successfully rebuilding protanks without non resistive wire. a myth???

[Benzin]

I gave up using protanks (with factory heads) long ago. Today just for giggles i rebuilt a head for my protanks. First few minutes of use i got great taste, no burnt undertones like the factory ones and great vapor.
Just as i was starting to consider giving my protanks a 47th chance, bam! i start getting burnt rubber taste.

Rebuilt 2 more heads, same story.
Upon taking the heads apart, i see the rubber grommet at the bottom with burn marks.

Even before doing any research on the issue, i tought, well this is really no surprise! why should the kanthal only get hot at the coil, and remain cool below it? and that kanthal touches the grommet!

After doing some research here and in other places, i find a lot of people having this same problem. I also see sugestions of doing double wire on the legs of the coils (with apparent mixed results), and using non resistive wire along with the kanthal.
No surprises either! kanthal will get hot! its what it does!
To me, it seems obvious that NR wire is needed to make the legs of the coil!

What i cant figure out is how come i see dozens of "experts" in youtube building these heads without using NR wire, and even without doing double wire legs, claiming they work perfectly?
Howcome apparently many people have success following those videos and get "excellent results"?

maybe im missing something here???

 

[ScottP]

I have been rebuilding the new Kanger heads with the silicone grommets instead of rubber.

 

[Benzin]

I have been rebuilding the new Kanger heads with the silicone grommets instead of rubber.

Are the grommets not burning (does silicone have more heat tolerance than rubber), or they do burn but dont taste bad?

 

[ScottP]

They darken where the wire touches but don't actually burn, smoke, or alter flavor.

 

[ScottP]

I will add this too, I rarely noticed any burning of the older rubber grommets either. Although it did happen occasionally. I build my coils in the 2.4ohm range and only put 7watts through them, that's about 4.1 volts. If you are using more than that or a lower resistance that could be a contributor. Either way try to get some of the new version of the heads with the silicone and try those.

 

[Benzin]

Mine came out arround 2.5 ohms as well. I did however put 8.5 watts thru them.
Maybe thats the "mistery" of why some people succeed rebuilding them without using NR wire and some dont. The ones that succeed use low power levels while the others use more power.

 

[danny4x4]

Scott's right. Silicon grommet works better.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/490677-possible-stinky-grommet-replacement.html

I've tried using nr wires for the legs, and it's more hassle than I prefer. And with the limited space in the heads, it's a pita. So I just stick to micro coils and resistance wires. The legs don't get as hot as a conventional coil.

 

[crxess]

Op, More to coil building than just wrapping wire. You have to understand what is going on in each type of build.

Clearo Type Tanks - Top or Bottom coil

Clearo Tanks depend on Pressure contact to power coil. Rather than attaching with Screws, legs of the Coil are pinched against their respective +/- surfaces.
Close attention must be taken to assure the Surfaces are Clean of any Contaminants(e-liquids,Carbon, etc.)
Inside of Housing and Pin should be perfectly prepped
Wash and dry hands - Latex gloves for oily Skin - even body oils will increase resistance at the leg contact points.
Kanthal should be Torched before wrapping coil to remove any contaminants.
Resistance and Power levels need to be considered in the build due to coil attachment.
Low ohms Can generate heat Fast
High Power Can generate Heat Fast
Poor wicking Can generate heat Fast
Extended Draws Definitely create more Heat

Don't blame equipment for not doing what it can not do. Consider your Needs and Buy/Build accordingly.

 

[beckdg]

i've put 15 watts through mine without burning. quite frequently, too.

i've put 7 watts through mine and got the most horrid, gasping burnt rubber taste ever.

everything is a factor with the protanks. if you build them with mirco coils and larger wire such as 28 gauge and the air flow gets restricted a tad from a squished grommet (usually assumed too tight on the 510 connector), the heat from the coil itself (not the legs) can heat up the whole chamber including the grommet.

the wick has to be right.
the coil has to be right.
can't have any grounds from the coil to the cup.
legs must be terminated firmly.
can't have hangers after leg termination on the pin side (under the grommet).
grommet can't be squished.
ideally, you want your coil not to take up the entire cup.
having the coil centered in the cup is ideal.
an extra o-ring under the head to raise the head up in the base might be ideal if your mod has a high pin in the 510 connector.
etc.
etc.
etc.

once the stars are aligned, you will find the protanks perform beautifully.

and silicon really does minimize the stench. though, with a bad build, you might still taste it.

 

[Ken_A]

I have NEVER rebuilt with non-resistant wire. 4-5 wraps of 32 gauge Kanthol and my builds run between 1.7 and 2.4 on the Ω reader.
I do not put more than 7 WATTS through it. I use 50/50 un-colored juice.
I get plenty of vapor and flavor, no burning.

 

[Christopherja]

Good tips here, OP.

Just to add though that I rebuild my MiniPT2 heads all the time - 30AWG, 1.2mm, 1.8Ω - and have never had any problems with burning rubber grommets.

You might want to check this thread too - http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html

My guess is that the legs of your build are getting too close to one another upon reinsertion of the grommet and positive pin.

 

[HughDaHand]

I have probably rebuilt protank heads about 100 times without NR wire and never had a problem with burning the rubber. All with the old style heads. I am no expert on how this all works but my theory is that there are a lot of things going on here. All my coils tend to heat up from the middle of the wraps outwards, with the legs seldom getting very hot, unless I am doing a dry burn. Also when you trap the wire under the insulator the body of the head and the center pin also start to work as NR wire, as long as the coil is not pulling the rubber away from the metal of the head. I also think these parts are working a little as heat sinks drawing a little head away from the legs of the coils. I also would cut power from the coil about 1-2 secs before stopping my draw, helping to cool the coil back down between hits during chain vaping.

I think there are also a few reasons that some people have problems with the grommet burning. I think the biggest one is just sloppy coil mounting. The legs a little long inside the head touching the grommet too much, or pulled to tight and pulling the grommet away from the head. A long slow draw might let the coils heat up too much burning the grommet, or chain vaping that heats the coil to much. Poorly wrapped coils that lead to hot legs could also be a factor. Trying to run at to high of a voltage might also be a factor. Plus other things that I never even considered.

Looks like I kinda rambled on there a little bit.

 

[Rickb119]

Also, everyone tastes things differently. One person will make a DIY mix at 3% flavoring and think it's strong. Another person will make the same mix at 10% and think it's weak. I don't taste the rubber on my micro coil builds but my sister and others do.

Sean, at Lightning Vapes, originally advertised and sold the rubber insulators as silicone because that's what he was told they were. He has since changed it to show that they are in fact rubber. He DOES have the silicone insulators in stock, however he is waiting for more feedback before he puts them on his site. If you contact him (via his website) he will let you know how to order them.

 

[Benzin]

I dunno guys. Could it be sloppy coil placement or malformed coils on my part? im shure it could! i am by no means an expert or very experienced in building coils. I just started about a month ago with my RDAs.
But in all honesty, right now what i cant understand, is how they do work for some people. I mean, how do they make the kanthal not get hot on the spots that touch the grommet?
The one thing i forgot to check is, do the heads come with NR wire from the factory or just kanthal? I do have more heads, but they are new in their box.

Oh well, like i said before this was just an experiment. Im so happy with my RDAs and iClear30Ss that i dont have an urgency to use my protanks any time soon. I guess when i have the time ill give microcoils a try.

 

[beckdg]

one thing is to make sure the heat is concentrated at the coil instead of the legs. micro coils definitely help in this respect.

 

[cope]

all this effort...i wasted alot of time rebuilding pro tanks...not anymore i recently purchased a russian 91 the hassle is over...lol it was time to move up anyway

 

[jersey_emt]

Get a wire welder and you'll be able to build coils with NR legs very easily.

 

[Myrany]

Get a wire welder and you'll be able to build coils with NR legs very easily.

Getting one of those is not as easy as it sounds. I certainly have not found one.

 

[crxess]

Hey, don't worry yourself over this. It is true - Practice makes perfect.
No, the Factory uses straight NiChrome Wire (China Special) No Kanthal in Clearomizers.

Try running a bit higher resistances until you feel you have the perfect coils going.
A few details you want to work on.
Dead Even spacing and consistent Diameter coils.
Good Coil to wick Contact - Not overly tight(cuts wicking down) but full coil to wick contact

Preparation for installing coil:
Wire Burnt Grommet Can be reused - Wash and scrape spot with fingernail
Grommet does not sit in heated e-liquid and if you get everything right it will NOT produce more burnt taste.
Actual Head assembly - Brass Wire Brush - Thoroughly Clean to shiny Metal - Remove ALL Carbon tracing
Insert and Position Coil Assembly - I keep a sewing needle through my coil to hold position until complete
Drop Grommet over + coil leg
Hold Pressure on - Coil leg while securing Grommet
Once Secure, gently tug on - leg to remove all slack and Fold Leg over edge of opening
Hold Tension on + Leg and insert Pin
Tug lightly to remove all slack
Snip excess from Both Legs
Remove Needle
Test Resistance

Coil Test and Adjustment:
Attach to Partially Drained Battery or APV set to 3.0-3.3 Volts
Pulse 3-4 times at no more than 3 second Burst with 2-3 seconds Off between burst to Clean residue from coil
Take notice of Coil Glow
Now - Pulse once about 5 second to reach a Full Glow - **Coil should start Glowing from the middle out.**
* Proper Middle out is critical to keep Heat in the right place and off the Legs
Coils may be shifted, if needed, with a toothpick until spacing is even and Glow is consistently Middle Out.
***DO NOT OVERHEAT Housing or Coil During the Dry Pulsing Process - Allow everything to cool as needed***

For a 50/50 E-liquid, I set (2) 1mm Flavor wicks side by side, add 2 Drops of e-liquid and install the Chimney
Fill the Tank and install the Base/Coil
Cup the Tank, Base tightly in hand to cut air flow - Take several Draws to Prime the wicks. I normally set mine aside for 15 minutes of so.
Before using I re-prime with several Power OFF Draws then Vape as normal.

If not cleaned well, SOME Burnt taste may come from the Tanks Tube on the first few draws. If things are working properly this will quickly subside.

Practice, Practice, Practice

Best of Luck!

 

[Nightshard]

Been rebuilding protank heads for a while now.
Cotton micro coils, 0.30mm kanthal, around 2 ohms, 12W, no burned taste no nothing.
So you must be doing something wrong.
Sounds like a short to me.