Synthetic or Non tobacco nicotine now available, thoughts, theories?

[Zakillah]

The problem with synthetic Nic is that there are two forms of it.
The tobacco plant produces only the one that actually gives a kick. Synthetic is a 50:50 mix of bio-active and bio-inactive Nic.
So that 100mg synthetic Nic is actually a 50mg Nic base.

 

[Vapntime]

Interesting. Any response from HiLIQ ? This doesn't look good for the industry, if HiLIQ is selling tobacco derived nicotine as synthetic and charging 6 times the price for it .... This is a test commissioned by a competitor, but i doubt they will issue a press release if the results can't be replicated.

More ammo for the FDA to claim rogue players in this industry, or perhaps evidence that the industry can police itself !?

Thanks, I will be talking to someone from HiLIQ soon. Cheers

 

[Verb]

The problem with synthetic Nic is that there are two forms of it.
The tobacco plant produces only the one that actually gives a kick. Synthetic is a 50:50 mix of bio-active and bio-inactive Nic.
So that 100mg synthetic Nic is actually a 50mg Nic base.

Actually, the less active isomer is consider 50% as active. So, at a 50/50 mix of the two produces nicotine that is 75% as active.

 

[Vapntime]

The problem with synthetic Nic is that there are two forms of it.
The tobacco plant produces only the one that actually gives a kick. Synthetic is a 50:50 mix of bio-active and bio-inactive Nic.
So that 100mg synthetic Nic is actually a 50mg Nic base.

Well not really the 'other' type of nic is active it is just not as potent. So 100mg would be approx 75mg active. Also the (R)-nicotine may have even more beneficial health benefits.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014299907002464

Sorry verb just got in first. Thanks mate

 

[Zakillah]

Alright, thx for the correction; another thing learned.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Well not really the 'other' type of nic is active it is just not as potent. So 100mg would be approx 75mg active. Also the (R)-nicotine may have even more beneficial health benefits.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014299907002464

Sorry verb just got in first. Thanks mate

May have more beneficial health benefits?

What exactly leads you to this line of thinking?


There appears to be zero advantage.

Cost more, still falls under all tobacco regs, unknown additives.
Healthy my .

This sounds like a shady attempt at a cash grab to my seasoned ears.

 

[snork]

May have more beneficial health benefits?

What exactly leads you to this line of thinking?


There appears to be zero advantage.

Cost more, still falls under all tobacco regs, unknown additives.
Healthy my .

This sounds like a shady attempt at a cash grab to my seasoned ears.

Perhaps, as far as vape juice goes.
But the R-nicotine does have different properties and effects. I'm only saying this because a scientisty-type guy told this to my face in person. Take that for what it's worth.

 

[zoiDman]

How do you think Judge Leon would have ruled in the Sottera ( Njoy ) case in 2011, if the nicotine was synthetic ? Would there have been an ecig market currently in the U.S ?

That is Actually a Very Good Foundational Question.

 

[Rossum]

That is Actually a Very Good Foundational Question.

... To which I think the answer is obvious.

"Yes, these things ARE unapproved drug delivery devices!"

 

[zoiDman]

... To which I think the answer is obvious.

"Yes, these things ARE unapproved drug delivery devices!"

Unfortunately... I believe that you are probably Correct.

Because Judge Leon's opinion was that as long as No Claims were made, or Marketed as a method to Quit Smoking, e-Cigarette use was the "Recreational Use of a Tobacco Product". If the Nicotine had Not been Derived from Tobacco, that would have been a hard Opinion to hold.

The Same Way today the Argument is being made that Nicotine that has Not been Derived from Tobacco are Not Tobacco Products.

 

[Vapntime]

May have more beneficial health benefits?

What exactly leads you to this line of thinking?


There appears to be zero advantage.

Cost more, still falls under all tobacco regs, unknown additives.
Healthy my .

This sounds like a shady attempt at a cash grab to my seasoned ears.

Do you have access to the full paper? Your questions will be answered there.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014299907002464
(R)-nicotine is only found in synthetic nicotine and has been considered safe for over a decade.

 

[Eskie]

Unfortunately... I believe that you are probably Correct.

Because Judge Leon's opinion was that as long as No Claims were made, or Marketed as a method to Quit Smoking, e-Cigarette use was the "Recreational Use of a Tobacco Product". If the Nicotine had Not been Derived from Tobacco, that would have been a hard Opinion to hold.

The Same Way today the Argument is being made that Nicotine that has Not been Derived from Tobacco are Not Tobacco Products.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Derived from natural tobacco, tobacco product. Chemically synthesized, a drug. Not a winning approach IMO.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Do you have access to the full paper? Your questions will be answered there.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014299907002464
(R)-nicotine is only found in synthetic nicotine and has been considered safe for over a decade.

Nothing in there suggest it would have health benefits over quality tobacco based nic as its mixed with tobacco based nic.

Watering it down doesn't equal health benefits.

It does show a "profit benefits" for vendors.

 

[zoiDman]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Derived from natural tobacco, tobacco product. Chemically synthesized, a drug. Not a winning approach IMO.

I saw/see it as the Lesser of Two Evils. The Much Lesser.

Because we Had to go down the "Tobacco Product" Road. The Drug alternative was just not an Option.

Being a Tobacco Product isn't the Main Problem now. Its how the Previous FDA hammered the Square e-Cigarette Peg into the Let's Bomb New Tobacco Products into the stone age and Not Approve Anything round hole.

It's like they drew a Line in the Sand with the FSTPA and said... OK, we'll grandfather everything in. But there will be No New Tobacco Products. Because ALL Tobacco Products are Evil (except for the Tax Money we receive from them!)".

And then e-Cigarettes came Along. And kinda got Sweep Up into the Car Wash.

If the FDA would just put Public Health 1st for a change, a New Regulatory Framework could be established for e-Cigarettes. Still a Tobacco Product, but separate from Combustible Tobacco.

 

[SteveS45]

Although intriguing the Non Tobacco Nicotine and now the Synthetic Nicotine are becoming available I personally will wait and let others be the lab rats. As it is there are so many made up health risks about the vaping products we use when will this get assaulted in the Media?

 

[Vapntime]

Nothing in there suggest it would have health benefits over quality tobacco based nic as its mixed with tobacco based nic.

Watering it down doesn't equal health benefits.

It does show a "profit benefits" for vendors.

Huh! Maybe you should read the full paper or do some research and understand that synthetic nicotine contains two 'types' of nicotine (S-) which is found in tobacco and (R-) its mirror which is only found in synthetic along with (S-). (R-) is not inactive it is just less potent or toxic than (S-). Synthetic nicotine contains both forms, its not mixed with tobacco derived nicotine. The study suggests the (R-) nicotine may have even more beneficial effects health wise than the (S-).

 

[Rossum]

Huh! Maybe you should read the full paper or do some research and understand that synthetic nicotine contains two 'types' of nicotine (S-) which is found in tobacco and (R-) its mirror which is only found in synthetic along with (S-). (R-) is not inactive it is just less potent or toxic than (S-). Synthetic nicotine contains both forms, its not mixed with tobacco derived nicotine. The study suggests the (R-) nicotine may have even more beneficial effects health wise than the (S-).

Meh. The primary health benefit of vapable nicotine is that it keeps the cigarette demon at bay.

 

[Vapntime]

Meh. The primary health benefit of vapable nicotine is that it keeps the cigarette demon at bay.

Yea I agree don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with USP tobacco derived nicotine. I just have an interest (not financial) in the synthetic and there is alot of mis-information out there.

 

[Alien Traveler]

Unless synthetic nicotine is cheaper, cleaner and can survive FDA threats, I have no interest in buying it. It should deserve to be bought.

 

[Verb]

Next Generation Labs did issue a press release about their testing of HiLiq's NTN. I wonder if they verified the result with another lab first.

Testing from Next Generation Labs Finds HiLIQ’s NTN is Derived From Tobacco