TFA Flavor Strength, VETERANS PLEASE HELP!

[hacklerjason]

So i have gotten a really impressive collection of flavors from wizard, who i might add it an AWESOME supplier! im having a bit of issues with getting flavor strengthing down... i have a toddler so i dont have much time to go "digging through the archives" for this knowledge although i know it IS here somewhere... i know it is common etiquette to search through the forum to find the info before posting a new thread and i am pleading for forgiveness in not looking through the entire forum for this prior to opening a thread. i have found the stickied guide to diy flavor but the flavors i have arent in that list... is there a "master" list somewhere? if so, could one of you seasoned pros help me in the direction i need to be in? heres a list of what ive got, all TFA
Blueberry Extra
Champagne PG
Marlboro (M-Type)
Red Bullish
Sweet Tarts
tobacco Absolute Blend PG
Watermelon
Absinthe
Apple
Caramel Candy
Cola
Grape juice
Hawaiian Tropical Punch
Kiwi Double
Lemon Lime
Mountain Dew
Strawberry

i have made about 300ml total finished product worth of unsuccessful mixes... perhaps it being in my theory of operation... is there a common starting point? for example, how to determine flavor strength, then on to assessing need for additional sweetening, then processing final mixdown in proportions of pg:vg... is there an order to go through as is troubleshooting flow? and how is steep time decided, on flavor? pg:vg? nic?
Please advise

 

[Lyndagayle]

You have posed one of the questions that there's no cut and dried answer to. Everyone's tastes are different and you'll get a variety of answers. I will give you my perspective and hope that it helps. I don't like stout flavors but I do like a full flavored juice. I've tried most of the flavors you listed and my threshold is around the 15% mark with ethyl maltol added in addition to the flavor percentage. Kiwi double and blueberry extra is stronger IMO and tastes better at the 10% mark. M type tobacco, for me it is a no go at any level. It's VERY STOUT, even at 1% but some like it so you'll get some opinions on it. Tobacco absolute is good at 1-2% added to other tobacco flavors to give it an earthy tone. Mix small batches, 5 ml works well IMO and adjust until you hit your sweet spot. There will be some you just simply won't like regardless of the % of flavor used. It's all trial and error until you find your match. Good luck!

 

[Hoosier]

There has been a pretty impressive group effort on TPA/TFA flavorings http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/336110-flavor-apprentice-flavoring-thread-8.html#post7733728 goes to the last post on the thread.

None of the percentages given are exactly what I use, but the ones I use regularly do work well with the percentages the group mind has come up with. That thread is probably the best I've seen since the flavoring sticky on the same theme.

OK, now you've had 2 well established vets, mixing vets no less, give you an answer. When you try the precentages on the thread I linked, if that doesn't work, come back and we'll find out what the problem is.

 

[hacklerjason]

you guys are right on! thanks, i knew it was out there somewhere!!! will report back... last night i did uncork a 4 day steeped mt dew and i like it! but the problem is... after only a few hours of non continuous vape time its starting to get the stiff draw of a dying carto... does sucralose plug things up or is that more likely to blame on some, if any, flavor oils in the Mt Dew?

 

[my4jewels]

I have found that sucralose lessens the life of my cartos. I use only ethyl maltol to sweeten, and it seems to not have any negative effect on cartos. I have also found that malic acid, used to add sour notes, also lessens carto life, so I don't use it. TPA Mtn Dew seems unfriendly as well. I do a mix of lemon, lime, cola and a bit of EM instead, and it's very satisying. Champagne or cola is a nice additive to any fruit flavors.

Most of my TPA fruits I flavor around 20%, I like strong flavor. In my experience, they don't require steeping. I add EM to all of my fruits. Also, I have found any of the creamier flavors seem to lessen carto life for me.

 

[MattBott]

I had a mix with 10% sucralose (never using it before), and it was kind of fun to watch it crystalize on the metal wick of my ChiD when firing it. Now, that wick no longer wicks, lol.

 

[CommaHolly]

I think it depends on how strong you like your juice,,,,,,,,,I always add extra flavor when I order juices, so I started with 10%. I find that the Lorann flavors need a bit more,,,,,,about 13%, but the TFA flavors are stronger, and I only need about 10% flavoring to hit my sweet spot. I do add a few drops of sucralose, but not much, and haven't noticed a problem with my cartos. Also, a few drops of lemon juice (3 drops for 10ml) will make those fruit flavors really POP and stabilize the flavors so you don't open a bottle of juice you loved 5 days ago and discover the flavor is gone for some reason, if I don't add the lemon juice, the flavor seems to go away after several days.

 

[CommaHolly]

also, if you haven't already tried this, make small 5 ml "tester" batches,,,,,if you like them, you can always make a larger bottle,,,if you don't like them, you've only wasted 5 ml of product and can go up or down on the flavoring percentages depending on your taste.

 

[hacklerjason]

you guys are outstanding! i think i am on my way to discovering the methods, with all of your help! i need to get this right so that i can pass worthy knowledge on to fellow vapers who dont even know how to forum, let alone mix juice. i plan to just mix for them at cost... i mean cost by what i get it for based on materials and shipping, no labor, no profit... i only wish to beat out quality and consistency of the retail store we have here... when i buy their made in china stuff that they claim as their own, we get constant changes that they are "unaware of"... its upsetting... so i take my cost of 1 flavor(the one they want) and calculate that flavor at their desire pg:vg and figure out my potential yield at that exact mix... then i figure the cost per ml of that single flavor... then i x by how many ml they want and there it is...

 

[butterfly2746]

How much sweetner u add say like th watermelon in a 5 ml at 15%

 

[CommaHolly]

I add a little less than 1 drop per ml,,,,,,for 5 ml, I'd probably add 3-4 drops of sweetner.

Jason, here's a calculator that can figure out how much your juice cost you per ml based on what you spent for all the ingredients

E-Liquid Recipe Name

 

[hacklerjason]

haha thats awesome!!! heres what i do for sweetener... the commercial ones you can buy at too strong for mixing in small sampler batches... so i make my own... i purchase pure powdered sucralose from Welcome to Pure Sucralose - 0 Calorie and pure and mix 1/8 tsp to 0.5ml HOT distilled water to dissolve while swirling bottle around, then top off with 14.5ml PG... i made it at 1/2 tsp to 2.5ml water and 12.5ml PG but it was toooooooo strong! one drop killed juice! it wouldve been ok to make with one drop of that one to say, a 30ml batch... but i dont have many perfect recipes so i still make 5ml batches... that one drop was wayyy overkill... so i made the newest one at 1/8th to 15 total ml fluid... 0.5ml water is only to help the sucralose dissolve better or i would use 100%PG... at that level, it is a little less than 5%... take the 1/8 tsp or .125 tsp converted to grams... 0.6309g... 1g = 1ml... 0.6309/15 = 0.04206 = 4.206% ... perfect because its been reduced enough to measure in better amounts

 

[hacklerjason]

and sorry i never answered the ? ... i got it dilute enough to use at about 2%... which would be 2 drops or 0.1ml in a 5ml batch

 

[butterfly2746]

Ok tyvm I'm fixed to try an mix a few flavors up

 

[hacklerjason]

i am very happy with this sweetener i make... its not as strong as commercially available stuff so its easier to mix... it you need to you could always reduce the commercial stuff with added pg and obtain the strength you would like... its helpful to know the mg/ml of the sweetener so you have an idea of how much your using in case you may need to switch from one brand to another... i stay away from the commercial stuff though because i dont want any of the other add ins that come with it... i just use sucralose only started as powder i use in making my own suspensions