I've had rapidly fermenting or "live" beer too many times to count. My favorite would have to be Hannsens Oude Gueze on cask about 4 years ago. One of the rarest beers I've ever had. Bottled beer isn't live though.
The Meaning of "Boutique" juice and what you all are missing.
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I've had rapidly fermenting or "live" beer too many times to count. My favorite would have to be Hannsens Oude Gueze on cask about 4 years ago. One of the rarest beers I've ever had. Bottled beer isn't live though.
again regarding base ingredients, I taking out tobaccos, teas and coffees (easily extracted in house and do make a difference) the resto of the flavors are much more complicated and cost prohibitively to create by the juice sellers so they do outsource those, that said there isn't really much price differences between different brands, so a juice from a A vendor shouldn't really cost more to make than one from a C vendor. that just translates that a boutique juice is mostly a gimmick and the selling price is just based on what they want to earn off of it.
I've use a few brands for my DIY but now I stick mostly to hangsen flavorings, and I believe they are one the most professional, highest quality manufacturers out there. their flavorings require a really small percentage compared to TFA and others, don't gunk up like most and THIS IS IMPORTANT the flavors known to be tank crackers on other brands do not crack tanks.
there is a big difference between food and e liquids (this is chemistry) so the best flavorings are made with technology and infrastructure not with organic mom and pop extracting shops. hangsen is probably king here.
I've use a few brands for my DIY but now I stick mostly to hangsen flavorings, and I believe they are one the most professional, highest quality manufacturers out there. their flavorings require a really small percentage compared to TFA and others, don't gunk up like most and THIS IS IMPORTANT the flavors known to be tank crackers on other brands do not crack tanks.
there is a big difference between food and e liquids (this is chemistry) so the best flavorings are made with technology and infrastructure not with organic mom and pop extracting shops. hangsen is probably king here.
Actually, there's a thread on Reddit of a guy who vaped straight-up food coloring, and there was a greenish tint to the vapor exhaled. His tongue also turned green. Implying that food coloring doesn't just "disappear" and remain on the coil. He was getting vapor from it, and the vapor obviously contained food coloring if it changed the color of his tongue.
That is honestly more scientific than your test, but either way, it's not really science. It could be years before we realize that there's some implication to vaping food coloring. Until then, why bother? The less stuff in your e-juice, the less likely it is that some of it's going to be bad. The reason I quit cigarettes was to get away from the 4000+ chemicals. If I can limit the amount of chemicals I'm inhaling in my vapor, you damn well better believe I'm gonna try and do it.
Just seems unnecessarily risky to claim you know anything about a topic that is under-researched, and people will read your post, tell their friends, and begin a chain of misinformation. The only correct information is that authentic scientific research has not been done regarding long-term inhalation of food coloring. Please don't make claims otherwise.
People are stupid, thats what is wrong here. I had a fried who makes custom art work out of distressed wood. It is wood he found lying around and does cool .... with it. When he first started sellling to the public, at a reasonable price nobody would buy his products. He began to get discouraged and considered giving up. Then one day, as a last ditch effort he raised his prices 3 times what he originally offered. Now you would think that this story ends with people laughing at him and his art dream ending....but it didnt. People began to view his product as "premium", to them the high price meant the product was better. He now sells this .... around the world and cannot keep up with the demand.
Same thing with ejuice, add a fancy label, attach a fancy word to it like "boutique",
add a few staged reviews and bam money starts pouring in. When your in a niche market like this people are willing to pay more for something they think is premium.
Most people are not in it for the customer, that is just something you have to accept...people want money, people want to be a part of this billion dollar a year market. We are a capatalistic society, and as such we have to deal with the consequnces of anybody and everybody flooding the market with crap in an attempt to get a piece.
As many have already stated the only answer here is to just find what you like based on your own setup and tastes, then stick to it. Take what other people say is good with a grain of salt, because you wil just end up with a bad product and less money in your pocket most of the time.
Same thing with ejuice, add a fancy label, attach a fancy word to it like "boutique",
add a few staged reviews and bam money starts pouring in. When your in a niche market like this people are willing to pay more for something they think is premium.
Most people are not in it for the customer, that is just something you have to accept...people want money, people want to be a part of this billion dollar a year market. We are a capatalistic society, and as such we have to deal with the consequnces of anybody and everybody flooding the market with crap in an attempt to get a piece.
As many have already stated the only answer here is to just find what you like based on your own setup and tastes, then stick to it. Take what other people say is good with a grain of salt, because you wil just end up with a bad product and less money in your pocket most of the time.
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It's so funny when people say that cause I think food and eliquid are so related it's uncanny. I'm quite the chef and I think they go hand in hand.
Please don't tell me what I may claim or not claim.
There is a big difference between vaping a tank of straight up food coloring and vaping a tenth of a drop of coloring in a lightly colored juice.
There are never going to be big lab science studies of vaping food coloring and it's affect on the lungs. No one would fund that study, there's no point. No one has any reason to vape straight up food coloring.
I find it so odd that people who are so concerned about vaping a tiny drop of food coloring would leave the house without a protective mask to save yourself from the fumes of cars and busses you're inhaling.
You know you inhale chlorine when you shower with hot water? If you put salts or bubbles with coloring and scents in a hot bath you are inhaling that too.
How about the dangerous stuff you inhale when you're near a fire or a bbq grill?
Danger is all around us, be afraid!
There is a big difference between vaping a tank of straight up food coloring and vaping a tenth of a drop of coloring in a lightly colored juice.
There are never going to be big lab science studies of vaping food coloring and it's affect on the lungs. No one would fund that study, there's no point. No one has any reason to vape straight up food coloring.
I find it so odd that people who are so concerned about vaping a tiny drop of food coloring would leave the house without a protective mask to save yourself from the fumes of cars and busses you're inhaling.
You know you inhale chlorine when you shower with hot water? If you put salts or bubbles with coloring and scents in a hot bath you are inhaling that too.
How about the dangerous stuff you inhale when you're near a fire or a bbq grill?
Danger is all around us, be afraid!
The difference between every example you've cited is that these are all things that people have been experiencing for years. Vaping has only existed for a very short period of time. Nobody knows what the long-term effects of vaping ANY amount of food coloring (whether it's once in your entire life, or tiny tiny amounts spread over a long period of time) might possibly be.
You can't make claims that you know what the long-term effects are. You're giving me empirical evidence, but empirical evidence is very often proved wrong. For all we know, vaping is worse for you than actual cigarettes, but the effects don't appear for 20-30 years. Any claim otherwise is based on the will to want it to be true.
I in no way made any claims about long term affect. For that matter, your point about things having been around for a long time makes little sense to me. Yes, they've already been around, and for the most part we already know they are pretty bad for your lungs, but I don't avoid grilling or a camp fire or a hot shower, do you?
Is there any real evidence that minute particles of pretty much any substance has been all that life threatening?
There's a mercury preservative in flu shots, mercury is poison, I get flu shots, I don't die. Nsads are bad for the liver, I take ibuprofen, etc...
Is there any real evidence that minute particles of pretty much any substance has been all that life threatening?
There's a mercury preservative in flu shots, mercury is poison, I get flu shots, I don't die. Nsads are bad for the liver, I take ibuprofen, etc...
Boutique is aligned to "exclusive" or "one of a kind". Every swinging DIYer is running a boutique operation. It is an advertising word that really doesn't mean anything anymore. It doesn't mean quality and, as a business person, just draws certain types of people in. Look beyond the façade and things are usually much different.
What if people just start dropping like flies from Vaping? That's like my worst fear.
Absolutely. Quite a bit of opinion masquerading as fact in this thread. I would add that long-term scientific research has not been done on any of the ingredients in e-liquid. There hasn't been time really. Is there a chance that twenty years from now, we might find that inhaling pg or vg or any of the number of chemicals in food flavorings turns out to be harmful ? of course there's a chance, who knows.
We are all taking on some risk when vaping, but do it because we believe that the alternative is more risky. I for one, chose to eliminate as many variables that might turn out to increase the risk, as i can, whilst still keeping vaping enjoyable enough for me to stick with.
For me this means, staying away from diketones as best i can, not sub-ohming, avoiding food coloring etc ... Others might have different criteria, or non at all, in what they will or won't vape. Fair enough, individual choice. I agree with you though, that it is irresponsible to state that vaping food coloring is harmless in the long term without adequate data. Heck, i'm not prepared to make that statement for pg or vg either.
Sorry if i derailed this thread more than it already is, but i really have no opinion as far as Mad Murdoch goes, nor which pg/vg/nic base is objectively of superior quality.
It's a great marketing strategy. In commercial real estate we do the same thing. If a property is not moving we jack up the rates or price and boom---activity. Another old trick is to raise scaffolding at a vertical building. It's now "under renovation" and the seekers come and seek. So simple yet so effective. Yes, scaffolding is not cheap.
reb, the best stance here is to take the Kent Brooks of Nicoticket approach: I am not quoting but basically his position is that we do not know- assume it is very bad, assume it is harmful, there is not enough scientific data. This stance costs you nothing and fends off all the abuse you are opening yourself up to. Any other stance is simply impossible to defend and every time you try to defend it you get smaller and smaller and smaller...It takes away from your OP...which is valid at its core
I am in agreement with French Fry. I think of "boutique" as 'one of a kind' (or at least few of a kind) in clothes I think it means 'not mass produced'
If this is the case that eliminates most of the junk at Giant Vapes (except Neckbeards Nectar which I LUV)
If this is the case that eliminates most of the junk at Giant Vapes (except Neckbeards Nectar which I LUV)
reb, this is the phallacy of your OP as this scenario will never ever exist. It does not exist for any product type let alone for smoke juice. As long as there is the internet there will be "reviewers" and any Tom .... or Harry throwing their
in. There are billion dollar internet sites counting on it; YELP for instance and so many others. Your IDEAL is perfect. The practical reality or even possibility is highly unlikely if not altogether impossible.
Most raved about hi end juices ive tried like AIV all tasted the same the "premium" ones most of the time taste like chemicals with almost no flavor.
last night, for giggles, I visited a bar that caters to vapors in the town I am near. I helped to set this up as smoking is now not allowed in any building in the city. The bar set up a vape shop that sells liquids and they even started stocking a few "premium liquids" at 3-4 times the cost. As the owner was a friend I was able to play a game with him. I brought in my juice that was an attempt at copying one of them (pretty easy, a butterscotch custard mix) and invited people to vape them both on the same type of machine and clearomizer. There was one (I repeat ONE person) out of the hundred plus, that could tell the difference. Most people thought we were pouring the juice into the fancy bottle from the jug I brought in with me. So the $35 bottle of 30 mil juice and my $40 gallon jug of home made juice and only one of them could tell.
Better? Worse? Same? Meh... My uneducated/unprofessional and NEW TO DIY ability to mimic a "premium juice" at a significant savings... Can I do that with all juices, no. Will I be able to, probably. Should I scream that the word premium/boutique be removed? No. If they can sell it, and people buy it at that cost I say go for it. Will I pay that? No I will also caution as many people as I can against doing so.
Better? Worse? Same? Meh... My uneducated/unprofessional and NEW TO DIY ability to mimic a "premium juice" at a significant savings... Can I do that with all juices, no. Will I be able to, probably. Should I scream that the word premium/boutique be removed? No. If they can sell it, and people buy it at that cost I say go for it. Will I pay that? No I will also caution as many people as I can against doing so.
PG,VG,flavorings(sweeteners),alcohol(other than whats in some flavorings),may a little distilled water,nicotine level if used, and your formula.
mix well.
ta da! my juice is premium,yours is not.
good marketing doesn't hurt regards,
mike
mix well.
ta da! my juice is premium,yours is not.
good marketing doesn't hurt regards,
mike
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