The cost of good batteries

[Ryedan]

People sometimes talk about how expensive our batteries are.

I'm generally pretty cheap and I'm not by any means rich, but batteries and chargers for vaping are items I don't skimp on. I buy batteries from suppliers I know will not sell me fakes or counterfeits and I buy only name brand IMR or hybrid batteries. RTDvapor, Illumination Supply and Orbtronic are just a few of the known good suppliers out there that come to mind. This way I'm reasonably sure my batteries will not explode if they are subjected to a short one day and that can happen in any mod, no matter how good it is or what type of mod it is. These suppliers rarely have particularly 'good deals' (sales) on their batteries.

So, just how expensive are good batteries? In the 18650 size, $10.50 plus shipping will buy you a Sony VTC5 from Illumination Supply. Cost at RTDvapor is a few cents less and Orbtronic is a couple of bucks more. AW 1600 mAh are $9.87 and 2000 mAh are $11.27 at RTDvapor.

So let's say with shipping one of these good batteries costs $13. How much does that cost per day/week/month?

At 250 total charge/discharge cycles per battery and one charge per day, this battery will cost me $0.05 a day, $0.36 a week and $1.56 a month. If I found a cheap battery that cost $5.00 shipped, I would save $0.96 a month (about three cents a day).

So battery cost plays a pretty minor role in the overall cost of vaping, no matter how expensive the batteries we buy today are. Commercial juice is way more expensive. DIY juice can save a lot of money, but it still generally costs more than good batteries do. Then there's the cost of mods and atty's to consider.

On the other hand one bad battery that explodes when it's mistreated can ruin your whole day.

Vape safe

 

[GMayberry]

This is awesome! Thank you for pointing out exact numbers. Some people simply don't get it.

 

[WattWick]

Good write-up.

Another aspect of cheap batteries is their actual usefulness for vaping. One of my first purchases in more "advanced" vaping was red Efest IMR 18350 v2 batteries. I could get two for the price of one AW 18350. Thing is... they're cheap batteries. Both in price and function. First few cycles was semi-OK at best. After maybe 15-20 cycles through each of them, they delivered a very unsatisfying, very short-lived vape. They gave a less-than-adequate vape for maybe half an hour before being below the point of decent vapor.

On the other hand, my AW IMR 18350s, which I picked up a month or so later (over a year ago) are still going strong. Still in daily rotation. And that's 18350s which probably go through a whole lot more charge cycles than your average 18650.

The Efests was a waste of money. The AWs have cost me ~$35 for over a years worth of satisfying vapes.

 

[CreepyLady]

Seriously - Thank you!

 

[Baditude]

Another aspect of cheap batteries is their actual usefulness for vaping. One of my first purchases in more "advanced" vaping was red Efest IMR 18350 v2 batteries. I could get two for the price of one AW 18350. Thing is... they're cheap batteries. Both in price and function. First few cycles was semi-OK at best. After maybe 15-20 cycles through each of them, they delivered a very unsatisfying, very short-lived vape. They gave a less-than-adequate vape for maybe half an hour before being below the point of decent vapor.

On the other hand, my AW IMR 18350s, which I picked up a month or so later (over a year ago) are still going strong. Still in daily rotation. And that's 18350s which probably go through a whole lot more charge cycles than your average 18650.

The Efests was a waste of money. The AWs have cost me ~$35 for over a years worth of satisfying vapes.

I've had the same experience with Efest vs AW. I try not to badmouth Efest as a brand too much here on ECF because apparently they have their fanbase. But when I discovered via research that the company often over-rates their battery specs and then misrepresents the pulse rating (35 amps) as the continuous amp rating (actually only 20 amps) of their purple 2600mah battery, that was going a little too far. IMO, Efest is no different than Trustfires, Ultrafires, and Surefire batteries. Just my .

I had two Efests which only lasted 2 - 3 weeks. My daughter's Efests did the same thing. Maybe Efests are just inconsistant from one battery to another and we each got a bad batch (purchased from RTD). However, I've got a couple of AW's that are just over two years old and just now starting to show the effects of their age. All of my other AW's have been working like soldiers. So, a couple of bucks more for AW's is worth it for me. Aside from Sony VTC batteries, AW IMR's are the only batteries that I buy/use for my personal use.

 

[oplholik]

Good post Ryedan, thanks for breaking it down.

 

[WattWick]

I've had the same experience with Efest vs AW. I try not to badmouth Efest as a brand too much here on ECF because apparently they have their fanbase. But when I discovered via research that the company often over-rates their battery specs and then misrepresents the pulse rating (35 amps) as the continuous amp rating (actually only 20 amps) of their purple 2600mah battery, that was going a little too far. IMO, Efest is no better than Trustfires, Ultrafires, and Surefire batteries. Just my .

I had two Efests which only lasted 2 - 3 weeks. My daughter's Efests did the same thing. Maybe Efests are just inconsistant from one battery to another and we each got a bad batch (purchased from RTD). However, I've got a couple of AW's that are just over two years old and just now starting to show the effects of their age. All of my other AW's have been working like soldiers. So, a couple of bucks more for AW's is worth it for me. Aside from Sony VTC batteries, AW IMR's are the only batteries that I buy/use for my personal use.

I did actually give Efest another chance with the purple 18350s. I dare say they work as well (for me) as the AWs. However, I can't give any accurate comparison, tho. I'm only going by "feel" while comparing batteries with 2-300++ cycles to new ones. Extremely unscientific. But... they work for me. The red ones didn't. Only time will show if they manage to do so as long as the AWs.

I am under no illusion the purples actually have a 10.5 amp sustained discharge, tho. That would give them a higher C-rating than the VTC5's.... which I find unlikely.

 

[DreamWithin]

Excellent post, Ryedan

I have a couple of AW 1600mAh that are getting tired and ready to retire. No idea exactly how many charge cycles they've had on them, but I've had them in rotation with other batts for almost 3 years (at a usage rate of probably 1.5 18650s per day on average over that time) so I've definitely gotten my money's worth and then some. Breaking down the cost like you did just further emphasizes how pointless (in the long run) saving a couple bucks on a battery really is

 

[beckdg]

best. thread. EVAR!

this needs some exposure. lots of it.

 

[pnyc]

Looks like good batteries are not expensive after all

Thanks Ryedan for the breakdown.

 

[Warpigs]

I pay around $19.00 for my AW batteries and they are worth every cent. AW 18650 Protected 3100 mAh Rechargeable Lithium Battery - AltSmoke

 

[Rickajho]

I really don't get the chasing "Where can I get the cheapest possible price..." thing when it comes to batteries. Why does the perspective get lost when it comes to batteries versus the costs of smoking?

I just looked up the price of a classic - an AW 18650 1600 mAh on RTD Vapor. It's going for $9.87 - which is less than it costs to buy a single pack of butts in my part of the world. We all know how long a pack of cigarettes lasts, so why all the ball breaking trying to shave $1.50 off the price of a battery and end up with an eBay Special in the process?

 

[Ryedan]

I really don't get the chasing "Where can I get the cheapest possible price..." thing when it comes to batteries.

Rick, reading exactly that yet again is what made me finally run the numbers and post about it. It never did make any sense to me either.

 

[anumber1]

Rick, reading exactly that yet again is what made me finally run the numbers and post about it. It never did make any sense to me either.

I spent approx $100 at the begining of this year when I made the move to mechs and higher powered regulated devices buying "aw" batteries from that auction site to equip my new gear.

Yeah, well. Nice.

All were fake. SO my cheapness cost me $100.

Yep. I don't shop for price anymore. I shop for real.

 

[thewomenfolk]

Some of us are just naturally cheap. So now tell me, where can I find the best 18500 battery?

Also, at what points do we test out batteries on a mechanical using a volt-meter and what should the results show with a good (or bad) battery?

 

[Rickajho]

Some of us are just naturally cheap. So now tell me, where can I find the best 18500 battery?

You is frugal - that just sounds better.

Take a look at bad's list of good batteries: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-9-battery-basics-mods-imr-protected-icr.html

I would vote for the AW 18490. (I knows where you is stickin' em. 18490 would be fine.) The eFest purple would be a good candidate too - but they haven't been out long enough to know if they have a longevity problem that some eFest's do.

RTD Vapor carries both. SunVapers is also a real deal AW supplier.

 

[Rickajho]

Also, at what points do we test out batteries on a mechanical using a volt-meter and what should the results show with a good (or bad) battery?

Slipped that ETA in there when I wasn't lookin'... lol

It's not so much that you can tell if a battery is 'good or 'bad' but a DVM let's you know if you are treating your batteries nicely, and if they are aging out as well.

Oh those dumb mechanicals! Ok, we love 'em but it's a totally dumb experience. In most cases you will quit using your Reo (I know you... lol) when you hit a voltage drop that just isn't giving you the performance you want. For most people that's enough of a 'warning' to keep your battery in a safe voltage range.

But if you really want to know what you are doing check the voltage at that point before you charge them. For most IMR and hybrid chemistry batteries you can drain them as low as 2.5 volts before you start damaging the battery. Put them on your meter to see if you are quitting on a battery when it's still above 2.5 volts.

Oh those dumb chargers! Trust is a good thing - but not when it comes to chargers. In a perfect world every charger would be in spec and never malfunction - but they do. Whether you have a charger with a digital display or not, the only way to make sure your charger isn't behaving badly is to pull the batteries right at the end of the charge cycle and test them with your DVM. Whaddya get? The battery voltage should be 4.2 volts or a bit lower than that. A charger that is overcharging reduces the life of your batteries.

Why do it right away once the charge cycle is done? That's the best way to know what is going on with your charger - what the voltage of the battery is right at the end of the charge cycle. If the charger is designed properly it stops providing any significant current to the battery once it completes charging. Which brings us to thing number three you can do with your meter:

Just because you charge lithium batteries to 4.2 volts that doesn't necessarily mean the batteries will hold 4.2 volts at rest. If they do great! But as batteries age out you will see more and more voltage drop after the batteries are pulled off the charger. The 'older' they are the further that voltage drop will be at rest, and the faster it will happen. Check your battery a couple hours after it has come off the charger - what does it meter now? My older eFest batteries drop to 3.95 volts within an hour after charging - and that correlates at this point to a significantly shorter run time when I use them.

 

[thewomenfolk]

You is frugal - that just sounds better.

Take a look at bad's list of good batteries: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-9-battery-basics-mods-imr-protected-icr.html

I would vote for the AW 18490. (I knows where you is stickin' em. 18490 would be fine.) The eFest purple would be a good candidate too - but they haven't been out long enough to know if they have a longevity problem that some eFest's do.

RTD Vapor carries both. SunVapers is also a real deal AW supplier.

Thanks for your good advice. I've gotten the impression that folks like the 18490's better than the 18500's. Is that true or am I just seeing things?

 

[Rickajho]

Thanks for your good advice. I've gotten the impression that folks like the 18490's better than the 18500's. Is that true or am I just seeing things?

Seeing things? It still comes down to the individual battery itself and how it's testing out by those places and people who have the equipment to do proper testing. I don't really understand why somebody out there decided there had to be a 490 and a 500 length - but they did. At least a Reo Mini is very forgiving and either size will fit fine. (Pretty sure that applies to a Provari too.) But that wouldn't be true of all PV's and some just won't fit anything longer than an 18490.

 

[DreamWithin]

I don't really understand why somebody out there decided there had to be a 490 and a 500 length - but they did

I think this had to do with the fact that the IMR version was noticeably shorter than the ICR version, hence the different designation to further distinguish it from its predecessor. I think AW might be the only one that uses the 490 designation anyway, all the other brands I've seen have continued to use 18500 instead (which are all so widely varying in actual length that it kinda makes any different nomenclature between them a moot point)