The Actual Physics of the Atomizer

[skeens]

Hi everybody

I'm a complete newbie to ecigs, I actually just ordered my first kit!

I understand how the e-cigarettes generally work... something heats up the liquid that turns into vapor that you suck into your mouth. I would like to know the physics behind how this actually happens.

Basically, an atomizer is an example of Bernoulli's principle. Is there anyone who could explain how this principle fits in with the heat used in producing the smoke-like-vapor? I'm having issues connecting the atomizers used in perfume sprayers to those found in these.

I'm a math major in college, and it'd be interesting for me to be able to model the actual amount of vapor these things produce with respect to the battery and atomizer. So far it's been very hard for me to find anything besides "the e-cigarette uses micro-electric technology to heat the atomizer and produce vapor". I would love to write a math paper on this for one of my classes.

Thank you!

PS - I love this site. I'll make sure to get back at you all when I receive my first shipment!

 

[DocWyatt]

Not sure if he ever addressed this or not... But search ScottBee posts... he has a zillion posts about batteries, voltage, ohms, etc. Personally i know how to hit the button and puff.... which is all i need to know... LOL.

You will know you have found the right guy when the House guy is eerily staring at you...

i read their "great debate" about the actual voltage of batteries, etc. Above my level of understanding or need to know - but it was interesting...

 

[DocWyatt]

Found that debate for you...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/joye-510/65055-battery-voltages-surprise.html

Edit; On another note there was some discussion of whether people can "hear" the House guy while they read his posts...lol. I must admit... I tend to as well... ha ha. It is very strange...

 

[banjo]

Nice first post, and welcome to ECF. But, why are you asking us english majors questions that we can't possibly answer...........

 

[Hoosier]

The atty contains a coil that heats up when power is applied.

Since the warmth of the vapor is a direct function of the power applied, that is why folks work the loaded voltages and the coil resistance looking for the "sweet spot".

In the simplest terms, the coil boils very small quantities of the juice and we are inhaling the evaporation that results from that boiling.

 

[Java_Az]

Why they are called atomizers i really don't know. Technically speaking they are truly vaporizers. But i guess vaporizer doesn't sound as good as atomizer. So if you look into how vaporizers function instead of atomizers it might be more helpful to you.

 

[Willriker]

Look into heating elements, heating coils, and resistance.

Also, an understanding of thermodynamics is needed to know how much energy is required to have a VG/PG solution change states from a fluid to a vapor in atmosheric pressure is needed if you truely want to know how one of these works.

Truth be told, i have been giving some serious thought to reverse engineering some of the more popular models to see what exactly makes them are popular. Then developing my own model from what i have discovered... but im waiting on the results of this FDA appeal before i even begin to that givethat any serious thought.

 

[DocWyatt]

Look into heating elements, heating coils, and resistance.

Also, an understanding of thermodynamics is needed to know how much energy is required to have a VG/PG solution change states from a fluid to a vapor in atmosheric pressure is needed if you truely want to know how one of these works.

Truth be told, i have been giving some serious thought to reverse engineering some of the more popular models to see what exactly makes them are popular. Then developing my own model from what i have discovered... but im waiting on the results of this FDA appeal before i even begin to that givethat any serious thought.

Will, i think with the assistance of Mr. Data you should be able to make the best PV in history.... just sayin...

 

[nicotime]

It doesnt really have much to do with Bernoulli's principle as far as pressure differential sucking up juice...its more the capillary action of the wick. The coil heats due to the resistance of the wire and vaporizes the juice in the immediate area of the saturated wick.

Not quite sure exactly what you are looking for.

 

[Lyndagayle]

Okay Skeens, the atomizer is a little round thingy with a red wire and a black wire and when the button on a battery is pushed, it causes those two wires to start dukin' it out, which heats up a coil thingy majiggy. You have to have about 3 drops of liquid down in the atomizer which has a wick stickin' out of it, kinda like a candle and a little dumawhatchit across the wick called a bridge. The bridge is some kind of material that gets kinda wet and helps transfer new liquid down there in the hot spot to keep the atomizer from getting dry and yukky tasting. Maybe it's called an atomizer because of the instantaneous combustion that takes place. All I know is....it all works together with some sort of scientific formula and the result makes me smile.

 

[schaedj]

Vaporizer is definitely a better term. The heating element raises the temperature of the e-liquid to above it's boiling point, so it state changes to vapor, which slightly cools and condenses into the "smoke" you breathe. The Bernoulli principle is not a factor here, except in a few mods like the GG Afs, which uses Bernoulli suction to draw more liquid into the atty wick. The key factor of the air flow is making the vapor draw up the mouthpiece and into your mouth. The ideal flow rate is one which allows The most vapor to be drawn away from the element without overcooling it, so that you suck liquid into your mouth. It also needs to be restricted enough to allow the liquid to replenish by either pumping or wicking, or you get a burnt taste as your wick / filler cooks. Units like the ego use the cone shape to retain more heat, thus allowing a higher rate of vapor production, assuming you can keep the liquid flowing. Higher voltage mods allow a quicker, higher temperature rise which allows more vapor production, again, assuming you can keep it wet. Low resistance atties draw a higher current at a lower voltage, thus producing more heat. Each fo the methodologies has tradeoffs.

Hope at lest some of this was interesting / helpful.

 

[tybin]

lol. maybe we should save the term vaporizer or come up with a code word for if/when atty's get banned

 

[DeepOrange]

A calculation rigorous enough to yield meaningful results on vapor production is going to be very challenging.

The thermodynamic stuff -- temperature rise and phase change of the liquid -- is the easier side of things. You'll need to characterize the exact composition of your liquid to determine the heat capacity/specific heat. I'd just call the atomizer a "heater". You'll need to figure out how much power it is producing. This could be done empirically, or perhaps the efficiency of such a heater design is well established. Then you could calculate based on current draw and battery voltage.

Coupling these results with fluid dynamic considerations is far more involved. You'll need to take into account the geometry of the chambers through which the vapor moves, the negative pressure of your draw, vapor density and viscosity, etc. I immediately notice the small hole through which the vapor enters your mouth. This kind of "nozzling" immediately signals convective acceleration and thus nonlinear partial differential equations (Navier-Stokes as the case may be). That's right about where being a physics major stopped being fun, for me at least.

 

[banjo]

Okay Skeens, the atomizer is a little round thingy with a red wire and a black wire and when the button on a battery is pushed, it causes those two wires to start dukin' it out, which heats up a coil thingy majiggy. You have to have about 3 drops of liquid down in the atomizer which has a wick stickin' out of it, kinda like a candle and a little dumawhatchit across the wick called a bridge. The bridge is some kind of material that gets kinda wet and helps transfer new liquid down there in the hot spot to keep the atomizer from getting dry and yukky tasting. Maybe it's called an atomizer because of the instantaneous combustion that takes place. All I know is....it all works together with some sort of scientific formula and the result makes me smile.

The best and most concise explanation of atomizer mechanics that I've read. Thank You Lyndagayle!

 

[classwife]

Holysmokes/vapes. I am impressed.....soooo many considerations. OP would have to single out one style and one juice....temp. controlled area too ???

And I THINK a perfume atomizer is just a fancy name for a mister...

and Lyndagayle is right !!!

 

[Lyndagayle]

I just couldn't resist. And yes, I can fix just about anything with a roll of duck tape and a hammer.

 

[RedForeman]

Bernoulli's principle isn't really a factor. The model would be more like an oil lamp. The wick carries the fluid to the burner, which vaporizes the fluid. As the fluid goes away into smoke-like vapor, more wicks in to take it's place.

You'd have to take the bridge out of an atty and use an i/r heat gun to estimate the temperature when it's lit. Then figure out the heat transfer, volumes, and all that gobbledygook.

I'll save you the trouble. The answer is 42.

 

[fermthe]

Allow to say that they work more like the smoke machines you find in clubs and that it seems to have a lot of bernulli's principle involved

 

[DocWyatt]

Hmm, any bernouli principle is a bit above my mathematical understanding. As a finance major the only principle I can recall that sounds similar is the Bertinelli principle (Valerie)..as in..she was rather hot back then. .

 

[bernie510]

good info, thanks