Sucralose...Am I missing something here?

[Dracconus]

Okay, this may be my under-informed opinion, but sucralose is an artifical sweetener processed with chlorine...doesn't vaping that scare you a little? To quote wikipedia "the partially acetylated sugar is then chlorinated with a chlorinating agent such as phosphorous oxychloride"
Uhm...Phosophorous Oxyclhloride is highly toxic, hazardous, and Corrosive too...so..why the hell are we heating this up?

I'm not a Chemist, or scientist of any measure in this regard; but the little knowledge that i do have of such products scares the utter crap out of me about using sucralose.

I know that sugar will clog the atty; but I was thinking maybe confectioners sugar could work as it's got a less dense base.
Is there any "proof" yet that sucralose is safe? Or are we still operating under the rule of "has to be better than smoking, so let me mix some formaldehyde in here since I'm lacking the other 3999 chemicals in a smoke..."

 

[jcal]

Good Question,I'll be following this .As for me I'm still using ethyl maltol and still don't know what it is other than i'ts a simple sugar.

 

[opal]

*also thread watching..

I have seen that some folks have tried stevia as a sweetener.. not sure how that worked out though

 

[Cookster]

I won't use sucralose either, I use either EM or Marshmallow to sweeten. There has been some talk about using some sort of diluted Agave, but my DIY is sweet enough for me.

 

[zoiDman]

s there any "proof" yet that sucralose is safe? ...

I don't recall Anyone saying that Sucralose was "Safe". Or Flavorings or Colorants for that matter.

Many consider using Flavored / Sweetened e-liquids to be "Safer" than Smoking Cigarettes. Or as I like to say...

The Lesser of Two Evils.

 

[Dracconus]

I don't recall Anyone saying that Sucralose was "Safe". Or Flavorings or Colorants for that matter.

Many consider using Flavored / Sweetened e-Liquids to be "Safer" than Smoking Cigarettes. Or as I like to say...

The Lesser of Two Evils.

I understand that it's quoted as being "the lesser of two evils" but I'm asking more generally if anyone bothered to even research it before doing anything containing it. I myself have researched everything that I've put into my ecig, and that's the reason I only use natural oils. I'm certain that natural oils are safe as they're the same thing that are used in reed diffusion, and oil warmers, as well as baking and many other things.
Sucralose, on the other end of the spectrum, however is and has only been approved for use by the FDA for baking, and as a sugar substitute, indicating that it (so far) is only "safe" for human consumption; although no documentation or clinical trials exist that "I" am aware of stating whether it's safe for inhalation, or what it will do to the respiratory system is such action is performed.

Granted, the FDA isn't really the best source to trust for anything as their primary focus is on the global economic stature, and they're more or less controlled by our government although they're not directly associated with the US Government.

I know that natural peppermint, menthol, wintergreen, and spearmint are safe; because I've been inhaling them all my life whether heated in an oil warmer, in my clothes dryer, laundry detergent, etc., and even non-warmed in reed diffuser, and automatic air fresheners; but sucralose is an entirely different matter in my concerns.

Just because it's "the lesser of two evils" doesn't mean that it's safe. Using that method of thinking then I could just as simply say that we may as well just smoke rat poison, since it doesn't have all the other chemicals that a cigarette will...It'll be the "lesser of two evils."

I'm not trying to spark a debate, or anything of that matter. I just don't want the ecig community to fall under the whole categorical assumption that ignorance is bliss. I'd rather at least a minimal amount of research be done. I'm sure that SOME of the people that use these, and frequent forums such as these work in chemical testing labs, or have some sort of knowledge on the subject, and it's their opinions that I seek.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Just because it's "the lesser of two evils" doesn't mean that it's safe. Using that method of thinking then I could just as simply say that we may as well just smoke rat poison, since it doesn't have all the other chemicals that a cigarette will...It'll be the "lesser of two evils."

...

I never said that Sucralose was "Safe". I don't even know what "Safe" is for most people.

But if you have done the research you mentioned than I'm sure I don't have to tell you what happens when you Heat Sucralose. And at what temperatures it starts to break down. By the same token, I'm sure you have done some reading on the Habitual Inhalation of Oil Based Flavorings.

For any of this to be meaningful, why don't you start be saying how you define "Safe". That way were all on the same page.

 

[Dracconus]

I use it in a loosely intended form. "Safe" would be something that wouldn't cause us to have catastrophic respiratory or auditory damage. Something that wouldn't cause an outbreak of hives, or skin peeling, constant ........, or nausea, or even worse cause us to become vegetables laying in a hospital bed in a catatonic state simply because we were trying to help curve a habit that was causing us to do the same damn thing, just in a different manner.
I can take minor xerostomia (Dry Mouth) or a reaction such as hives, and the likes. However, in the same regard if it's something that contains the ability to make my hair fall out, or turn my teeth into sponges the way that crack could I'd like to know as that's a somewhat larger issue...LOL

Sure, it's the lesser of two evils, and I haven't discredited that at all. However, there are a fair amount of people that assume that just because it's IN the ecig it's 'safe', and people should have opinions, and concerns such as this addressed primarily for that purpose. I also understand that you're not saying it's safe, as I pointed out in the last post (at least I meant to, if I didn't.) I just don't think that we need to give up researching things once we've reached the conclusion that "it's the lesser of two evils." I'd like to see research continue past that point to ensure that even though it's the lesser, it's still worth it as an addition.
I'm sure that I'm not alone in this.

 

[zoiDman]

I agree with much of what you are saying.

It is troubling to me to read Post after Post from members saying that e-Cigarettes are Safe because PG/VG and Nicotine Safe.

I won’t go so far as to say that the Long Term Chronic Inhalation of Vaporized PG/VG is Safe myself. But what is troubling is that Flavorings, Sweeteners and Colorants are Very Seldom consider in the same sentence with regards to e-Cigarette safety. (BTW – How can even a Lay-Person consider Vaping Colorants to be a Safe practice?)

And there are other components of an e-Cigarette to consider.

There is a HUGE thread here on the ECF which considers whether or not using Silica Wicks is Safe. Many believe that they are not. And then there is the Obscure issue of Hexavalent Chromium. This would be Extremely tragic if atomizer wires were shown to leach Hexavalent Chromium into the Vapor Stream.

So perhaps my statement of “The Lesser of Two Evils” came across as Caviler and a Catch All to quash further discussion. It wasn’t meant to.

I firmly believe that Sucralose’s Safety, and ANY Sweetener, should be considered and discussed.

 

[Dracconus]

I agree with much of what you are saying.

It is troubling to me to read Post after Post from members saying that e-Cigarettes are Safe because PG/VG and Nicotine Safe.

I won’t go so far as to say that the Long Term Chronic Inhalation of Vaporized PG/VG is Safe myself. But what is troubling is that Flavorings, Sweeteners and Colorants are Very Seldom consider in the same sentence with regards to e-Cigarette safety. (BTW – How can even a Lay-Person consider Vaping Colorants to be a Safe practice?)

And there are other components of an e-Cigarette to consider.

There is a HUGE thread here on the ECF which considers whether or not using Silica Wicks is Safe. Many believe that they are not. And then there is the Obscure issue of Hexavalent Chromium. This would be Extremely tragic if atomizer wires were shown to leach Hexavalent Chromium into the Vapor Stream.

So perhaps my statement of “The Lesser of Two Evils” came across as Caviler and a Catch All to quash further discussion. It wasn’t meant to.

I firmly believe that Sucralose’s Safety, and ANY Sweetener, should be considered and discussed.

I'm totally with you on all of those notes. I ordered silica as a standby product until my hemp comes along. I plan on using it entirely as a wicking material as I'd rather inhale hemp than cotton (family has a few cotton fields, and believe me when I say if one of them burns and you're in it the smoke will tear you UP! As for silica, I'm not sure I agree with it, but it's DEFINITELY safer than the fiberglass cousin that's floating around out there, so I can understand its usage as a cheaper alternative.

I'm not 100% conscientious about everything going into my ecig; but the use of any chromium alloy, or the likes scares the abundant life out of me. Stainless steel wicking seems like it's the worst idea possible yet there are tens of thousands of people doing it simply because it's reported to work the best, yet they've forgotten the simple fact that Stainless is treated with Nickel, which is highly toxic to humans when inhaled, touched, or even simply exposed to.

Granted ecigs don't get hot enough to get most metals to their burning points, but that doesn't mean that at the degrees they DO hit something isn't happening.

I think truly, that a lot of the research that should have been done is being bypassed simply because things are being viewed as a solution, and that is what our governments are trying to stop. Sure, we're being guinea pigs, and assisting with population control if all of our methods kill us but DAMN, there have to be more than ten of us that want to live past our breaking of our old habit (smokers).

 

[klynnn]

I haven't used any of the sucralose. I use ethyl maltol crystals and make my own sweetener. I have never needed anything more. I really don't know that either is the safest but I know what is the cheapest to make.

 

[Dracconus]

I haven't used any of the sucralose. I use ethyl maltol crystals and make my own sweetener. I have never needed anything more. I really don't know that either is the safest but I know what is the cheapest to make.

Care to elaborate on "I make my own sweetener"?
I'm HIGHLY intriqued by alternative methods of sweetening people have come up with. For the meantime, as most of my fluids are fruit, or menthol base, I use wintergreen, or vanilla to sweeten, but it's not hitting hard enough, and I'm scared Ethyl Maltol might break the run of good luck I had with my last few DIY successes.

I'd appreciate it if you could private message, or post your method, Klynnn.
Thanks,
Dracconus

 

[Constance Shutts]

Splenda....
Sucralose - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[zoiDman]

Splenda....
Sucralose - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just curious...

How much Sucralose is in the Tradmarked Poduct called "Splenda"?

 

[Constance Shutts]

SPLENDA® is also the brand name for the ingredient sucralose. It is made through a patented, multi-step process that starts with sugar and converts it to a no calorie, non-carbohydrate sweetener. The process selectively replaces three hydrogen-oxygen groups on the sugar molecule with three chlorine atoms. Chlorine is a natural part of salt, which is found in many foods, like lettuce, tomatoes, mushrooms, melons, and peanut butter, and chlorine is added to most public water supplies. Chlorine is also a part of more complex molecules found in such things as lentils, peas, and potatoes. It is a part of daily life. In the case of sucralose, its addition converts sucrose to sucralose, which is essentially inert. The result is an exceptionally stable sweetener that tastes like sugar, but without sugar's calories. Sucralose isn’t broken down for energy, and is not recognized by the body as a carbohydrate.

 

[Constance Shutts]

Precision Nutrition » Research Review: Splenda: Is it Safe?

 

[zoiDman]

SPLENDA® is also the brand name for the ingredient sucralose. ...

NO.

Slenda is a Trademark.

Sucralose is a Chemical Compound.

 

[Dracconus]

Precision Nutrition » Research Review: Splenda: Is it Safe?

Safe in amounts for human consumption does NOT mean safe when heated, vaporized, and inhaled. The chlorination process is the one that concerns me the most and while you may write it off by saying "chlorine is safe, it's added to water" that'd be one of the most false things that you could state if you tried. Chlorine in ANY form is hazardous to our bodies in any amount, and has a vast amount of side effects that it can cause from blindness to vomiting, rashes, allergic reactions, and many other things. Let's not get it confused. I didn't ask whether SPLENDA was safe. Splenda has "natural flavors" as well as sucralose, and alcohol added to it. I'm asking about sucralose itself, as a chemical agent for sweetening, after being heated, vaporized, and inhaled what effects could we possibly be looking at, and why has no one considered this.
While I appreciate your tidbits of information regarding the process I'm already familiar with how sucralose is made; and why, and you would have known so had you read the first post instead of just coming here and reading a few of the last ones thinking you understood the intent of the topic.

Altering the atomic structure of a compound doesn't make the compound safe for all types of ingestion, inhalation, or contacts with the human body. If you'd care to do half as much research as you pretend to you'd notice that splenda, just like sweet n low, sugar, and everything else in this world HAS a limit of which can be safely consumed within a 24 hour period by humans of average weight, and health. Meanwhile we're shoveling this .... into our juices not knowing WHAT it could be doing to our lungs, and praying for the best when the fact of it is that for all we know it could potentially harm us more than inhaling heated menthol (WHICH MANY OF US ARE DOING ALREADY!)

I'm not trying to say that ecigs should be 100% safe, I'm just trying to make a point when I say that smoking ANYTHING that's composed of chlorine atoms just sounds like a BAD idea in my book. One could simply just go huff chlorine bleach, and drink tap water while eating dog feces, and jumping in a puddle of gasoline with a lit zippo in their hands if they want to assume things are safe to do.


Just to quote one simple thing in relation to the topic of research being your friend...try this on for size:

According to the U.S. Council Of Environmental Quality, "Cancer risk among people drinking
chlorinated water is 93% higher than among those whose water does not contain chlorine."

But, it's in our water, so it must be safe. Tell me again...why don't we have lead based paints in childrens toys? It's in our water.....

>.< UGH!

 

[classwife]

Moved to DIY E-Liquid from E-Liquid Recipes, this is not a recipe

 

[subversive]

"Safe" would be something that wouldn't cause us to have catastrophic respiratory or auditory damage. Something that wouldn't cause an outbreak of hives, or skin peeling, constant ........, or nausea, or even worse cause us to become vegetables laying in a hospital bed in a catatonic state simply because we were trying to help curve a habit that was causing us to do the same damn thing, just in a different manner.

I'm not a doctor or scientist. All I can tell you is that I have vaped sucralose for 1 year with no ill effects. I use it in very small quantities.

I am not concerned about PG/VG or nicotine. I am concerned about flavorings and colorings. The best thing to do is to keep percentage of flavoring down. Between menthol and sucralose, flavoring makes up less than 2% of my juice. I don't think that's the same as "shoveling this **** in our liquid."

Even though I do my DIY that way, I am still not averse to using heavily flavored vendor liquid on occasion. I can only go by how my body and lungs feel, and I haven't had anything but positive side effects from vaping. I do think unbiased, thoughtful, careful conversations on what we our consuming is warranted, but too many of these threads turn into wild, fear-mongering, anger-filled rants.
Newer vapers tend to treat this stuff like plutonium, and some of the older vapers seem too relaxed.

I was much more worried when I first started vaping than I am now. No one has had a death linked to vaping since e-cigs came out, and while that's a small sample size, it's been nearly ten years now since they became available in China. Other than occasional posts in the health subforum, which generally (imo) seem to be from people experiencing anxiety, we really haven't heard many negative effects.

The reason we discuss e-cigarettes in terms of "it's better than smoking" is because that is what we are replacing. That's the whole point. Most people don't switch to vaping because they are afraid of any possible impurity out there, but because we KNOW that smoking kills. We're not replacing pure air and water. We're replacing toxic, carcinogenic smoke. It's harm reduction, not harm elimination.