lot of the same questions when I started vaping. I have a tackle box that I put my wonky bottles of juice in. I don't DIY, only order from vendors. If the juice doesn't taste quite right when I first get it, I leave it in its original bottle and put it in the tackle box for a week or so and try it again later. If it doesn't taste good after that, I try mixing it with other juices to see what I get. Sometimes no amount of "steeping" or mixing will save a juice, you just won't like some. I wouldn't expose it to open air though, evaporation might take half your juice away. For the most part, I think its trial and error, experiment until you find what works for you. But if you order your juice, try it when you get it. The time it takes to ship to you may be enough time for it to be perfect when you get it.

PS Don't worry about the negativity. Veterans can tend to forget that what is common sense to them, isn't necessarily common sense to everyone else!

I'm not too worried about "veteran" forum members. I'm a member of several forums (non PV related) and they all have them... just like in the real world. My concern is with other members. How are they going to feel free to ask questions if they are afraid of getting ridiculed for it. Some questions may lead to other questions, which in turn lead to answers that no one would have thought of. Isn't that what part of what forums are for in the first place? I never understood those type of people.

My failed DIY mixes and purchased juices that I can't stand get dumped into a reject bottle organized by like flavors (like mint, fruit, coffee, etc..) then I slowly mix them into juices that I do like in small enough quantities that extend the life of the ones I like without destroying the taste.

 

[Meggalette]

My failed DIY mixes and purchased juices that I can't stand get dumped into a reject bottle organized by like flavors (like mint, fruit, coffee, etc..) then I slowly mix them into juices that I do like in small enough quantities that extend the life of the ones I like without destroying the taste.

That's a great idea. Usually after trying to mix bad juices with good ones that still turn out bad I just pitch them in the trash. I'll try this, then at least I won't feel like I'm wasting so much!

 

[Vapenstein]

1. How long on average should a juice steep?

Most juices don't need to at all. Some juices will improve to a slight degree as they sit. A very few will undergo radical changes for the better. In my experience, some Backwoods Brew and all Halo juices need to be opened once, recapped, and then put back in storage for 3 weeks. Halo juices really go through a drastic change, going from practically unvapeable to magic. Like I said though, the vast majority of juice doesn't need aging.

2. Does the juice need to sit with the cap off for one day?

I don't like the sound of that. I don't do it.

3. Does the juice need to be in a dark place? Can it be touched or sampled regularly?

Dark storage is best. We don't know whether juice is photosensitive or not, but since light can affect wine and spirits I am going with dark storage. Sample it as much as you want, just don't leave it uncapped.

5. does oxygen affect steeping time, or resulting flavor?

I am a believer that brief exposure to atmosphere is a catalyst for whatever changes do occur. I do not believe in letting it sit uncapped for long periods though.

6. What types of flavors need to steep longer?

In my experience, only tobacco juices are affected by this phenomenon.

7. do PG/VG ratios and Nic mg effect steeping time?

Doesn't appear to be a factor, in my experience.

8. What affect do temperatures have on steeping?

According to Halo, cold inhibits steeping. Dark, room temperature storage is your best bet.

 

[smonomo]

I think you need a real cig to calm yourself down.

Good one

Not gunna do it though

I guess you asked for it with the dish thing.

Anyway, steep on this - The countless stories are just the same today as they were over a year ago before the advent of steepage. Someone tries a juice, they don't like it, too weak, too this, too that, they hit it a few more times over a two week period and it now becomes their all time favorite, nothing to do with "steeping" or airing out because the juice in question is "presteeped" Dekang, and subsequent bottles are good from day one, it has happened to me several times.

 

[ImJustAvg]

Personally, the only time I steep is when I get a flavor that just doesn't seem to taste like it should. I ordered apple cider and it tasted more lick licorice than apple cider, so I open up the bottle (and drip tip) and let it sit in a closet for a day. Then every 3 days would open the bottle let fresh air in and then shake it. After about two weeks I tried it again and then it tasted like apple cider instead of licorice. BUT I did notice that the TH wasn't as strong (probably from the nicotine evaporating)

 

[intog]

Good one

Not gunna do it though

I guess you asked for it with the dish thing.

Anyway, steep on this - The countless stories are just the same today as they were over a year ago before the advent of steepage. Someone tries a juice, they don't like it, too weak, too this, too that, they hit it a few more times over a two week period and it now becomes their all time favorite, nothing to do with "steeping" or airing out because the juice in question is "presteeped" Dekang, and subsequent bottles are good from day one, it has happened to me several times.

yeah, I probably mistyped on the "dish" thing... I really meant a large flat container (with a lid). anyway, I'm weary about the whole steeping thing. I just made some DIY waffle flavor and it's not terrible... it's got a funny aftertaste, but I think you just keep trying it and you get used to the flavor and eventually it taste good or tastes... ok.

 

[GoodDog]

The veterans have seen this scam over and over and now there's even videos about it. LOL It's a way for vendors to evade responsibility and put the blame on customers. Sure, some juice may "age" better than others (after a day or two), but if it has a dramatic change something is added that I sure don't want in my lungs! I'm not sure what additives some of these suppliers are adding that makes their juice better after months of "steeping" but it isn't anything someone doing DIY adds.

If you feel veteran attitudes are negative maybe look at why and consider we have seen these vendors tactics from the first day they started. Some have the most outrageous claims in order to garner a larger piece of the pie. We really do care about new members getting the correct information and that's getting harder and harder here on ECF. It may seem like we're bashing vendors when in fact we're trying to protect consumers from some of these snake oil salesmen and their paid minion.

 

[Vapenstein]

The veterans have seen this scam over and over and now there's even videos about it. LOL It's a way for vendors to evade responsibility and put the blame on customers. Sure, some juice may "age" better than others (after a day or two), but if it has a dramatic change something is added that I sure don't want in my lungs! I'm not sure what additives some of these suppliers are adding that makes their juice better after months of "steeping" but it isn't anything someone doing DIY adds.

If you feel veteran attitudes are negative maybe look at why and consider we have seen these vendors tactics from the first day they started. Some have the most outrageous claims in order to garner a larger piece of the pie. We really do care about new members getting the correct information and that's getting harder and harder here on ECF. It may seem like we're bashing vendors when in fact we're trying to protect consumers from some of these snake oil salesmen and their paid minion.

I get what you're saying, but what about vendors who are doing something that DIYers aren't? We both know the majority of juice is flavoring squirted in whatever PG/VG blend. No different than what you could make at home. I'm not even talking about making your own tobacco extracts, which you could do at home, even though few probably do. I do believe natural extracts may cause juice to develop differently in the bottle, and that may be why some vendors juice does change.

What about vendors who are getting their flavors through some means that we don't have access to, ie. advanced chemistry? I don't know how else to describe a juice that goes from hair spray to delicious cigar in the space of a couple of weeks, but I saw it happen myself.

I think some veterans are so steeped in how things used to be (not many choices, juice you bought was no different than what you could make yourself) that they can't acknowledge that as some artisanal juice starts to become available to the end user that this stuff is a different animal than the traditional flavoring plus base they're familiar with. I think they're wrong.

 

[GoodDog]

Well, if they are adding some genetically engineered additive I sure would want to know and have the choice whether or not to trust their non-chemist, money-hungry intentions, wouldn't you?

BTW... to test this concept for myself I dug out some 9 month old TV and tried to vape it. It was the nastiest tasting juice I've ever had and it WAS one of my favorites. The chocolate had turned a dark brown and lost most of the chocolatey taste. It tasted bitter and left a horrible tasting film in my mouth. After nearly a week I still can't get the brown stain off my upper dental plate. Now that sounds healthy, huh? But hey, it's got to be better than cigarettes.

 

[Vapenstein]

Well, if they are adding some genetically engineered additive I sure would want to know and have the choice whether or not to trust their non-chemist, money-hungry intentions, wouldn't you?

No, but as this market grows and represents a larger and larger source of potential revenue it's naive to think that more resources aren't thrown at developing methods and ingredients that result in better juice. As long as the producers are forthcoming about what's in the bottles, I'm ok with that, provided we end up with better juice.