The Meaning of "Boutique" juice and what you all are missing.

[Alien Traveler]

Ok, look, I'm a chef. I can taste 10 different canned chicken soups and give you descriptions that will actually mean something to you. I know what msg tastes like, I know what hydrolyzed yeast extract tastes like, I know what all the major wholesale food purveyors chicken soup base tastes like because I've used them all. I can tell you if it tastes natural, extremely artificial, salty, umami, vegetal, etc...

You got me here. I just have to reply.

I have tasted enough of canned chicken soups to tell with confidence they all are awful, that even poorly prepared home made chicken soup will beat any of them with hands down. You failed to mention this simple fact. Or do you like these canned soups? How than can I follow your advice on e-liquid if we have such a different tastes? I am almost sure now that I will dislike Pluid.

P.S. Do you really use canned chicken soup in your cooking?

 

[Thundernoggin]

I do get the point you are making and would also agree that Pluid may be a terrible example. No matter how skilled the mixer is once you start loading up juices with unnecessary ingredients like food coloring to make them look cool it becomes indistinguishable from all the other high dollar Facebook hype juices.

 

[rebgold]

Well, I know that Murdock is particularly concerned with the quality of his product because I have asked him about it. I know that his product is still around and the majority of vapers at least know of it if they haven't tried it.
The same is true Ahlusion juices, you can ask the owner questions and get information on their product and the lengths they go to for quality control.
These are very different examples, they are making very different kinds of juices, and if you want to start talking tobaccos you would want to get some of the big players in on that discussion as well, HHV, Goodejuice? I'm not a tobacco vaper myself.

 

[DeathBYzombieZ]

You must really like Murdocks stuff. I've seen you talk about it a lot before.

 

[rebgold]

You got me here. I just have to reply.

I have tasted enough of canned chicken soups to tell with confidence they all are awful, that even poorly prepared home made chicken soup will beat any of them with hands down. You failed to mention this simple fact. Or do you like these canned soups? How than can I follow your advice on e-liquid if we have such a different tastes? I am almost sure now that I will dislike Pluid.

P.S. Do you really use canned chicken soup in your cooking?

Hahahaha, ok, my point was, there are specific things used, sometimes not used, in most eliquids. If you identify the taste of them specifically you can start to have the palate to be aware of their specific presence in eliquids, start to get an idea of what good ones use and what they don't use.
Taste the difference between the flavorings from vendors who are in no way trying to get a natural taste, like Lorann, and those that are.

I do not use canned soup, of course, I do not use any premade foods, just ask my kid who is always mad that we don't have "boxtops" to take to school.

 

[eyerhere]

Whole lotta jibbidy jab about somthing as subjective as taste preferance. Like it vape it hate it dump it. All I gotta know!

 

[rebgold]

I do like Maha Ras, it is my favorite premade eliquid. It is entirely unique. And it was my love of it that led me to ask the maker some questions because as I started to DIY i tried to recreate it, and realized my nic, my sweetener use, wasn't as good. He gave me a little advice, not much, but enough to know that he puts quality at the forefront of his products because his answers were always about starting with reliable, quality ingredients. How to tell if your nic is fresh or old, etc... That funky taste and color gets stronger the older it gets btw.
I think if you asked Wlad from Ahlusion about how to tell if you're ordering quality products his answers would most likely be similar, although he makes flavorings as well so it's a bit different.
Did you know that there are several absinthe flavorings that are green to start with? He may be adding color for fun, or he may not be. We certainly eat a lot food coloring in our modern lives if we eat anything that is premade from a store, do you think a few drops of food coloring, which can in fact be natural, is that big of a deal? I've put food coloring in my own liquid before, just for fun, it takes a hundredth of a drop to color a tank full, there's more than that in a single piece of gum, glass of soda pop.

I'd like to add that what I'm talking about here is a comparison of say, a lot of these new, 12 dollars or more for 15 ml juices, and they're all just watermelon/kiwi, or lychee lemonade, or blueberry cookie. Go on ecigsupply and look under flavorings, you will see how absolutely un-unique these liquids are.
Amaretti cookie is a flavoring, custard is a flavoring, cream is a flavoring, butter, lemon cake, they're not making these up guys, they're just adding straight up flavoring into bases with or without sweetener then selling it to you and most of the time they're must mixing two flavors together.
Kind of like buying cupcakes at the grocery store is just paying then to do the work of using a box cake mix for you.

 

[Stosh]

I've been vaping a while, but have never tasted Pluid, or most of the examples on your list. The few I have tried were not exceptional to my tastes (yup, I DIY). For an absinthe I like my own blend, don't need any others.

I have tasted my PG, VG and nic by themselves and found them pleasing. Tried a number of flavorings that sounded intriguing, many were a terrible fail. My DIY has a very limited number of acceptable flavors, and no sweetener (don't like sweet of fruity vape) and use them in combinations to my preference.

If you use quality ingredients DIY will be the best eliquid made, same way home cooking is usually much better.

 

[Mogar]

I will agree with you in part and disagree in the same thread.
*MOST PEOPLE* you can line up 5 flavors and ask them to pick the best one, and you will get different answers from different people, that is because everyone tastes will differ. You can also line up those same flavors in the same bottle and very (very) few can tell you the difference between the high end and the knockoffs. That is just the way it is, just the same with food, you can have 4 different cans of chicken soup and one home made and 80% of the people can not tell you which is the home made.
You can also take the knockoff and put it into a glass bottle and set it next to the high end in a plastic bottle and they will choose the glass bottle based off of the look of the bottle not the flavor of the juice. That is called human nature.
I am a bit different, I can taste sours and sweets differently (yes it was tested a few years ago by Nestle for a job that I didn't get because I cant tell the difference between different salts but that's a different story) and this makes things difficult for me on vapor. I can tell you which is a filtered Vodka vs a casked and distilled vodka etc. So yes I probably could tell you the difference in juice if I learned which is which but I am only interested in what I like.
As I have posted in other threads, hunt juice, go to juice bars and taste what they have. If you like it, vape it. Don't choose by the bottle or the color or anything other than the flavor FROM YOUR MACHINE AND BUILD. Don't use the stores system because as someone stated above, your coil/build and machine will change the flavor of the juice.

 

[nyiddle]

We certainly eat a lot food coloring in our modern lives if we eat anything that is premade from a store, do you think a few drops of food coloring, which can in fact be natural, is that big of a deal?

We eat food coloring, we don't vape food coloring (or, we do, but it's a rather recent thing.)

Nobody knows what the long-term effects of food coloring (even teeny-tiny amounts) in e-liquid are. To say otherwise is speculation. I personally avoid colored e-liquids just because I'm not willing to add another variable that I might have to worry about.

 

[DeathBYzombieZ]

Whole lotta jibbidy jab about somthing as subjective as taste preferance. Like it vape it hate it dump it. All I gotta know!

I do like Maha Ras, it is my favorite premade eliquid. It is entirely unique. And it was my love of it that led me to ask the maker some questions because as I started to DIY i tried to recreate it, and realized my nic, my sweetener use, wasn't as good. He gave me a little advice, not much, but enough to know that he puts quality at the forefront of his products because his answers were always about starting with reliable, quality ingredients. How to tell if your nic is fresh or old, etc... That funky taste and color gets stronger the older it gets btw.
I think if you asked Wlad from Ahlusion about how to tell if you're ordering quality products his answers would most likely be similar, although he makes flavorings as well so it's a bit different.
Did you know that there are several absinthe flavorings that are green to start with? He may be adding color for fun, or he may not be. We certainly eat a lot food coloring in our modern lives if we eat anything that is premade from a store, do you think a few drops of food coloring, which can in fact be natural, is that big of a deal? I've put food coloring in my own liquid before, just for fun, it takes a hundredth of a drop to color a tank full, there's more than that in a single piece of gum, glass of soda pop.

I haven't tried Murdock cause his stuff is only available in 0, 10 and 20 nice levels.

 

[KurrptSenate]

I don't feel any need to create a "standard" for testing liquid, if that's what you're saying. Everyones setup is different. not everyone likes to vape at 80w like I do.

vaping from a carto at 6-12w just doesn't interest me at this point

on the other hand, as long as someone is reviewing juice and can coherently express themself, depending on how well they describe it, it may or may not appeal to me.

I also don't have a problem with the OP liking a juice for having some specific ingredient or disliking a juice because it has another one you don't agree with. If I like a juice, I'll vape it. It really is that simple for me.

obviously pleasure derived from a certain experience will be assigned a certain value from the perspective of the viewer. many people find 5 pawns worth the $27.50. After trying Castle Long Reserve, I don't really have a problem with the increased price. unfortunately, I don't have enough disposable income to enjoy it as much as I would like.

 

[rebgold]

I would guess that you could create a very similar juice that Castle Long without too much effort. Oakwood is an eliquid flavoring. As is whisky, toasted coconut, roasted almond, vanilla, et...

And upon further reading of Five Pawns descriptions, how the heck do you shave a hazelnut?

 

[Avid]

how the heck do you shave a hazelnut?

With a mandolin and a lot of patience...?

 

[DoubleEwe]

I agree with just about everything rebgold has said in this thread.

This subject is one of my personal gripes, along with some of the Mechanical mod manufacturers, as it stands to make a 'boutique juice' along with an 'original mod' all you need is a decent name/logo and some fancy packaging along with some generated hype, the product does not matter. They all see other 'worthy' producers charging a premium price, they say "I want a piece of that" and jump on the price bandwagon regardless of the quality of their product. Twitter, Facebook, YouTube and other outlets perpetuated by 'generation .....' are to blame, in part at least.

The problem with the juice market is that the person who has the idea/funds to start the business is not necessarily equipped to produce a decent juice, I mean that unless they are 'super tasters' it is unlikely that they will produce an epic juice, but they will produce a juice suitable for their level of taste.
Sadly they succeed to a certain extent due to the majority of the population having similar level of taste, but fail when it comes to the other 25% of the population (sensitive/super tasters).

So, if you cater for the 75% and sell them a product that looks fancy and the latest YouTube sensation is saying "it tastes just like X" then they will enjoy it regardless of the rest of us knowing that it is just bottled cat's piss.

As for the reviewers, I totally agree that their descriptions leave a lot to be desired, it is a real shame that the people that want to be heard/seen are often not the best candidates to do the job effectively. We need more people like yourself that can actually discern between the components in the juice and give an honest review that is applicable to all rather than just applicable to non-tasting hype monkeys.

 

[vapero]

as you are a chef I think you could agree with me.
a great chef could do a great meal with average ingredients and it will be much better than a average joe using good ingredients.

I believe it is all in the mix and combination and good flavorings do help but are not the deciding factor.
I too DIY all my juices, I get a few premixes from time to time but none come close to my own.

as you said that some "boutique" juices you can identify the EM, sweetner and a flavoring from a certain brand, that doesn't mean they are bad, when I go to a really expensive restaurant by a top chef I still want my meat to taste like meat, with his own touch added of course that's why I'm paying there

 

[lasttango]

It's a lost cause rebgold... the masses have spoken... they want their space jam, justin beiber and mall food court pizza ;-) It is what it is.

One thing that I REALLY agree with is in your original statement... so many reviews focus on flavor... not on performance or base quality...

The thing I love about the cloud chasing movement is these folks would vape dookie flavored juice as long as it performed like a champ... These are my new heroes
;-) and I am starting the cloud chasing game myself... safely as possible...

 

[rebgold]

It's a lost cause rebgold... the masses have spoken... they want their space jam, justin beiber and mall food court pizza ;-) It is what it is.

One thing that I REALLY agree with is in your original statement... so many reviews focus on flavor... not on performance or base quality...

The thing I love about the cloud chasing movement is these folks would vape dookie flavored juice as long as it performed like a champ... These are my new heroes
;-) and I am starting the cloud chasing game myself... safely as possible...

Please don't vape dookie.

I guess I could make a better meal with crap than most of you could, but I'd rather eat a simple meal with the best ingredients than a complicated meal with cheap ingrdients. And I'd rather vape good quality stuff than a bunch of additives and crap that are not artfully blended. And food coloring burns up on your coils before it enters your lungs.

What else?

 

[Stosh]

This site has reviews that might suit your chef's taste better.....Vapor Rater

 

[chanelvaps]

Really? I think it is the opposite, If you have basic cooking skills the ingredients are what matters.
I do get what the OP is saying. I am rather disgusted these days at the money I spent on juice trying to stay off cigs. One year later and as much money spent flavor chasing as in cigs, and what I realized is this:
It is all basically the same, if it is Banana and Peanut Butter it is Banana and Peanut Butter whether they call it Monkey Snack or Merlyns Bow. I fell for, and spent money on, clever marketing and a description.
I have found a few that I feel are top notch and I think the maker has culinary skills and that is the reason they are better.
Ahlusion and Highbrow are two that I think stand above the rest.

I am looking into DIY so I can mix my own peanut butter and banana and call it Peanut Butter and Banana.

as you are a chef I think you could agree with me.
a great chef could do a great meal with average ingredients and it will be much better than a average joe using good ingredients.

I believe it is all in the mix and combination and good flavorings do help but are not the deciding factor.
I too DIY all my juices, I get a few premixes from time to time but none come close to my own.

as you said that some "boutique" juices you can identify the EM, sweetner and a flavoring from a certain brand, that doesn't mean they are bad, when I go to a really expensive restaurant by a top chef I still want my meat to taste like meat, with his own touch added of course that's why I'm paying there