the most healthy liquid?
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Here's the thing... Most e-liquids DO contain the same compounds that are in anti-freeze and some detergents. The most common carriers for the nicotine base are propylene glycol, which is the "non-toxic" anti-freeze (as opposed to ethylene glycol, which was used for anti-freeze for decades, but is quite toxic), and vegetable glycerin, which is sometimes used in soaps and detergents. The fact that these compounds are used in anti-freeze and detergent, though, does not necessarily make them harmful. You do NOT want a "plain liquid nicotine", in fact, because nicotine is very toxic in high doses, and is used as a pesticide.
There's no anti-freeze in e-liquid.
E-liquid consists of nicotine (or not), VG and or PG and flavorings. Pretty simple stuff. The only real ingredient that isn't thoroughly tested as far as vaping might be the food based flavorings. You can always vape unflavored e-liquid.
E-liquid consists of nicotine (or not), VG and or PG and flavorings. Pretty simple stuff. The only real ingredient that isn't thoroughly tested as far as vaping might be the food based flavorings. You can always vape unflavored e-liquid.
Sorry, Caridwen, we posted at the same time. My comment was in response to the OP, not yours. I think you are right in that when most people think of anti-freeze, they are thinking of ethylene glycol, which we've all been warned can kill animals if it spills or leaks and they lick it. Propylene glycol is currently used in "non-toxic" and food grade anti-freeze, though.
I think I'm the organic/natural nut job on the forum, at least I haven't run into anyone more particular than I am. So here's what I do.
I use 100% USP Kosher VG. If I could find organic I would. VG is all natural and made from plants. PG is a man made petrochemical. There is a ton of research showing PG is fine. Many are happy to use it and if it keeps you off analogs, more power to you. It's a personal choice and mine is to avoid PG.
I use USDA-certified organic flavorings from Nature's Flavors and mix my own liquid. I do not use any artificial sweeteners or ingredients.
Before I mixed my own, and even now I buy from Virgin Vapor, which follows the same principles. My flavorings do contain alcohol, but you can get alcohol-free juice in Virgin's Absolute line, and their stuff is amazing.
The other potential risk is diacetyl, which is often added to artificial flavors, but also occurs naturally in the creamy, buttery flavors. There is evidence to suggest that inhaling diacetyl is not good. However, the tiny amounts that occur naturally in natural flavors is far below the threshold supported by that evidence. You can avoid it entirely by avoiding the creamy flavors.
So, in my research I've found Virgin Vapor's Absolute Line to be the purest, "safest" juice- that also tastes amazing. Personally I chose to mix my own, so I have even more control. If you want to learn about DIY check out the DIY subforum under E-Liquids.
I use 100% USP Kosher VG. If I could find organic I would. VG is all natural and made from plants. PG is a man made petrochemical. There is a ton of research showing PG is fine. Many are happy to use it and if it keeps you off analogs, more power to you. It's a personal choice and mine is to avoid PG.
I use USDA-certified organic flavorings from Nature's Flavors and mix my own liquid. I do not use any artificial sweeteners or ingredients.
Before I mixed my own, and even now I buy from Virgin Vapor, which follows the same principles. My flavorings do contain alcohol, but you can get alcohol-free juice in Virgin's Absolute line, and their stuff is amazing.
The other potential risk is diacetyl, which is often added to artificial flavors, but also occurs naturally in the creamy, buttery flavors. There is evidence to suggest that inhaling diacetyl is not good. However, the tiny amounts that occur naturally in natural flavors is far below the threshold supported by that evidence. You can avoid it entirely by avoiding the creamy flavors.
So, in my research I've found Virgin Vapor's Absolute Line to be the purest, "safest" juice- that also tastes amazing. Personally I chose to mix my own, so I have even more control. If you want to learn about DIY check out the DIY subforum under E-Liquids.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/277267-purity-pg-vg-peg-short-version.html
VG
Glycerine should only be inhaled in pharma grade, which is often synthetic. The use of the term VG to describe the glycerine we use for inhalation is probably obsolete now, and stems from the early days of e-cigarette use when there was little use of Glycerine USP and DIYers had a choice between vegetable-source glycerine and animal-source glycerine [1]. Pharma grade glycerine for inhalation - the only type that should be used - is frequently synthetic [2] and therefore absolutely pure, so its origin is irrelevant.
[1] Glycerine can be made from a multiplicity of sources including animal carcases, biodiesel manufacture byproduct, palm oil, coconut oil, a combination of vegetable sources, or synthetically.
[2] To see more info on pharma grade glycerine, google 'dow optim'.
VG
Glycerine should only be inhaled in pharma grade, which is often synthetic. The use of the term VG to describe the glycerine we use for inhalation is probably obsolete now, and stems from the early days of e-cigarette use when there was little use of Glycerine USP and DIYers had a choice between vegetable-source glycerine and animal-source glycerine [1]. Pharma grade glycerine for inhalation - the only type that should be used - is frequently synthetic [2] and therefore absolutely pure, so its origin is irrelevant.
[1] Glycerine can be made from a multiplicity of sources including animal carcases, biodiesel manufacture byproduct, palm oil, coconut oil, a combination of vegetable sources, or synthetically.
[2] To see more info on pharma grade glycerine, google 'dow optim'.
I'm not disputing anything in your post Skoot. Just want to point out it's important to use Pharma grade PG & VG. Not sure if the OP has a difficult time getting ingredients. Good point on the diacetyl!
so, does this mean that any e-liquids that are sold on the internet should be considered relatively safe?
Hmmm, not sure I'd go that far--the internet is a big place and there are all kinds of things out there. But if you stick with the suppliers that are registered here on ECF, you should be relatively safe.
A couple of places to look for suppliers here:
Forum Suppliers
E Cigarette Suppliers Forum
Nope, just that the ingredients generally used to make eliquid are considered safe for human consumption. Whether that means they are all totally safe to inhale over a long period of time, no one can be sure of yet. I think most here would agree the harm reduction compared to smoking is significant enough to take what might be a slight risk down the line.
As far as, should you consider any eliquid product found on the internet to be safe? I wouldn't say that about any type of product bought over the internet that is consumed. If that's an issue, you can buy the ingredients individually and make your own ejuice easily. I'm not concerned about the juice I buy from vendors over the internet as a matter of personal choice, and my guess is most people here that order from vendors do so trusting they'll get a relatively safe product.
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No e liquids contain antifreeze. Saying that something which is used in antifreeze was found in an e cigarette is totally different. You can find water in antifreeze but that doesn't make it antifreeze. It doesn't make it dangerous. It just makes the comparison stupid. I can't believe the fda would ever say something so stupid.
The least harmful e liquid is unflavored liquid made from synthetic nicotine which is suspended in plain old propylene glycol and glycerin which was produced in an American or European pharmaceutical lab.
Flavors are an unknown to some degree and that is were uncertainty seems to reside. Its likely that over the coming years some flavors will be identified as safe to inhale. At the moment many vapers choose to avoid diacetyl and some others avoid cinnamon.
I also chose to use virgin vapors and I think buying there custom flavor and adding unflavored to the description is absolutely safe to vape.
Nicotine is not considered carcinogenic and the dosage you use is your choice. Nicotine can accelerate your heart rate but I suspect it is dramatically lower than tobacco. Still, you can take too much.
Propylene glycol is what has been used in asthma inhalers for the last 60 years. Its also been used in hospital ventilation systems to keep the air clean. Simply put, its safer to inhale than Los Angeles air.
Glycerin is a carbohydrate generally derived from coconuts. Not only can you eat it but you can digest it. Studies have shown that it passes safely through the lungs.
Buy a good high quality vaporizer and keep it clean. Don't go safe on your liquid and buy cheap Chinese knockoff.
Nicotine is not considered carcinogenic and the dosage you use is your choice. Nicotine can accelerate your heart rate but I suspect it is dramatically lower than tobacco. Still, you can take too much.
Propylene glycol is what has been used in asthma inhalers for the last 60 years. Its also been used in hospital ventilation systems to keep the air clean. Simply put, its safer to inhale than Los Angeles air.
Glycerin is a carbohydrate generally derived from coconuts. Not only can you eat it but you can digest it. Studies have shown that it passes safely through the lungs.
Buy a good high quality vaporizer and keep it clean. Don't go safe on your liquid and buy cheap Chinese knockoff.
The person to talk to regarding that would be Rolygate. He wrote that information and I know he's pretty particular about what he vapes. You could ask in Ask the Vets.
Depends on your definition of "safe," I guess. The safest thing you could probably do is not smoke or vape. If you want the act but not the sheer danger of smoking, the safest route would be vaping. Once again, if you still want the "act," meaning chewing gum won't work or even snus--which has been studied to death and generally regarded as relatively safe--then I would say that the majority of eliquid is safer, much safer for the act of exhaling smoke-like clouds than actually smoking.
Eliquid (vaping) vs. Smoking? Eliquid is safer.
No smoking and no vaping--nicotine free? Probably is safest, but only in this specific context--what is really safe? I know what actually is NOT safe, but what IS safe? Dunno.
To the OP:
Just wondering if you read one of the so-called "studies" that are floating around on the internet about e-cigs and e-liquids. A lot of those contain a lot of inaccurate information. Most of the correct, factual information is found here in these forums, by people who've done a lot more research (and by those people who have a lot more at stake than so-called "experts" making false claims).
Just wondering if you read one of the so-called "studies" that are floating around on the internet about e-cigs and e-liquids. A lot of those contain a lot of inaccurate information. Most of the correct, factual information is found here in these forums, by people who've done a lot more research (and by those people who have a lot more at stake than so-called "experts" making false claims).
Jae Lee, in my previous post I was a bit caught up on the finality of the word "safe." Look, the bottom line is I am safe now from the dangers of smoking further. That feels safe as heck!
jdrewry made premium points. Study up.
jdrewry made premium points. Study up.
Use of the word safe can be very subjective. If nicotine, pg, and VG cannot be shown to be harmful if inhaled then it is illogical to say they are unsafe. If you read some of what the fda has expressed on e cigarettes you can see a good example of that subjectivity in safety. They like to make claims on safety based upon words like could and may with notional concepts like appeal to children and finish with a concern for not being proven safe.
It's a game of language they are playing. You could replace e cigarettes with koolaid in their articles and the argument is equally valid that they express.
It's a game of language they are playing. You could replace e cigarettes with koolaid in their articles and the argument is equally valid that they express.
A couple of other vendors that use all-natural, all-organic flavorings in addition to Virgin Vapors is Dripeez and Vaprite.
I've been chain vaping for over 3 years.
I'm living proof that vaping is safe for 3 years.
For me.
Beyond that what we've got is a terrific accumulation of information (in this forum, in particular) with which to make a highly educated leap of faith.
I'm living proof that vaping is safe for 3 years.
For me.
Beyond that what we've got is a terrific accumulation of information (in this forum, in particular) with which to make a highly educated leap of faith.
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