Yup if you want to tax it, make it a moral issue and the authoritarian types will get behind it.
Taxation of E-Liquid in the US
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I do wish I could recall the number of new IRS employees needed to enforce provisions of Affordable Care Act, but it's huge. Complexity is not going to stop our government from doing anything, even if it contradicts itself three times on every page.
I've already prepared myself for future regulation and taxation though education. Knowing how the devices function and being handy will cover the equipment and I got my initial DIY supplies over a month ago and so far nothing I've mixed is unvapable or even unpleasant.
Besides, by the time any such tax or regulation comes down I'll have a ProVari. I've heard tell that just to gaze upon it's magnificence will fulfill all your vaping desires. So suck it Uncle Sam
You never fail to make me giggle. Thank you for that.
Pat
O and BTW: My doomsday plan is to buy a camper and live in your backyard. LOL.
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16,000 IRS employees lets give them a very modest salary of 40,000 dollars no benefits. Thats only 640,000,000 yearly in wages this is a very conservative estimate.Pretty cool hu
Juice vendors could set up offshore and ship in plain packaging, as is done now with pharmaceuticals. Customs used to try to discourage this by holding and delaying shipments from any known med suppliers, under pressure from domestic sources, but apparently they gave this up. For the past couple of years I've been getting my meds in a reasonable time frame, less than a week from an island in the South Pacific ...
There are plenty of locations around the world that would welcome the trade and profits. I have no problem sidestepping an unjust tax that targets a desireable commodity. I seem to recall that's how this country started ...
I have to believe that the sheer magnitude of screening every box and envelope is just impractical, all kinds of stuff gets through Customs every day. Why not nic juices ?
There are plenty of locations around the world that would welcome the trade and profits. I have no problem sidestepping an unjust tax that targets a desireable commodity. I seem to recall that's how this country started ...
I have to believe that the sheer magnitude of screening every box and envelope is just impractical, all kinds of stuff gets through Customs every day. Why not nic juices ?
Not a realistic option for the everyday guy. When the government sticks its hand in to vaping it will be ruined from what we enjoy today. I can not think of one industry that government intrusion has helped.
Yes food and safety and environmental regulations are needed but some place we crossed the line and have went from protecting the consumers, workers, and environment to regulatory boards that exist just to regulate with no common since.
Look, I'm still of the opinion that this whole thing - deeming, taxing... - beyond a State sales tax as assessed on any other taxable non non-taxable (political crap forces me to phrase things that way) - will go nowhere. It's simply too complicated (there I go again) for our gubbermint mindset to handle.
First you have that whole "tobacco" versus "what the hell is that?" problem. Tobacco - even something as complicated as a cigarette - well, Washington can figure it out. If it contains tobacco - tax it. When you get to something as "complicated" as roll your own stuff - if it contains tobacco (you know... tobacco), and it's a part that you stick the tobacco in that serves no other purpose - tax it.
The whole problem that keeps tripping everything up - from the FDA, regulation and taxation - is the complex (for Washington) matter of "what the hell is it?"
"It's tobacco." Well, duh - no, it isn't.
"It's nicotine." And so is all that stuff you already approve - like Nic-O-Gum & prescription inhalers. And when it's in pest control products and other stuff. So what?
"It's medicine." Perhaps, but that's a stretch. If it's really that bad then why did you let Nic-O-Gum et al slip into the realm of non-prescription OTC products?
"It's dangerous." Still waiting on those thousand of lawsuits, from people getting harmed by vaping. (Stupid doesn't count. Anyone can blow up a battery if you "Jackass" it enough.)
Then everything collapses under the heavy burden of Washington being unable to parse out the parts, so to speak. They don't know what to do with:
A battery is just a battery - except when it's in an e-cigarette. Take your 18650 battery outta your mod, stick it in your flashlight, and the tax man's head explodes.
Propylene Glycol is regulated and outrageously taxed - except when it's not in an e-cigarette. They can't level the playing field and just "tax it all" or any and every other industry that uses PG would be in a massive Lobbying hissy fit. Including and especially big pharma. Will Washington propose regulation and taxes based on intent? If you declare your purchase of VG in a CVS is for vaping will you pay more in taxes, but not if you say it's for baking? Gimme a break...
And polyfill and silica wick and electronic components and nichrome wire and on and on and... It's an e-cig "thing" - except when it isn't.
The problem Washington cannot overcome is that "e-cig" is actually more broad concept than narrowly defined execution. Put all these parts together and you end up with an e-cig. But all these individual parts make DC's head explode.
Oh... forgot about that whole "What the hell is it if there is zero nicotine in it?" problem they can't wrap their heads around too. Yet another concept versus execution brain fart for the Feds.
Gonna go vape some and not worry about our gubbermint getting something done. They are really good at accomplishing pretty much nothing these days.
GREAT POAST.
I too think that the much feared attempt at regulation and taxation is a long, long way off. Simply because of the complexity of what we're doing, AND with the Godsend that was the Soterra vs. FDA ruling. However, I also believe that sooner or later, somebody is gonna figure it out and devise a complicated taxation scheme that's three dimensional. By that, I mean a way of capturing revenue based on mg/ml, total ml and revenue/mg/ml.
2023, at the earliest.
That said, by that time I think business will have figured out a way to get around'em.
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Not necessarily. Depending on your age and your nic consumption storing enough nic liquid NOW for future DIY use is certainly not out of the realm of possibility. Weaning yourself down to zero nic is not as hard as giving up cigarettes for some people so then no nic is needed at all. Then again it might be possible to vape 0mg for the smoking replication and use nicotine gum/patches for the nic portion for those people that can't do without nic. I see many different ways for me to personally avoid the taxation that the government is salivating for with a bit of advanced preparation now. Mechanical mods and rebuildable atomizers abound now. This is the time to stock up and learn while there is still a very active, helpful community to teach you the ropes.
That said, it really deeply pisses me off that potential future vapers are going to get screwed out of knowing just how well vaping can work.
I started vaping in march. I am down to 2mg/mL juice. I DIY all my juices but ONE menthol that I vape for all of 15minutes first thing in the morning. I've been noticing lately that I haven't even been doing that every morning. I could do without it.
I bought a big bottle of 100mg nic liquid in April. At the rate I am consuming it and the rate I am dropping my nic level I should be down to zero nic before the bottle is half gone.
My concern is hardware which is why I am investing in a small stockpile of Mechs, RBAs, and RBDs and spare parts for them. I can learn to build and maintain them. I should have my stockpile finished long before October.
After that the government can't touch my vaping.
I bought a big bottle of 100mg nic liquid in April. At the rate I am consuming it and the rate I am dropping my nic level I should be down to zero nic before the bottle is half gone.
My concern is hardware which is why I am investing in a small stockpile of Mechs, RBAs, and RBDs and spare parts for them. I can learn to build and maintain them. I should have my stockpile finished long before October.
After that the government can't touch my vaping.
Is this taxation fueled by the government or by tobacco companies trying to keep people smoking instead of vaping? The tobacco companies probably have a lot of money and influence to keep this issue a complicated mess. Their money and influence is probably another reason for the lack of information on the safety and health benefits of e cigs vs. analog cigarettes. I think tobacco companies see vaping for what it is, the end of people being addicted to their products.
I'm sure it's both....but..
Say the tobacco companies weren't involve in getting it banned or taxed and eventually almost everyone stopped smoking and started vaping..what will happen?
I'll tell you what will happen...
The politicians will never stand for the lost tax revenue that cigarettes bring in to their states, which is huge .They will tax E-cigs faster than you can say "Vape".
Our Mayor here in NYC (Bloomberg) has the police going after anyone bringing in cigarettes from other states and sending them to jail with huge finds and having them pay the lost tax $. Cigarettes here cost anywhere from $12 to $15 $ a pack depending upon where you buy them.
Plus Bloomberg is thinking or going to raise the taxes where they will cost $20 a pack..I'm not kidding.
Politicians will not let this huge amount of tax revenue on cigs to be lost..period. They will have to find a way to replace this revenue regardless if tobacco companies are behind it or not.
Politicians (majority) do not care about your health..if they did they wouldn't exempt themselves from the new healthcare law, (that's falling apart by the way.)
Yep ..the new healthcare law isn't good enough for them ,but it's good enough for you and your family, but they tax cigs because they care about your health..yeah right.
Say the tobacco companies weren't involve in getting it banned or taxed and eventually almost everyone stopped smoking and started vaping..what will happen?
I'll tell you what will happen...
The politicians will never stand for the lost tax revenue that cigarettes bring in to their states, which is huge .They will tax E-cigs faster than you can say "Vape".
Our Mayor here in NYC (Bloomberg) has the police going after anyone bringing in cigarettes from other states and sending them to jail with huge finds and having them pay the lost tax $. Cigarettes here cost anywhere from $12 to $15 $ a pack depending upon where you buy them.
Plus Bloomberg is thinking or going to raise the taxes where they will cost $20 a pack..I'm not kidding.
Politicians will not let this huge amount of tax revenue on cigs to be lost..period. They will have to find a way to replace this revenue regardless if tobacco companies are behind it or not.
Politicians (majority) do not care about your health..if they did they wouldn't exempt themselves from the new healthcare law, (that's falling apart by the way.)
Yep ..the new healthcare law isn't good enough for them ,but it's good enough for you and your family, but they tax cigs because they care about your health..yeah right.
You folks who think the government (the states especially) won't tax this because it's a complex issue are living in a land I want to live in. You don't know how close we are. I (un)fortunately work in this realm. We are not far away if we don't fight hard.
I suppose we can tell CASAA to wrap it up and go home. Folks round here say it'll never happen. The government will never tax something they don't understand. Never happen, especially with BT lobbyists pushing. No way.
I'll take a some of what y'all are vaping.
I suppose we can tell CASAA to wrap it up and go home. Folks round here say it'll never happen. The government will never tax something they don't understand. Never happen, especially with BT lobbyists pushing. No way.
I'll take a some of what y'all are vaping.
What the heck does fighting hard do in the taxation example? (Other stuff like rights, sure). Taxes.... lol. Write em all ya want.
If they lose the revenue from cigs, they will seek to replace it somehow. You can yell and scream but the majority of the population will see it as another "sin tax" and buy into it.
Just ordered a 1.5 year supply of nic base. Can build or buy everything else.
If they lose the revenue from cigs, they will seek to replace it somehow. You can yell and scream but the majority of the population will see it as another "sin tax" and buy into it.
Just ordered a 1.5 year supply of nic base. Can build or buy everything else.
LOL You don't need a crystal ball or even an awesome crystal ball when it comes to politicians and taxes.
Oh It's coming alright...
We'll revisit this thread at a later date .
Why are you so negative, accepting defeat before it happens, creating defeat in your reality. It's not in mine
I think i would go semi diy. Id but the 0 nic juices and add the nic to them myself(and taper down my nic content more rapidly)
your crazy if you think in the legislation to tax juices they wouldn't try to curb or make nicotine juice by itself outrageously expensive. it wont matter if you buy ready- made or DIY they will find a way to tax, tax , tax. the better plan would be to make friends with someone overseas(preferably somewhere in southeast asia)
Change will come that is beyond doubt. What form the change will take I don't think anyone can predict with any surety. For me personally I will prepare for the worst, Hope for the best, and deal with whatever we end up with.
You know all this negativity brings to mind a poem that sat in my HS football team room it kinda went like this.
First line was, if you think you're beaten you already are.
Last line read, life's battles doesn't always go to the stronger or faster man, but life's sometimes go to the man who thinks he can.
So I beg to ask how many here sit in church every Sunday and not let a single word sink into their very fabric.
Oh and by no means do I profess any religion.
But this battle is bigger than money like all else that is going on. The old way is fading fast, the new energy has already been
ushered in.
Thoughts words eventually become things. The magic script is already hidden in the mystery of holy book.
Let there be light and it was.
When two or more are gathered in my name one energy ask or know it to be done.
The darkness cannot defeat the light.
So how about we combat this with our positive thoughts and energies.
Look at everyone here look at yourselves you we are so beat down by the system that is
we feel that hope is already lost.
So how about for the now we just for a moment accept that we are greater than this physical realm
How about just for the moment we just play with the idea that we are divine. How about just
for the now we accept that we are the creators of your reality. How about just accepting
for just now with our positive collective energy we are the collective I AM.
Lets just expect a miracle, lets just dare and no matter how you may feel about him
send emails to the president the firs lady employing them not to let the FDA take away
our freedoms concerning how we do what we do now.
Expect an injunction by some benevolent hot shot team of attorneys who will continue
to let abuse of power run rampant.
How about if they are so damn big on the economy a economic growth they will leave the moms
and pops alone. Because according to the constitution we do have the life to life liberty
and the pursuit of happiness.
If you find it hard to accept and believe in what I just typed then just fake it and know that we have already one.
Take necessary action do what you must but put words and thought of victory positive energy into the ethers regarding
this matter.....until.
I don't operate on faith I'm am going on a knowing that I wasn't put on this path for it to be snatched away.
Always expect a miracle.......
First line was, if you think you're beaten you already are.
Last line read, life's battles doesn't always go to the stronger or faster man, but life's sometimes go to the man who thinks he can.
So I beg to ask how many here sit in church every Sunday and not let a single word sink into their very fabric.
Oh and by no means do I profess any religion.
But this battle is bigger than money like all else that is going on. The old way is fading fast, the new energy has already been
ushered in.
Thoughts words eventually become things. The magic script is already hidden in the mystery of holy book.
Let there be light and it was.
When two or more are gathered in my name one energy ask or know it to be done.
The darkness cannot defeat the light.
So how about we combat this with our positive thoughts and energies.
Look at everyone here look at yourselves you we are so beat down by the system that is
we feel that hope is already lost.
So how about for the now we just for a moment accept that we are greater than this physical realm
How about just for the moment we just play with the idea that we are divine. How about just
for the now we accept that we are the creators of your reality. How about just accepting
for just now with our positive collective energy we are the collective I AM.
Lets just expect a miracle, lets just dare and no matter how you may feel about him
send emails to the president the firs lady employing them not to let the FDA take away
our freedoms concerning how we do what we do now.
Expect an injunction by some benevolent hot shot team of attorneys who will continue
to let abuse of power run rampant.
How about if they are so damn big on the economy a economic growth they will leave the moms
and pops alone. Because according to the constitution we do have the life to life liberty
and the pursuit of happiness.
If you find it hard to accept and believe in what I just typed then just fake it and know that we have already one.
Take necessary action do what you must but put words and thought of victory positive energy into the ethers regarding
this matter.....until.
I don't operate on faith I'm am going on a knowing that I wasn't put on this path for it to be snatched away.
Always expect a miracle.......
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