except for you know, the guys over at candlepowerforums. Anyone who has a hobby knows there's high end and low end, and the low end ususally consists of copied designs. The difference in vaping is the size and age of the industry. That's why authentic mod makers get hurt, they're joe shmoe over at authentic mods usa, not duracell.
The (polite) Clone/Authentic discussion! :D
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except for you know, the guys over at candlepowerforums. Anyone who has a hobby knows there's high end and low end, and the low end ususally consists of copied designs. The difference in vaping is the size and age of the industry. That's why authentic mod makers get hurt, they're joe shmoe over at authentic mods usa, not duracell.
Actually, clone is a term used in the biological sense. Has nothing to do with copies. That term is counterfeit.
The use of the word clone is used to bypass the not so acceptable term counterfeit.
Greg W.
The use of the word clone is used to bypass the not so acceptable term counterfeit.
Greg W.
1coun·ter·feit
Pronunciation: \kaunt-r-fit\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English countrefet, from Anglo-French ....refeit, from past participle of ....refere, contrefaire to imitate, from ....re- + faire to make, from Latin facere more at do
Date: 14th century
1 : made in imitation of something else with intent to deceive :
Other then a few low lifes on Craigslist, these clones aren't sold deceptively. We all know what they are
Pronunciation: \kaunt-r-fit\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English countrefet, from Anglo-French ....refeit, from past participle of ....refere, contrefaire to imitate, from ....re- + faire to make, from Latin facere more at do
Date: 14th century
1 : made in imitation of something else with intent to deceive :
Other then a few low lifes on Craigslist, these clones aren't sold deceptively. We all know what they are
Clone - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
1) clone noun \ˈklōn\
biology : a plant or animal that is grown from one cell of its parent and that has exactly the same genes as its parent
: a product (such as a computer) that is a copy of another product produced by a well-known company
: a person or thing that appears to be an exact copy of another person or thing
Thanks brother
, and thanks for sharing your experience! It sounds like we had a very similar journey . I can understand your apprehension towards clones at first, there's a pretty stubborn (and often accurate) stereotype that all clones are automatically garbage, some think naturally since it's not expensive, it's crap . I think this stems from general lack of experience most of the time, some simply aren't good at researching a good quality deal, or don't really know the knowledge necessary to determine a good performing device, and that is usually knowledge of electrical engineering, metals, conductivity, metal crafting ( this ones IMPORTANT, I was luck enough to work in an establishment that would cnc heavy equipment parts, and often electrically related parts), maybe they've truly never purchased a lower priced mod that's better in every way compared to authentics 3-6x times more in cost even. I honestly own quite a lot more authentics, because I'll humbly admit that in general, there are ALOT more high quality authentics, than there are clones.BUT! If your momma taught you to be smart with your money like my awesome one did, it's VERY easy to find the clones that are of IDENTICAL quality to the original, or even HIGHER QUALITY in some cases, also you don't have to spend extra for NO reason!
. To purchase a KNOWN-TO-BE equal or lower quality authentic is silly, stubborn, literally like using your cash as toilet paper.More power to you if your rollin' in it SO much that you'll forever buy authentics just to say your on that team, or because you blindly don't trust clones for whatever reason, but where I come from, even if were millionaires, I'll search out the best deals available PERIOD, however that does NOT mean sacrifice quality for price. I think if you buy a more expensive, equal or lower quality device for the sake of authenticity, you either; 1) Had a bad experience and never went back. 2) Don't know how to research/spot a quality device. 3) Believe everything your told, and further promote the false myth that "All AUTHENTICS are GOOD, and all CLONES are BAD."
Since I'm both fairly wealthy, and frugal, yet WONT settle for lower quality, I say to the clone haters "I'm simply going to own more good mods that I like, while saving money to pay for my excellent authentics!"
Thanks again for the input brother!
Since I'm both fairly wealthy, and frugal, yet WONT settle for lower quality, I say to the clone haters "I'm simply going to own more good mods that I like, while saving money to pay for my excellent authentics!"
Price is literally not a factor in my purchases, I work hard for a...really decent amount of bank. I've been paying off my college loans as they come, and I still buy any mod I want without thinking very hard about the price, you could say I'm Rollin' in it lol. But that doesn't mean I'll go straight to the authentic and buy it, I find the highest quality, more importantly, best performing device available (often that does happen to be the authentic, but especially recently, sometimes it is a clone). A great example is the ameravape manhattan, recently it was cloned (the FUhattan), and even though the pricey authentic was designed to be the "absolute best quality, and performing competition mod", the clone
(which is 1/5th the cost), has a BETTER performing button, voltage drop (very important to a lot of vapers like me), and even improved contacts! It even has a better finish and engraving (to most), it's slightly thicker even! (They made it thicker because it improves voltage drop, which was intended in the authentic! So it's literally better in every way, it'd be silly to pay more for less, unless you just want it from the original company, I respect that.
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Indeed they have low end and high end flashlights, and yes there are clones of flashlights, and nobody cares lol. With any product, the quality should warrant the price, some authentics have certainly made a name for themselves through unmatched quality, THOSE are the authentics I love to give my money, Some authentics cost the same, yet have equal or lower quality than it's clone counterpart.
I'm not sure I understand what you were saying brother, sorry it's been a long day
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Disclaimer: I own some clones...
Going through the thread, I've seen a lot of people saying that while clones are fine, they are against logos/trademark infringement. Well, what bothers me most with clones is that shops use the name of the originals to sell the clones.
I just don't think it's right when a shop advertises, say, a "Kayfun clone". That's using the name and the reputation that comes with it to sell your product. And I think that's crossing the line into counterfeiting. If really clones were not counterfeits, you would not see that. Sure, you'd see some silliness, Faykun atomizers and whatnot. And truth be told, it would make all our lives a lot more difficult, trying to sort through a bunch of generic names to find that model you're looking for.
Still, right now, we're lucky. Because if the makers of the originals ever got sue-happy, there's a bunch of shops and makers that could go down because they are using those names. I can't think of any other line of products where you can get away with what is going on in vaping. Seriously, could you imagine this on a mainstream online shop: "Sony Bravia [clone]"? Or "Finally available! Mercedes CLK good quality clone!"?
Going through the thread, I've seen a lot of people saying that while clones are fine, they are against logos/trademark infringement. Well, what bothers me most with clones is that shops use the name of the originals to sell the clones.
I just don't think it's right when a shop advertises, say, a "Kayfun clone". That's using the name and the reputation that comes with it to sell your product. And I think that's crossing the line into counterfeiting. If really clones were not counterfeits, you would not see that. Sure, you'd see some silliness, Faykun atomizers and whatnot. And truth be told, it would make all our lives a lot more difficult, trying to sort through a bunch of generic names to find that model you're looking for.
Still, right now, we're lucky. Because if the makers of the originals ever got sue-happy, there's a bunch of shops and makers that could go down because they are using those names. I can't think of any other line of products where you can get away with what is going on in vaping. Seriously, could you imagine this on a mainstream online shop: "Sony Bravia [clone]"? Or "Finally available! Mercedes CLK good quality clone!"?
Most "authentic" makers wouldn't have the legal grounds, as they didn't take the time or efforts to patent their design or trademark their logo
How exactly do you know that?
Trademarks can take up to 15 months or longer. These are in the U.S. I don't know how long it takes in other countries.
There are good clones out there and I own a few decent 1:1 clones.
These are not the ones that concern me though. I work in a shop and see several mech mods and RDA / RBA's every day. Some of the things I've seen are downright scary.
I've seen several improperly placed vent holes, no vent holes, undersized vent holes, fake batteries, oxidized build deck screws, cracking gloss paint on build decks and dozens other safety issues.
Experienced people claim to do their research and I can easily see that but there is a world of others buying products without doing their research and having no vent holes with a fake 30 amp battery or vaping paint chips can have serious long term effects.
So I in no way hate clones. I do however think that regulation is inevitable based on what I've seen. I'm still on the fence whether I agree with it though.
These are not the ones that concern me though. I work in a shop and see several mech mods and RDA / RBA's every day. Some of the things I've seen are downright scary.
I've seen several improperly placed vent holes, no vent holes, undersized vent holes, fake batteries, oxidized build deck screws, cracking gloss paint on build decks and dozens other safety issues.
Experienced people claim to do their research and I can easily see that but there is a world of others buying products without doing their research and having no vent holes with a fake 30 amp battery or vaping paint chips can have serious long term effects.
So I in no way hate clones. I do however think that regulation is inevitable based on what I've seen. I'm still on the fence whether I agree with it though.
Patents can be denied as well for products too similar to an existing product. Like, as an example, every mechanical tube mod. I doubt tiny differences in voltage drop and really nice threading are going to be enough for the patent office.
I do think that's a major concern for new vapers and for vapers who just walk into a B&M and trust the people there to sell them something safe and as advertised. The problem is a lot of vape shops sell clones (which may or may not be any good, I'm not making that assertation here, but that the new vaper will not be able to judge), and many of the employees, and indeed even owners, do not know how to tell if the clone is a good one---or are even aware that the item IS a clone. I have a vape shop near me that on the surface looks like a good place with a wide variety of items, but on close inspection you can see most are clones, but advertised as the actual brand it represents (KayFuns, Panzers etc). It's not that those clones are, or are not any good, but that it would take someone with experience to tell, and the shop owner there has been vaping admittedly for a grand total of 2 months and really does not know much beyond the basics. Even so, he happily shows off his quad build on a mech, and fires it for several minutes to show off the vapor rising.
Be that as it may, that doesn't necessarily make clones bad. It will be troublesome when someone blows their hands off with one and it makes the news though.
Someone blew their face off with an authentic, and sued the company. You can't fight stupid. As long as there are unregulated mods (which I myself use and don't wish to disappear in any way) there are going to be people who foolishly push their limits, not do the proper research, and cause themselves damage. Used to be a thing called natural selection at work, and these people would just kill themselves off, not contaminating the gene pool. Sadly............
That's true, and what makes it worse is that they have counterfeit VTC5s on the market along with one of the purple Efest battery that's really only 20 amps, same with the Vamped batteries.
They don't know what the brand of e-cigarette was that exploded in the man's face, unless there is some new information that I haven't heard. Do you have a link? What brand was it?
I don't know off the top of my head, but it was discussed at length in another clone vs. Authentics thread...i do know the company went out of business because of it. Also that the ..... user wasn't using proper batteries, and of course that was the makers fault...not the user for not doing proper research
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