The most scathing post from Dr Siegel on new ALA position on vaping

[DrMA]

«one of the most absurd and irresponsible positions I have ever seen taken by a public health organization [...] American Lung Association is essentially saying is that they would rather have smokers die than quit smoking using electronic cigarettes»

Essentially an incitement to [HASHTAG]#DeskMurder[/HASHTAG] on an unprecedented scale, ALA wants to preside over the deaths of 43 million American smokers for fear of a few hypothetical harms and fake concerns.

The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary: IN MY VIEW: American Lung Association Would Rather Have Smokers Die than Switch to Electronic Cigarettes

 

[AndriaD]

«one of the most absurd and irresponsible positions I have ever seen taken by a public health organization [...] American Lung Association is essentially saying is that they would rather have smokers die than quit smoking using electronic cigarettes»

Essentially an incitement to [HASHTAG]#DeskMurder[/HASHTAG] on an unprecedented scale, ALA wants to preside over the deaths of 43 million American smokers for fear of a few hypothetical harms and fake concerns.

The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary: IN MY VIEW: American Lung Association Would Rather Have Smokers Die than Switch to Electronic Cigarettes

No -- for fear that they'll lose funding! I mean, HORRORS! What's a few million deaths compared to a few million dollars???

Andria

 

[Marc411]

No -- for fear that they'll lose funding! I mean, HORRORS! What's a few million deaths compared to a few million dollars???

Andria

The sad truth is, it really is all about the money. The more research I do, the more I read it's all about lost revenue. It's incredible to me that the news agencies aren't talking about this more, they love scandal.

 

[DC2]

The sad truth is, it really is all about the money. The more research I do, the more I read it's all about lost revenue. It's incredible to me that the news agencies aren't talking about this more, they love scandal.

This is why I am often tempted to blame the mainstream media more than anyone else.
And to think that is how the vast majority of people get their "news" these days.

Is it any wonder the world we now live in is the way it is?

 

[AndriaD]

It's a vast conspiracy between the haters (ANTZ), those who've spent money they didn't yet have, and the media -- and they all should be prosecuted in those conspiracy terms.

Andria

 

[caramel]

It's a vast conspiracy between the haters (ANTZ), those who've spent money they didn't yet have, and the media -- and they all should be prosecuted in those conspiracy terms.

Andria

The "haters" are nothing but shills on the payroll of those that need them for propaganda.

 

[Marc411]

This is only one page of a workbook I have but it shows the amount collected verses the amount used for Smoking Prevention. The far right hand column is the Spending as Percentage of Settlement Receipts. Remember the MSA agreement was founded on the monies generated to be used for smoking prevention.

These are the 2014 results. If you do some digging you'll find some interesting information, mostly this money goes into 46 states cookie jar and is used for made money. I don't remember what year but NY used 3/4 of a million dollars on golf course repair.

There are states like my own, Illinois that are broke. Look at the variance collected against the amount used for smoking prevention. Where did the balance go?

I can go on but then it would simply become a rant.

Personally I think there should be outrage. Where is the financial accountability?

 

[nicnik]

This is only one page of a workbook I have but it shows the amount collected verses the amount used for Smoking Prevention. The far right hand column is the Spending as Percentage of Settlement Receipts. Remember the MSA agreement was founded on the monies generated to be used for smoking prevention.

These are the 2014 results. If you do some digging you'll find some interesting information, mostly this money goes into 46 states cookie jar and is used for made money. I don't remember what year but NY used 3/4 of a million dollars on golf course repair.

There are states like my own, Illinois that are broke. Look at the variance collected against the amount used for smoking prevention. Where did the balance go?

I can go on but then it would simply become a rant.

Personally I think there should be outrage. Where is the financial accountability?

Thanks for posting this. Do you know what the aterisks next to New York and California are for? Also, did you put this together, or if not, where did it come from?

I'm trying to figure out red state/blue sate/purple state comparisons, but that seems pointless, since ALL of the states spend low percentages on smoking prevention, and what they do spend on it, is probably mostly offensive shilling for the those who wish to keep the money flowing in.

 

[Steamix]

Well...let them go on... US penal code has a clause for 'involuntary manslaughter'... let's see what happens if someone has spare change for a lawyer...

 

[Marc411]

I can't take create for it and I am willing to bet someone else sent it to me or posted the link. But I save all good information so here you go:

Tobacco Bonds May Be Dangerous to Your State's Financial Health

It will answer all you questions including the asterisks

 

[Endor]

DrMA, thanks for sharing. I'm a regular reader of his blog, and especially enjoy the comments... there is a lot of hate over his TC stance from folks like enemy_guest and FXR. Andria, I saw your comment... you're brave to jump into that fray.

That being said, it is a tragedy that the ALA would have such a backwards stance on this. Basically...

1) "We don't know the long term effects, so you shouldn't use it." We don't know the long-term effects of a lot of things, including many new FDA-approved pharmaceutical products.

2) "We don't have evidence it actually works as a smoking cessation system." C'mon... an idiot could find, at a minimum, subjective evidence to support that it does work for many people (ECF would be a great place to start). This is not to mention several studies that have shown that it does have some success (the recent Harvard study at Dr. Siegel mentions for one, but also in the UK where this appears to have been studied much better). I would think the fine, smart people at the ALA could connect some dots. At least the ACS's stance is more palatable, directing doctors to consider it as a second alternative if patches/gums/inhalers don't work.

 

[caramel]

We don't know the long term effects of these regulations, so we shouldn't pass them.

 

[AndriaD]

DrMA, thanks for sharing. I'm a regular reader of his blog, and especially enjoy the comments... there is a lot of hate over his TC stance from folks like enemy_guest and FXR. Andria, I saw your comment... you're brave to jump into that fray.

That being said, it is a tragedy that the ALA would have such a backwards stance on this. Basically...

1) "We don't know the long term effects, so you shouldn't use it." We don't know the long-term effects of a lot of things, including many new FDA-approved pharmaceutical products.

2) "We don't have evidence it actually works as a smoking cessation system." C'mon... an idiot could find, at a minimum, subjective evidence to support that it does work for many people (ECF would be a great place to start). This is not to mention several studies that have shown that it does have some success (the recent Harvard study at Dr. Siegel mentions for one, but also in the UK where this appears to have been studied much better). I would think the fine, smart people at the ALA could connect some dots. At least the ACS's stance is more palatable, directing doctors to consider it as a second alternative if patches/gums/inhalers don't work.

I ain't skeered. If he's not bright enough to realize that Dr Siegel is now working FOR vaping, he's got the IQ of a gnat.

I hate the antis as much as any smoker ever has, just because I hate puritans and busybodies on general principles. But when one of the antis finally sees sense and starts working to further sensible goals... you just have to applaud him.

Andria

 

[catlady60]

\
2) "We don't have evidence it actually works as a smoking cessation system." C'mon... an idiot could find, at a minimum, subjective evidence to support that it does work for many people (ECF would be a great place to start). This is not to mention several studies that have shown that it does have some success (the recent Harvard study at Dr. Siegel mentions for one, but also in the UK where this appears to have been studied much better). I would think the fine, smart people at the ALA could connect some dots. At least the ACS's stance is more palatable, directing doctors to consider it as a second alternative if patches/gums/inhalers don't work.

"We don't have evidence [e-cigs] actually work as a smoking cessation system", according to the American Lung Association. Translation: we know damn well they work to help smokers quit; we just refuse to admit it because our funding comes from BP, and we're losing revenue to vapers.

 

[Endor]

Andria, totally agree. I respect him. His pro-vaping viewpoint is actually consistent with his TC stance.... A way to get people off combustibles to a safer alternative. He's a rarity in TC circles, with the likes of Glantz et al.

 

[edyle]

"We don't have evidence [e-cigs] actually work as a smoking cessation system", according to the American Lung Association. Translation: we know damn well they work to help smokers quit; we just refuse to admit it because our funding comes from BP, and we're losing revenue to vapers.

"We don't have evidence" is the tiptoe dance around "We didn't look for any evidence heheheh".

 

[caramel]

"We don't have evidence" is the tiptoe dance around "We didn't look for any evidence heheheh".

Someone should send them some detailed studies via registered mail w signature.

 

[edyle]

Someone should send them some detailed studies via registered mail w signature.

That could help; make it harder to deny.

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

"We don't have evidence" is the tiptoe dance around "We didn't look for any evidence heheheh".

I always read that as we don't want any evidence, we would have to find gainful employment.

 

[AndriaD]

Andria, totally agree. I respect him. His pro-vaping viewpoint is actually consistent with his TC stance.... A way to get people off combustibles to a safer alternative. He's a rarity in TC circles, with the likes of Glantz et al.

Same for Bill Godshall, one of our strongest voices -- he's all about the smoke-free, but now sees how valuable vaping can really be, to help that smoke-free come about without terrorizing, demonizing, or marginalizing 20% of the population.

I think a lot of the antis just hate that we've found a way to quit that cuts the suffering down to maybe 10% or less of what it would be *without* e-cigs. They WANT us to suffer... or die.

Andria