Supporting Local Brick and Mortar Stores

[codeflayer]

Hey there, I just started vaping seriously about two weeks ago. I've been toying around with it for about two years. One thing I've noticed in my area is that the prices at local shops are almost double what I would spend online.

For example, I recently purchased replacement coils for my Protank 2. Since I'd let myself run low and am now going through them much faster I ordered some online from Mt Baker and went to a local shop to buy some so I wasn't completely out. I spent less on 2 boxes plus shipping online than I spent for one box at the local store.

Checking around it seems to be the case that buying locally I will spend 1.5 to 2 times as much.

Since a lot of our local shops also participate in lobbying and awareness campaigns for vaper rights in our state, I really do want to support them. I'm cool with maybe paying 10% to 20% more locally because I understand that they have additional expenses but nearly twice as much? That seems like there's something wrong.

Is it like this everywhere or is my location outside the norm?

 

[kkahmann]

I only have one vape shop located within 130 miles of where I live and work. It's located in a mall and his overhead has to be insane. His prices are 50% to 100% higher than what I can get most things on-line. I hope he does well--he's really a nice guy and knowledgeable.

Price is only one part of the equation

 

[dhood]

This is a discussion that crops frequently in the forums. Some people buy exclusively from online vendors because the prices are almost always less - sometimes 1/2 the price of a B&M. Others split their buying between the two types of vendors. I'm sure there are some that buy exclusively from a local B&M but they probably aren't reading any posts on this forum. I personally split my purchases between the two. I support my locals because there are about 8 different vendors within 15 miles of where I live. This gives a bit of competition and keeps their prices down (somewhat - still almost always cheaper online).

Remember that local stores have rent, power, plumbing, and salaries to pay for. Online stores can be run out of someone's garage so the costs to run the business are much lower. If they need more space than a garage/basement to operate, there is plenty of cheap industrial space to rent that will be much cheaper than the convenient commercial space and they will probably never have a storefront you can visit.

One thing I've come to always buy locally is liquids. I've spent a bundle buying liquids online and I can't vape most of it - doesn't taste right to me. I don't rely on any online reviews any more for taste. I find that I need to taste the liquids to see if I like them. I can go through over 100 different juices at a B&M and I might find only one I like. Taste is just too subjective.

 

[dhood]

Also, some reasons I like my local guys. One shop will rebuild your coils on your tanks/drippers for you. Just drop by and they'll do it for you. They are always friendly and bend over backwards to help customers and introduce them to whatever they have questions about. They never try to push something at a cusotmer that they are not ready for. Another shop is trying to recreate a liquid I like but can't get locally right now. It's Bamskilicious' Kool Apple, an apple menthol. I can't find anything locally or online that even comes close to the flavor. I let the juice guy try it and he was really impressed with the flavor. He has his own line and had never tasted any apple flavor that full. Last time I talked to him he had replicated the apple flavor, but was having problems with the cool aftertaste that it has. The people in these shops around here are evangelists at getting people off analogs.

 

[DavidOck]

Yes, it's a toss up - and a crap shoot!

While I've found a couple online flavors I like, I also get a lot of my flavors from B&Ms. (I change flavors a lot.... other than a few that I prefer to never be without!)

Some shops are marked up more than I care to pay, but if they're reasonable in that area - and adding in potential shipping costs - I might give them the extra. While my business isn't likely to be what keeps 'em open, it can help. And having a B&M reasonably close is nice for those OOPS! I'M OUT!! moments is nice. As is supporting the local economy.

Depending on the item, 1 1/2 times the cost may be "reasonable" to me...

 

[MsShona]

I think it depends on what you are buying. Many accessory items such as coils, drip tips, and cases can have an incredible markup. There's a greater range on staples such as batteries and tanks. I mean you "could" find a B&M store selling a basic 650 mAh EGO Battery for $25; but there are plenty who are selling them at a much more reasonable price (like in the $10-$15 range). On things such as 3rd party e-liquid, they are often required to sell the item at a particular price by the vendor (they have their own standards and marketing...and yes price is an aspect of marketing) to control.

I picked up my Kanger EMOW starter kit at my local B&M for $45. The owner said that's about equal to the cheapest online price + average shipping. I found that to be about right. Even if I did spend a little bit more, he made plenty of profit off of the case, drip tips and house e-liquid I purchased from him. Smart B&M owners will know how to upsell high margin items along with competitively priced items that someone may only buy once or twice a year vs. every month or so.

 

[DavidOck]

Also, some reasons I like my local guys. One shop will rebuild your coils on your tanks/drippers for you. Just drop by and they'll do it for you. They are always friendly and bend over backwards to help customers and introduce them to whatever they have questions about. They never try to push something at a cusotmer that they are not ready for. Another shop is trying to recreate a liquid I like but can't get locally right now. It's Bamskilicious' Kool Apple, an apple menthol. I can't find anything locally or online that even comes close to the flavor. I let the juice guy try it and he was really impressed with the flavor. He has his own line and had never tasted any apple flavor that full. Last time I talked to him he had replicated the apple flavor, but was having problems with the cool aftertaste that it has. The people in these shops around here are evangelists at getting people off analogs.

That too! Hard to get service like that over the web....

 

[lownote2]

I almost always support the local b&m's. Yes, I have purchased a few things online. One mod, which was considerablly cheaper, some juices and recently an rda for the egrip (because no local shop here had them or I would have suppported them)

Yes, online is many times a cheaper alternative, but I like my local guys and if we all start buying online they will disappear. One thing to keep in mind that has worked for me is to at least give the local guys a chance. Usually works if you can talk to the owner, but if you find something online cheaper that they have ask them if they can do better. I still understand that they have overhead and that they maybe can't completely come down to a certain price, but often they will come down. Don't make a scene in front of everyone, just quietly away from others explain the situation. That has met with a good compromise and still saved me money more than once. For instance, back when the MVP was just coming out and popular it could be found for $50 online. Local shops were all over the place, but more in the $70 range. I talked to the owner of my favorite shop and told him I wanted it, but wasn't going to spend 70 for something I could order for 50 (with free shipping) I ended up paying $60 and was happy and so was he.

 

[BigCatDaddy]

I see it a lot. Some places sell clones at near authentic prices. I visit a lot of shops and prices vary widely. Juice markup is really crazy, around 500% and more. I DIY my own juice and can easily make a 30 ml of "premium" juice for about $2.50, glass bottle, labels, and all. I know those shops have to pay rent, utilities, payroll, not to mention the products themselves, but some places are just piling it on, IMHO. But I guess as long as people are willing to fork over their hard earned dough, they are well within their rights to keep charging what they do. We, as consumers, also have the right to shop around and pay the best price we can find.

 

[KLR650Tagg]

Same here. Locally, prices are astronomical, $90 for a IPV Mini?, i don't thing so!.

 

[codeflayer]

To further elaborate on my local situation:
It seems we have two choices here. Boutique shops that are trying really hard to sell high end. They usually have what you're looking for but at a premium. Or, we have the smoke/head shop that happens to stock some token vape merch. Their prices are more reasonable but the often dont have what you need.
The guys running the boutique stores participate in local vaper rights issues. Obviously the other guys couldn't care less. It would be nice to find something in the middle.

 

[DavidOck]

Well, if it came with a PAIR of high quality batteries, charger, Lemo....

Yeah, that's a bit much.

Too high a markup, and they'll lose to online sales. While they do need to make enough to keep the doors open, they don't need to do that on one item!

 

[codeflayer]

Same here. Locally, prices are astronomical, $90 for a IPV Mini?, i don't thing so!.

Had similar happen when I bought my MVP2. $50 online, $80 to $120 local.

 

[Javamon]

It's the same in my area.

I am basically finding that at a local b&m, the premium for juice is tolerable, and the premium for hardware is unacceptable.
They are not just charging a reasonable 20% or so to buy local. They are trying to Steal from unknowing new vapers.

I cited one example in another thread: one local b&m wanted $75 for an iStick 20w. Nah. That day, if they gave me a 50 or 55 dollar price, even though that is quite a premium over mail order, I would have given it to them to work with them.

The local b&m vape business will mirror the old PC business. Tons of stores at the beginning, only to eventually be replaced by a very small number of national mass market consumer chains. There's no way many of these local businesses have the financial equation to survive. And when they go down, they are going to deserve it.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

I look to the internet. I recently went to two vape shops to enjoy social vaping. They both had a lounge, but neither had a website.

When I go to Tucson, an hour away, I search for vendors so that I know where they are located. Then I work to include them into my route.

Getting into the digital "Yellow Pages" is good for business. Vapers, to me, seem to be big on searching.

 

[sofarsogood]

I think walk in vape shops will be responsible for a lot of people quitting so they are important. I've bought most of my hardware at a vape shop but not e liquids. Price is a big factor. The last eliquid I bought online came in a 240ml bottle. I don't see anyting in my vape shop larger than 30ml. DIY is on my road map because I want to save still more money and be more self sufficient because I'm concerned about government interference. I'm going to try and keep my liquids simple and inexpensive.

So can vape shops survive in the long run? When most of their new customers are newbies I think the answer is yes. They will pay the bills for some years to come depending on government interference. To keep the experienced people coming back they will need better prices and may be novel services. Does anyone remember small store front computer shops? Most of them disappeared as PCs got more main stream because people weren't looking for as much personal attention.

Here is a curious thing. There are several hundred thousand licensed tobacco retailers in Amerca, 37,000 just in California. Almost all of them sell ecigs supplied by their tobacco suppliers. So Ecig products are EVERYWHERE! Then a tiny mom and pop vape shop opens and it's a big deal and there are newspaper stories and the owner is interviewed and it is controversial even though their "ecig" products are in the same catagory as what's sold by dozens of big powerful nearby competitors who also sell tobacco while the little vape shop does NOT sell tobacco. The kids get their ecigs (and cigarettes) from tobacco retailers but it's the little vape shops that are controversial?

 

[race44287]

Our local B&M is equally outrageous in price. I realize you don't have the entire buying market at your doorstep like the internet does but near 5x mark up on stuff I know you got from fasttech is not right. I feel like the owners are knowingly taking advantage of new vapers for the sake of profits. I also found that our local b&m owner talks down to you like you know nothing about vaping. I just get that vibe that he doesn't care about vaping or vapers as much as financial gain. Weather they lobby for us our not that attitude towards customers is just as bad for vaping in general.

 

[Nibs91]

It's much more difficult to support B&Ms in a smaller city with 1 vape shop. I visited mine twice because they carry a juice I fell in love with. They "opened" in April '14 yet still haven't set up a proper store front. The floors are still cement, they've got a fake grass green carpet at the entrance, they carry more dripper liquids than anything else, the shop isn't heated enough.....

I know my observations are more superficial, but think of a new vaper walking in and seeing that "less than legit" look. Honestly I felt so shady walking in there. They don't even have a proper sign up. That's just not the way to start up a business....I know it takes up a whole lot of capital to do that. My dad just opened a restaurant about 6 years ago, and had he treated it the way the vape shop has; we would have went out of business. I honestly don't know how they are still operating. In 3 months it will be a year since their opening. Let's hope they at least have proper floors haha.

 

[ThunderDan]

My local B&M prices are pretty terrible too. $80 for ipv mini, $20 for a 30ml bottle of their nothing special house blend juice, $65 for a KFL+ clone. Sometimes I don't mind buying ejuice, or a single Atlantis coil ($5) if I'm out and about an need one, but most of the time I just can't justify their price gouging.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[OlderNDirt]

I guess I must be one of the luckiest people/vapers in the world. Although I have to travel 100+ miles each way to get to a vape shop (yeah, there are 2 within 25 miles, but are small town undersupplied shops), I am batting 1000 on hitting pretty good ones in "the city". No, they don't have great selections and their prices are higher then online (but never twice the price or higher), but they are there and do a great job taking care of me. Although my visits are rare, they know me, my equipment, my favorite juices, and where I am coming from. I look forward to when I can/do make a trip to check out what they have to offer in equipment and juices and have a good visit with them on the industry. I'm very thankful they are there.

Having said that, they do not get all my vaping business and they know they don't. But they understand my situation and don't hold it against me when I walk in with my subtank knowing I didn't buy it there. It was great when on a second or third visit, I walk in and they immediately say hi and want me to try a new juice they just came up with that they think may be in my wheelhouse. Even when my wife called them to purchase a gift certificate for me for Christmas, they asked who it was for and she mentioned a hat I usually wear and they responded with "oh, yeah. Dan from (name of town)".

So I have spent more on some items at the B&M and I have made some purchases online that they just couldn't provide or come reasonably close to online. Having found my seven favorite juices so far from them (their house blends), I really want to see them still around on my next trip. If spending an extra $5 for 5 coils helps, that is a small price to pay. If they go away, I will have no other choice but to buy online or travel out of state for vaping paraphernalia.

Being as remote as I am yet still having access to some very fine B&M's, I am somewhat surprised at those seemingly from large cities proclaiming all B&M's are not worth going to. No question there are some bad or poorly run shops and some that are disgustingly overpriced, but surely there are some good ones sprinkled in. Look around and make an effort to find them, even if it requires a little longer drive out of your way. I've been around long enough to know that vaping is not the only business/industry with both great and pathetic establishments. Find the good ones. avoid that bad ones, and the bad ones will eventually disappear.