TFA Sweetener actually contains maltol as well as Sucralose (not chemically identical to ethyl maltol, but I think it has pretty similar properties in a mix.) A small amount of EM can help take the sharp edges off certain flavors like citruses, but it can also mute flavors, especially at high percentages. You want to be a bit careful with it, IMHO, because it's already present in a _lot_ of flavors (there's a fair bit in TFA Strawberry (Ripe) and it's, by percentage, the primary ingredient in RY4 Double. RY4 Double actually has more EM in it than TFA Cotton Candy.) So you can wind up with quite a lot if you stack a few flavors that are high in it.
Sweeteners
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Their chromatography/spectometry results differ: Perfumer's Apprentice . Now, it's listed at <5%, which could mean that it is a very small percentage. But some of their other flavors have Maltol at <0.5%, so I'm a bit unsure why it would be listed at <5% in this case if it were very small.
That's Interesting.
Because I remember Contacting Linda and asking what Exactly was in TFA Sweetener. She told me PG, Water and Sucralose.
But that was a Number of years ago. So they Make-Up may have changed since then.
Yeah, or it could be the other way around, as those lists might be pretty old. It's a bit of a mystery. There are actually a few thing I find a bit mysterious about the TFA component lists though, so... perhaps I shouldn't be so definite in saying it contains maltol. I've seen a number of people say that it's 5% Sucralose and 5% EM, but I think that might have come from people misreading the component list.
EDIT: It's also in the SDS they have posted (amount not specified) though, as 3-Hydroxy-2-methyl-4-pyrone: https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/msds/342300.pdf. The dates on that are relatively recent, and I'd expect them to keep the SDS up to date.
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I have used Sucralose in the past.
For the past year or so, I have been using Stevia (Now Better Stevia) as it is Water, Stevia and Alcohol.
I would not advise using Agave nectar as that is an actual sugar.
For the past year or so, I have been using Stevia (Now Better Stevia) as it is Water, Stevia and Alcohol.
I would not advise using Agave nectar as that is an actual sugar.
Indeed, but we should really be precise when we talk about this. VG, for instance, is classed as a sugar-alcohol, not unfairly.
And this is the point. I'm on the fence about DAAP, but I'd prefer to avoid vaping things that burn (Ok, undergo reactions similar to caramelization if you want a better description) at the temperatures my liquid reaches. Fructose is one of those things, so I will avoid it. Goodbye, FW Yellow Cake. I loved you, but now we must part.
So are you saying that if a juice that has EM added to it sits for too long, the flavor will reduced? Also a follow up, how long does it take before a noticeable reduction in flavor occurs? I’ve never heard this before so I’m interested in your take and/or experience with this.
I have had flavor muted by EM if used in quantities over 1%. It takes a couple weeks usually but 3 or 4% will mute it considerably. Not good tasting though. A small amount around .5% or less will help blend flavors over time without muting them
Yea I’d agree with that. I don’t know the exact percentage I use but 3-4% is quite a bit. I use crystals so it would be hard to know the percentage but I’m not using even 1%. I put like a pinch in a 60ml bottle. I’m guessing that I’m using below 1% ,and likely below .5%, but I steep for a couple weeks and I’ve never noticed a muting of the flavor over time. I’m wondering at what percentage and what length of time before that would happen in other people’s experience.
It also mutes fruit flavors more than others. Takes the bite out of them. So can be ok with some over tart fruit flavor
Yes I use a small amount with tobaccos. About 1 drop per 10 ml of base. It seems to take away the dryness of the vape
EM is known to mute flavor. I believe that Maltol (which should be called MM rather than EM, because it differs from EM by having a methyl rather than an ethyl group,) has the same effect. The thing is that _a huge number_ of flavors use one, the other, or both, to some degree. Here's the list of TFA flavors that contain MM: Perfumer's Apprentice . And here's a list of TFA flavors that contain EM: Perfumer's Apprentice .
Not all companies are as transparent as TFA, but you should assume that sweet fruit flavors contain either MM or EM until proven otherwise (vanillin is another compound that can add sweetness, and some concentrates that use vanillin don't need much, if any, maltol to be sweet)- how much they contain is the question, and a lot of the difficulty of mixing is actually, I think, about balancing maltol levels.
This turns out to be important. If you use a lot of concentrates that are high in EM or MM in a recipe they will "stack," and the total concentration is what matters. Even very good flavors can turn ugly if you combine them with other flavors that also use the same molecules at high levels. Understanding how the molecules "stack" is critical.
100% agree. Thats where you have to be careful mixing. You add enough flavors that contain EM or MM and you wind up with a juice with virtually no taste. All flavors have a maximum level. In other words if strawberry ripe tops out at 8% and you add 10% you just partially muted some of the flavor. Now stack another flavor that contains the same molecules and you mute it more.
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