We are an amazingly self destructive creature are we not? People choose all manners of things they think will give them something and sometimes they suffer greatly for choosing those things and sometimes they live their whole lives with no regrets.
The next generation of vapers
- Thread starter Jode
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We are an amazingly self destructive creature are we not? People choose all manners of things they think will give them something and sometimes they suffer greatly for choosing those things and sometimes they live their whole lives with no regrets.
I value your input. If I have misunderstood your point I apologize in advance. If I am not mistaken you do not think somebody that has never smoked should take up vaping. Do you see it phasing out then after this generation is dead? I mean provided vaping survives vapocalypse. If cigarettes are no longer attractive, and only for losers, then smoking will eventually die out because who wants to be a loser, if nobody smokes then they do not need to vape? Are you saying there should not be a next generation of vapers? I understand you are against teens vaping but age has nothing to do with my question. Thank you for your input.
As a father of 4 kids (two just turned 18), vaping is so far down on my list of things to worry about that I don't give it a second thought. It's not my business to tell anyone else what to do with their life. Especially when it doesn't effect mine in a negative way. More choices are better than less choices even if that means more bad choices. It's a founding principle of personal liberty and freedom. A principle that I hold dearly and also one that is eroding faster than the outer banks during a hurricane. I don't consider a person choosing to vape making a bad choice either way.
There is an important distinction between vaping and smoking. Cigarettes are perfectly engineered addiction sticks that took decades to perfect. Many years ago tobacco companies realized that pure tobacco leaves weren't addicting enough to sink the hooks deep enough so they spend years figuring out a wicked concoction that perfected their goals. Cigarettes go far beyond just nicotine. They mess with serotonin (which is probably why so many clinically depressed people easily pick up smoking) and also drive the nicotine pleasure buzz fast and furious into the brain. Once a person's body has chemically adjusted to the punch they become incredibly dependent on it. One of the hardest parts for a smoker trying to transition to vaping is shaking the hollow feeling during the early period. Most if not all of us know exactly what I'm talking about. Lasted about 2 weeks for me. Takes months for others. This is no coincidence nor should it be unexpected. There is no comparison between cigarettes and other forms of nicotine delivery so I personally disagree completely with the "if you don't smoke you shouldn't vape" stance on the issue.
I see vaping along the same lines as NRTs. Anyone of legal age has access to straight nicotine without the nasty baggage that comes along with cigarettes regardless of whether vaping exists or not. But abuse of these products is few and far between. There's a reason for that. Not to mention there are potential health benefits to nicotine consumption. Ones that included increased cognitive ability and mild stimulation. Much like a cup of coffee. Is it even possible that a college student who vapes while studying may actually be a more efficient learner? No proof of course but it's possible. Do people who use nicotine have a lower risk of developing parkinsons or alzheimers? That study is taking place as we speak. Results are promising.
Even if someone does start vaping at 18, is it a lifelong sentence or is quitting much easier? Does it even matter? Until someone can actually prove that vaping leads to terminal illness or degradation of health, it really doesn't matter.
There is an important distinction between vaping and smoking. Cigarettes are perfectly engineered addiction sticks that took decades to perfect. Many years ago tobacco companies realized that pure tobacco leaves weren't addicting enough to sink the hooks deep enough so they spend years figuring out a wicked concoction that perfected their goals. Cigarettes go far beyond just nicotine. They mess with serotonin (which is probably why so many clinically depressed people easily pick up smoking) and also drive the nicotine pleasure buzz fast and furious into the brain. Once a person's body has chemically adjusted to the punch they become incredibly dependent on it. One of the hardest parts for a smoker trying to transition to vaping is shaking the hollow feeling during the early period. Most if not all of us know exactly what I'm talking about. Lasted about 2 weeks for me. Takes months for others. This is no coincidence nor should it be unexpected. There is no comparison between cigarettes and other forms of nicotine delivery so I personally disagree completely with the "if you don't smoke you shouldn't vape" stance on the issue.
I see vaping along the same lines as NRTs. Anyone of legal age has access to straight nicotine without the nasty baggage that comes along with cigarettes regardless of whether vaping exists or not. But abuse of these products is few and far between. There's a reason for that. Not to mention there are potential health benefits to nicotine consumption. Ones that included increased cognitive ability and mild stimulation. Much like a cup of coffee. Is it even possible that a college student who vapes while studying may actually be a more efficient learner? No proof of course but it's possible. Do people who use nicotine have a lower risk of developing parkinsons or alzheimers? That study is taking place as we speak. Results are promising.
Even if someone does start vaping at 18, is it a lifelong sentence or is quitting much easier? Does it even matter? Until someone can actually prove that vaping leads to terminal illness or degradation of health, it really doesn't matter.
kids will do what kids will do, I always try and give them the advice they need to not hurt themselves but also always tell them they shouldn't smoke or vape if they don't already. I did every stupid thing possible as a kid and hate to see anyone pick up a bad habit for no reason. It's hard because you want to just tell them not to vape and to go away but you can't do that or they may end up hurting themselves.
I do agree somewhat, however it may also be abit of an issue due mech mods and blowing huge clouds is a FAD by the young ones.
I rather have them vaping than smoking sure. But i do not want them to use dangerously low sub-ohms on mech mods as they've no clue what they're doing. Which we tend to see quite often on the forums aswell.
On facebook the other day some kid wanted to sell/show of his batteries, and all he got was raged at. Why you wonder? He had removed the plastic wrapper on the batteries so they would look cooler. Which is insanley dangerous.
And not long ago there was 2x 12 year olds that did a review of a mechanical mod and showed how to build a sub-ohm coil on youtube. It got shut down rather quickly due people reporting the video. Which was the right call.
But the more youths who uses these devices wrongly will cause media storms which in the whole is realy bad for our vapingscene. As we can already see with the media scarce and all the regulations gov tries to get through.
If the person is 18 though, it would be his own choise what to do IMO.
Abit tired atm but i hope you guys/girls understand where i'm getting at.
I rather have them vaping than smoking sure. But i do not want them to use dangerously low sub-ohms on mech mods as they've no clue what they're doing. Which we tend to see quite often on the forums aswell.
On facebook the other day some kid wanted to sell/show of his batteries, and all he got was raged at. Why you wonder? He had removed the plastic wrapper on the batteries so they would look cooler. Which is insanley dangerous.
And not long ago there was 2x 12 year olds that did a review of a mechanical mod and showed how to build a sub-ohm coil on youtube. It got shut down rather quickly due people reporting the video. Which was the right call.
But the more youths who uses these devices wrongly will cause media storms which in the whole is realy bad for our vapingscene. As we can already see with the media scarce and all the regulations gov tries to get through.
If the person is 18 though, it would be his own choise what to do IMO.
Abit tired atm but i hope you guys/girls understand where i'm getting at.
I see no reason to stop adults from vaping if they choose to do so, however I am strongly against minors vaping. While vaping is less harmful than smoking at this time we do not know the cumulative effects of vaping. Unless it's proven that vaping is harmless then I say no to minors, adults are responsible for their own actions (or at least should be).
I can see that. I even agree with a minor ban. But on a meta level, as far as minors go, we know that certain things we freely let them do are potentially very harmful. Sugar directly leads to early onset diabetes II and obesity. Skateboarding has severely hurt many kids -mine included. Caffeine is addictive and has an effect/harm profile similar to nicotine. Where do we draw the line on "harmful enough to ban," and "not harmful enough to ban?"
I don't think a ban is the right way to go. However try enforce the age requirement of 18.
As for what the dangerous stuff kids does these days, i do agree but at the same time i'd like to refer to my previous post. Some stuff related to vaping they do is insanely dangerous not only for themselfs but also for others.
From my experience, the paradigm shift has been from older adults looking to switch to a healthier alternative, to kids (18+) who never actually smoked real cigarettes (but do smoke something else) looking to blow clouds to impress their friends. I've already laid my beef with this out there so I won't emphasize it. But this is the current state of vaping today. Cloud competitions. "Competition" mods and RDAs. This shifted from a way to quit smoking and turned into a way for .... lords to take control. THIS is my biggest umbrage.
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May I?
Sugar - definitely bad, should be limited.
Skateboarding - very developing. Let it be.
Caffeine - just do not overdo it.
Vaping - worst of all the above.
In a perfect word smoking will die out.
In a perfect word vaping will die out when the last ex-smoker dies.
Actually smoking is already dying out, kids are much less attracted to smoking now.
As for vaping... My point is we should stop say "I'd better kid vapes than smokes". Kids do not vape instead smoking (remember - "smoking is not cool anymore"). They just vape. Vaping is not a smoking prevention among teens. It's just a new cool thing.
What, IYO and experience, makes vaping worse than the above? I've never heard of kids getting fat, diabetes or breaking multiple bones from vaping. I am willing to be persuaded but I'm not seeing it at this point.
My purpose is not persuade you. My purpose is to say what I think.
So:
Sugar: body neededs it, but excess of it is harmful
Skateboarding - excellent supersize and kids should learn to deal with small dangers (it is a necessity for a decent human being)
Caffeine - one cup a day is not a big (or even small) deal.
Vaping - inhaling all the crap in huge quantities? (and teens will inhale huge quantities) What for?
IMO there is more risk from added sugar in our diet and from skateboarding than from vaping. I agree with your opinion on caffeine. This is my opinion regardless of the individual's age.
I also don't think teens will vape a lot specially if they are doing it to be cool or to cloud chase, but I have not seen any statistics on it.
I see little danger in inhaling a lot of vapor. I am willing to change my mind with the data but from what we do know it's just not there.
I'll put it this way: if I roll on a skateboard, I'm probably going to at least break something. If I eat too much fat or sugar, I'm going to kill myself eventually or at least get very very sick. If I vape long term, what's going to happen? We don't know, but we can make educated guesses. This is where I somewhat agree with you; since we don't know, maybe kids shouldn't do it. But the logic for me is simple: we do know the very real harms of things we allow kids to do with little thought. Therefore, this seems more like a moral/emotional argument than a logic argument. I prefer the latter; we base so much law on fickle emotion.
I work with primarily young people. I've seen a few never smokers and former smokers start vaping, and it doesn't upset me at all. Most of the time, it's due to stress (a lot of that here, nicotine is awesome) and flavors. Clouds don't really factor into it, but that's just my experience. Most of these guys would have started smoking, picking up our bad habits, etc. Thankfully we have only one occasional smoker left, the rest of us vape. Harm reduction is the key here. I definitely see way more never smokers vaping in the years to come, and I'm ecstatic.
People are always going to enjoy inhaling pleasant things, if they think of trying it. I don't see that as a flaw. What is a flaw is doing that a few times and as a result inhaling 7000 chemicals 20+ times a day every day, without fail, for the rest of your life.
It's possible vaping will become more popular than smoking. If so, it should be because it is considered less harmful, not because of being popular or cool, and despite it being less addictive. I would like to see those trying it to give low-volume vapor a chance, rather than going straight to the big guns.
It's possible vaping will become more popular than smoking. If so, it should be because it is considered less harmful, not because of being popular or cool, and despite it being less addictive. I would like to see those trying it to give low-volume vapor a chance, rather than going straight to the big guns.
Many of us are getting hung up on the age thing. I am not trying to tell anybody what they can or cannot discuss but age doesn't have anything to do with the question. Just because somebody is a non smoker does not mean they are a teen. It has just be a bit discouraging to me lately that many of us seem to only see vaping as a way to quit smoking. I see vaping as so much more. I was hoping we could discuss this angle a bit. I want to understand the people that think that somebody that has never smoked should not vape. I see it as an excellent safer vice to help us relax at the end of the day or throughout the day, in place of or beside a number of other things people associate with stress relievers, like tea, coffee, a cold beer, or a nice bodied glass of wine. I want to welcome all interested in vaping (as long as ECF rules are followed) into the fold without feeling like I am drawing somebody into some hideous habit that they will later regret. I want that subohm crowd to be able to read abut their newest hobby so that they DO NOT blow themselves up. If we say, go away you never smoked, you should not vape, or you are a silly cloud chaser they will not feel welcome and that leads to not learning. Sure, some may be vaping because it is the "coolest" thing going right now, if they are here....they want to learn. Just because somebody wans to vape in a different way then the tootlepuffer, or for a different reason beside quitting doesn't mean they are 14 or whatever.
Jode, I agree with you. I see it as much more as well. Humans have been smoking stuff since the beginning of humanity. Same with caffeine, alcohol, and ingesting a host of natural things that affect how we feel. It's in our wiring. Always has been and always will be. Denying that is silly. Of course there are people who choose to do none of the above. I choose coffee and vaping. I don't drink or anything else but every single person out there has a right to choose their own lifestyle and I'm not going to be the one to push the angle of making decisions for people.
I see vaping as a modern health miracle. Something that has been sought after for many decades now. Something that should be freely available to anyone over the age of 18 to partake in. The whole "banning from minors" or "age restriction" thing is only window dressing. Lets be honest. We were all young once. The only thing that stops kids from doing whatever is personal decision or lack of availability. But with young people, lack of availability has nothing to do with age restrictions. I got into far more dangerous things than vaping. Do I encourage minors to try vaping? Absolutely not. Does anyone believe restrictions will stop minors from doing whatever? Not a chance.
IMO- the big reason minors get under the skin of many here is the simple fact that the actions of minors could have an impact on the outcome of a very tenuous time for vapers in the US. Lets say (hypothetically) that the dust settles, regs are passed, and vaping is totally here to stay in the same form it is today. Whew! It's over. We held on to what we've all feared will be taken away. Will the attitude towards clouds chasers, never smokers, and minors partaking change? I believe it will.
I've been vaping for 2 years. Many on the forum for much longer. When I joined ECF, it was primarily a melting pot for smokers trying to quit. Heck, it was almost exclusively just that and was for years prior. There has been a big shift as the industry grows exponentially. Now people joining for info who have never smoked are commonplace. And a lot of long time members don't like that. It's creating a different and more hostile environment. It's becoming political now with 2 parties butting heads. It should pass over time.
My personal opinion on vaping is it really is about as harmful as drinking coffee every day. Could be a little bit more because of the inhalation aspect but I also think living in a smog city is probably more dangerous. Let's say vaping is scientifically proven to be a real and acute respiratory health risk. Could it be engineered to mitigate the risk to levels that aren't even worth worrying about? Yes, I believe it certainly can.
Lastly, young and dumb get older and smarter. Minors or even late teens/early 20 somethings who partake in the fad or "cool" part of the lifestyle won't likely be doing it for long. At least the majority anyways. I'm interested in seeing how hard it is for non-smokers who vape to try and quit. Hard to answer that question for a while but my money is on quitting vaping being exponentially easier than trying to get out from under the vice grip cigarettes.
I see vaping as a modern health miracle. Something that has been sought after for many decades now. Something that should be freely available to anyone over the age of 18 to partake in. The whole "banning from minors" or "age restriction" thing is only window dressing. Lets be honest. We were all young once. The only thing that stops kids from doing whatever is personal decision or lack of availability. But with young people, lack of availability has nothing to do with age restrictions. I got into far more dangerous things than vaping. Do I encourage minors to try vaping? Absolutely not. Does anyone believe restrictions will stop minors from doing whatever? Not a chance.
IMO- the big reason minors get under the skin of many here is the simple fact that the actions of minors could have an impact on the outcome of a very tenuous time for vapers in the US. Lets say (hypothetically) that the dust settles, regs are passed, and vaping is totally here to stay in the same form it is today. Whew! It's over. We held on to what we've all feared will be taken away. Will the attitude towards clouds chasers, never smokers, and minors partaking change? I believe it will.
I've been vaping for 2 years. Many on the forum for much longer. When I joined ECF, it was primarily a melting pot for smokers trying to quit. Heck, it was almost exclusively just that and was for years prior. There has been a big shift as the industry grows exponentially. Now people joining for info who have never smoked are commonplace. And a lot of long time members don't like that. It's creating a different and more hostile environment. It's becoming political now with 2 parties butting heads. It should pass over time.
My personal opinion on vaping is it really is about as harmful as drinking coffee every day. Could be a little bit more because of the inhalation aspect but I also think living in a smog city is probably more dangerous. Let's say vaping is scientifically proven to be a real and acute respiratory health risk. Could it be engineered to mitigate the risk to levels that aren't even worth worrying about? Yes, I believe it certainly can.
Lastly, young and dumb get older and smarter. Minors or even late teens/early 20 somethings who partake in the fad or "cool" part of the lifestyle won't likely be doing it for long. At least the majority anyways. I'm interested in seeing how hard it is for non-smokers who vape to try and quit. Hard to answer that question for a while but my money is on quitting vaping being exponentially easier than trying to get out from under the vice grip cigarettes.
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Thank you for your interest in this thread and thoughts. I know I need to relax a bit and your words have helped me to see that hopefully after all the scary reg stuff passes we might see a completely different vape world. Hopefully a big and happy one!
Thanks for your input.- Status
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