TCR for Zivipf NiFe52

[yo han]

I've been searching and reading a lot but can't find the TCR for Zivipf NiFe52.
As I understand it, Zivipf has NiFe48 which is actually NiFe52 (52% Nickel) so what about their NiFe52? How much Nickel does that contain? And what's the correct TCR?

 

[yo han]

Got a reply from Zivipf themselves.
Very short, no explanation, just numbers...

NiFe52
resistance at 20°C: 10.2 Ohm/m ..... 3.1 ohm/ft
wire diameter: 0.25mm / 0.010" / AWG 30
alloying elements: Ni 48%, Fe remains
TCR = 310

Quite odd; their NiFe48 contains 52% Ni (so is actually NiFe52) while their NiFe52 wire contains 48% Ni (should be called NiFe48 instead, it also has the NiFe48 TCR of 0.00310)
On the other hand, their 30awg NiFe48 has a resistance of 7.5 Ohm/m while their 30awg NiFe52 has a resistance of 10.2 Ohm/m

 

[Chris863]

Yo hon, what is the shipping like to the US from zivipf?

I’ve been wanting to buy some nife52 in thicker gauges. I have a little bit left of 23G and 25G Nife52 from crazywire a different supplier. They are located in England. Is zivipf European as well?

 

[TrollDragon]

Zivipf was only $8 shipping to Canada on my last order, YMMV.

I run the NiFe48 or 52 in Replay mode on the DNAs and don't bother with the actual TCR.

 

[yo han]

Is zivipf European as well?

Zivipf is a German company. Just put some stuff in your cart and go to checkout to see shipping costs.

 

[Pierrotlunaire]

Got a reply from Zivipf themselves.
Very short, no explanation, just numbers...

NiFe52
resistance at 20°C: 10.2 Ohm/m ..... 3.1 ohm/ft
wire diameter: 0.25mm / 0.010" / AWG 30
alloying elements: Ni 48%, Fe remains
TCR = 310

Quite odd; their NiFe48 contains 52% Ni (so is actually NiFe52) while their NiFe52 wire contains 48% Ni (should be called NiFe48 instead, it also has the NiFe48 TCR of 0.00310)
On the other hand, their 30awg NiFe48 has a resistance of 7.5 Ohm/m while their 30awg NiFe52 has a resistance of 10.2 Ohm/m

I think the number 52 in the name of the wire "NiFe52" from Zivipf doesn't refer to the Ni, but to the Fe percentage.

It is the same with the Resistherm NiFe30 wire from Dicodes, where "30" means the percentage of Fe dicodes resistance wire NiFe30 - dicodes-mods.com

Still, it is true that in the Nifethal 52 alloy from Kanthal, "52" refers to the Ni percentage Nifethal® 52 — Kanthal®

These different producers have confusingly different ways of naming their alloys.

Regarding the TCR, I'm surprised that they give a value of 310. Should be rather 404 in my opinion.

Regarding the resistance, I think it's quite normal that a different alloy has a different resistance.

 

[yo han]

Regarding the TCR, I'm surprised that they give a value of 310. Should be rather 404in my opinion.

Well that's exactly what confuses me.
They give a TCR of 400 for their NiFe48 and 310 for NiFe52.
If they're calling it NiFe 48 and 52 referring to the Fe percentage in the wire, then that would make perferct sense.
However, their NiFe48 has a lower resistance than their NiFe52 which, if they indeed had swapped the naming of the wire, doesn't make sense.
Seems to me like litterally everything is mixed up here.
I've emailed them for an explanation but unfortunately, no reply (over a week later).

 

[Pierrotlunaire]

In between, I have made some research.

I thought the TCR of the NiFe52 of Zivipf was 404. That’s what I had noted. But I couldn’t find the source of this information I had. So I guess I was confusing things.

I think all the other informations are matching :

The NiFe48 of Zivipf contains 48% of Fe. The Kanthal company produces it with the name Nifethal52 which means 52% of Ni. CrazyWire is producing this alloy too, under the name of NiFe52.
The resistance given by the Kanthal company, SteamEngine, Zivipf and CrazyWire are the same.
Both the Kanthal company and SteamEngine say the TCR is 404. Zivipf says 400. CrazyWire 340

The NiFe52 of Zivipf contains 52% of Fe. The only other company that I know that produces it, is CrazyWire, under the name NiFe48 (48% of Ni).
Both Zivipf and CrazyWire are giving the same resistance to that alloy and both say the TCR is 310.
This alloy doesn't appear in SteamEngine.

Link to the Nifethal52 of Kanthal : Nifethal® 52 — Kanthal®

Link to the NiFe wires of CrazyWire : NiFe

 

[yo han]

Thanks for your research Pierrotlunaire
OK so if I want the highest possible resistance NiFe wire I need 48% Ni alloy which has a TCR of 310?

 

[Pierrotlunaire]

Thanks also to you. I could update some useful information.

Yes, the 48% Ni alloy has the highest resistance.

But why would you prefer to have a coil with a higher resistance ? If you are vaping in TC or wattage mode, the resistance of the coil doesn't make any difference (unless it would be to low to be accepted by your mod, which is unlikely to happen, nowadays).

The 48% Ni alloy which has a TCR of 310, will be a littlebit less precise in TC than the 48% Fe alloy which has a TCR of 400. But actually, sometimes, less precision can also be a good thing.

 

[yo han]

Well, I'm using SS at the moment so any NiFe wire will have a much higher TCR which will improve TC.
I'm an MTL smoker using a Dvarw and prefer a coil of around 0.4 Omhs. With SS I can use AWG28 wire but since NiFe has considerably lower resistance I already need to go for AWG30 to get the same resistance. I really don't want to have to make longer coils so the higher the resistance the better. Hence I'm going to give Ni 48% a try.

 

[Pierrotlunaire]

NiFe should definitely improve the TC in comparison with SS.

I understand what you are saying, but really, there is no need for you to look at a determined resistance in TC or wattage mode. An AWG28 wire with same coil diameter and same number of wraps will vape exactly the same if it is made of SS or NiFe, even if the resistance will be lower with NiFe. Purposely, the mod measures the resistance of the coil and adjusts the electrical current in order to reach the desired power or temperature. Give a try and you'll see.

It is only with a mechanical vaping that a low resistance means high power.

So, if you want the more precise TC, you should go for the 48% Fe alloy. AWG28 would be really thin and maybe lack of robustness. But AWG29 would be ok and would cool better than AWG30

 

[yo han]

Thanks again for your input.
But you're saying AWG28 would be too thin and AWG29 OK?
AWG28 is thicker than AWG29

 

[Pierrotlunaire]

Sorry, I did a mistake. I'm thinking in mm usually, not in AWG.
I wanted to say that AWG30 could be too thin.
Edit : and that AWG29 would cool better than AWG28.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Agree with @Pierrotlunaire

The resistance of your coil is irrelevant assuming it falls within your devices range. That said, the benefits of NiFe52 vs SS316L is that its rise in resistance is much greater, allowing your device to work with broader range

I do not know the geometries of your 0.4 ohm coil. Using Steam Engine, 28 awg SS316L around a 2mm ID with 5 wraps nets 0.4 ohms. Duplicating this geometry with NiFe52 nets 0.2 ohms – well within the range of almost all modern devices.

But if we set a goal temperature of 230°C, and working at a room temperature of 25°C, the SS coil would have to rise in resistance by 0.072 ohms vs 0.165 ohms for the NiFe52. So you can see your device has a much broader range to work with by using the NiFe52. This should (I say should cause I do not know the deficiencies of your device), allow for a more accurate Temp Control. Whether you notice it or not I can not say.

 

[yo han]

Using a Pico 75W and 2.5mm coils.
It does TC between 0.1 an 1.5 Ohms so yes, I guess I should be comfortable with lower resistance values and go for 52% Ni and the better TCR value.
My Zifipv NiFe52 (48% Ni) hasn't even arrived yet but my finger's already hovering above the Order button to get some Zivipf NiFe48 (AWG29 wire with 400 (or 404) TCR). I really like AWG28 vs AWG30 because 30 deforms so easily when pulling the cotton through, never tried AWG29 but it could be a nice compromise between 28 and 30.
Heck, I'm just ordering both. Saved so much on cigs over the past decade, a few extra Euros won't break the bank