The (polite) Clone/Authentic discussion! :D

[tayone415]

there are alot of cheap authentics out there too... for example the RSST ( 24$) best topper ( IMO) that I use for my ADV. the SVD from Itaste is an authentic 40$
but here is a clincher... fasttech sells a "Panzer styled" 26650 mech (40$) but its an original since MCV never made a 26650...

Yet, many clone companies will do something similar but still place a forged logo and fake serial number on a product never made by the original mod designer.

 

[treehead]

I'm sure there is a good amount of people out there appreciate and prefer the forgery of fake logos and fake serial numbers and try to pass it on as an authentic device. I think clone companies do this to get people to purchase their clone over the authentic since some people will try to pretend it's not a clone.



Yes, that is the CLT RDA if I remember the name right. Only thing I heard is that they didn't do a good a job with the center post, I've read a few people at least saying it spins.
It depends how you think about. I think clone companies charge less and hope to sell more to gain higher profits with higher volume. I think it's also a way to get certain people to buy clones over an authentics, since they forge logos and generate random serial numbers. Even without clones, people wouldn't be out of luck, because there are other alternatives, that some people choose to purchase while others would rather have a clone.
There are lower end authentics out there like the smok Magneto, The Smok Natural, which is said to be a good mech that's not a clone, you also have cheaper RDAs like the igo-l and the igo-w line, Sigeli even started making cheap RDAs and there are a few more under $30, where some clones depending on where it is purchased cost more than a cheap authentic.
I've bought clones and I've bought authentics. Is close to $200 up to $300+ a lot for a mechanical mod? Yes, and they have authentic RDAs and RTAs that go for more than a clone mod or a cheap authentic mod. But, if you really think about how much you spent on a pack of cigarettes especially 1+packs a day and everything else with smoking like lighters, gum or mints and cologne or perfume. The price of $200 depending on the person is about 1-2 months of smoking, the difference is after that 1-2 months you still have a nice mod and with cigarettes you have nothing in the end.

For sure man (I just want to state for the record that I'm not for or against either clones or authentics. I respect the deal, whoever it comes from, I counted recently and I actually own about 80% authentics, and 20% clones. I hope I don't come off as an "team clone authentic hater" .) I hear what your saying. I personally think that's incredibly silly to try and pass off a clone for an authentic, because up here in Alaska, you'd be busted and look like a fool in the vape-shops, my favorite shop KNOWS their business lol, and I've actually tried to pass off a good clone to them as a joke once, and he called it immediately. I'm glad I was ready to laugh, and wasn't trying to "play cool" lmao . And it's almost an unspoken norm that we're all here because we're saving money from the cigs! Much less our health! All the more to have the most and best priced alternatives out there in my opinion. Just because I can afford a $500 mod (I actually have one, the vapelyfe hybrid ), doesn't mean others should just because they'd spend more on cigarettes, the idea is to SAVE money, as hard as that is sometimes lol.


But come on, you have to admit if you were in a theoretical "no clones" situation, and were quite hard up for money, you wouldn't have a huge selection. The smok products, although they may be decent mods, they are nowhere near excellent. Even if you did just want a mod that works period, it's kind of uncool that some people will just have to deal with what they can.

I'm a huge cloud chaser, and I have a really decent job, I could shell out for $600 in vape equipment RIGHT now, but I'd really rather not because I'm a college student, and there's more important things to spend it on (especially since I'm really happy with what I have currently.)

BUT! I REALLY want the congestus mod, which is a dual stackable 26650, side firing button. It's usually around $300, IF you can even get a hint of where to find it in the classifieds. Luckily, the best cloners on earth, Infinite (whom makes mods that are often better than authentics, not kidding), makes a REALLY good clone of the congestus for $60! You know I have that on the way to my mailbox lol, the point is I just want a dual 26650 mod, that looks and performs just like the congestus, but for 1/5th the price, and thank god Infinite brings that deal to me. Otherwise it would just be a dream, and I'd have to settle for whatever.

Again, I just want to say that I respect those authentic manufacturers that put true quality into their devices, and truly give you the quality that you pay for.

My motto is to use my brain on EVERY single purchase, whether it be a clone or authentic. I truly only look at them like an engineer/metalworker would, how conductive is it, how smooth is the button?, what materials is it made from, are the contacts large and practical? Are the engravings/edges done acceptably well, is the voltage drop rating superior? And most importantly, what do all my trusted reviewers say about it? (VapingwithTwisted420, Todd, Grimm Green, Ruby Roo, A bloody good vaping, GoreGoreBritnee, Trevor Jones, Josh Wilson, and even Rip Trippers sometimes , they are all vapers who know what they're doing more or less, and they (combined) pretty much review every vaping piece known to man lol, and you can get a perfect idea of what's worth it and whats the better deal.

My honest opinion on clones: MOST of them are not up to par, a good number of them are straight up terrible, but if you can decipher which ones are high quality, you can get some amazing gear for a fraction of the price. Companies like Infinite and HCigar have made a name for themselves because they are basically authentics that replicate other popular designs, so that 1,000's can have whatever they want, instead of just 500 per batch.

My favorite clones right now are, the Tobeco Tobh Atty 26650 clone (2nd favorite atty, under my authentic Asmodus), and the copper 2six Tarsius clone (whom don't offer a copper). I love my 2six, it performs better than my brass authentic 18650 tarsius voltage drop wise, and is an identical big brother to it. I just love the variety!

Whoo! I'm sorry I typed so much dude, this is a good conversation. I hope this doesn't come across as negative, it's really the opposite, I'm just bantering. Us vapers are all buds here!

 

[treehead]

excellent post...i wish i was as adept as you on the politeness. LOL! research is you best friend when buying a mod . sort out the "oooh i have newest best thing posts" and check back in a couple of weeks (or months) and see who is still (or not) happy... quality is quality no matter where it comes from, and a mod that is still well thought of after 6 months is a good mod. i spent a lot on clones looking for the right mech mod for me and a year later my signature will tell you where i am at right now. if you are in the game for the long haul, look at the good stuff. best of luck with your search.

I 110% agree, I literally just posted almost the same post brother!

 

[treehead]

• From a person who has owned several businesses throughout their lifetime. Clones, replicas, fakes, 1:1, counterfeits, imposters - whatever you want to call them, cost OEM businesses money.
• Clones may also deflate the business ego, why do I even bother to come with the new ideas?
• The worst of it - if the fake products start impeding on the outstanding reputation of the legitimate company. This can cost a company the entire business.

In general I found OEM products to have a better overall quality than the clones or products legitimate non OEM manufactures.


Coming into the vaping world I could not understand the number of clones and general acceptance. But then I began to understand the poor business practices (protecting their identities and products); the lack of funds to move quickly ahead, the lack of production capabilities, the lack of understanding the market, the lack of how to grow a business. etc. Or a manufacture that knew all of that and decided to make a limited production run to make a quick profit and get out.

I wanted a Hanna Modz but could not find one for months, so I demonstrated my displeasure with buying a competitor's product. Then decided to buy a Clouper clone without the logo. And then again to buy a competitor's product with a replaceable battery. Hanna Modz lost several sales! But when they improperly tried to deal with an issue they nearly closed a vape shop. Now they have lost this customer for good.

So in some regards I see the OEM as opening the door for the clones.

• If I see something that was made in a limited run and never to be reproduced again, I'll buy a clone.
• If I see a great product that I'd like to have and can't find it within a decent time period, and there are no signs of new ones to be released shortly; I'll buy a clone.
• If an OEM has a policy of no returns no warranty, I'll buy a clone.

On the other hand

• if I see something I want and can't afford it - I'll save until I can afford it.
• And after watching a video about Provari - When the Provari 3 is announced I'll be inline!

I want to support honest, customer orientated business, and business based on quality to the full extent that I can. I'm still much about supporting the OEM but have found viable (ethically correct?) reasons to buy clones? It works for me.

• For all of those buying clones on a regular basis - you are hurting businesses a little at a time, and not just U.S. businesses.
• You are also changing the market, for better or worse I don't know[/B] - but some good businesses will bow out in the process.

Well said sir, finally someone with some business ethics knowledge! I couldn't have said it better myself, clones are basically a last resort for (me as well) when a business genuinely fails you in an acceptable way.

Like you said, if a company concentrates on quality that a second-rate bulk factory isn't capable of replicating because it's that quality oriented, then that OEM company has my money in their back pocket!

On the flip side, if they only make 99, and I can't find them anywhere on the planet, and I'm in love with the design, I won't turn away a good deal on a clone (THAT HAS BEEN REVIEWED, and proven to be decent of course).

 

[tayone415]

For sure man (I just want to state for the record that I'm not for or against either clones or authentics. I respect the deal, whoever it comes from, I counted recently and I actually own about 80% authentics, and 20% clones. I hope I don't come off as an "team clone authentic hater" .) I hear what your saying. I personally think that's incredibly silly to try and pass off a clone for an authentic, because up here in Alaska, you'd be busted and look like a fool in the vape-shops, my favorite shop KNOWS their business lol, and I've actually tried to pass off a good clone to them as a joke once, and he called it immediately. I'm glad I was ready to laugh, and wasn't trying to "play cool" lmao . And it's almost an unspoken norm that we're all here because we're saving money from the cigs! Much less our health! All the more to have the most and best priced alternatives out there in my opinion. Just because I can afford a $500 mod (I actually have one, the vapelyfe hybrid ), doesn't mean others should just because they'd spend more on cigarettes, the idea is to SAVE money, as hard as that is sometimes lol.


But come on, you have to admit if you were in a theoretical "no clones" situation, and were quite hard up for money, you wouldn't have a huge selection. The smok products, although they may be decent mods, they are nowhere near excellent. Even if you did just want a mod that works period, it's kind of uncool that some people will just have to deal with what they can.

I'm a huge cloud chaser, and I have a really decent job, I could shell out for $600 in vape equipment RIGHT now, but I'd really rather not because I'm a college student, and there's more important things to spend it on (especially since I'm really happy with what I have currently.)

BUT! I REALLY want the congestus mod, which is a dual stackable 26650, side firing button. It's usually around $300, IF you can even get a hint of where to find it in the classifieds. Luckily, the best cloners on earth, Infinite (whom makes mods that are often better than authentics, not kidding), makes a REALLY good clone of the congestus for $60! You know I have that on the way to my mailbox lol, the point is I just want a dual 26650 mod, that looks and performs just like the congestus, but for 1/5th the price, and thank god Infinite brings that deal to me. Otherwise it would just be a dream, and I'd have to settle for whatever.

Again, I just want to say that I respect those authentic manufacturers that put true quality into their devices, and truly give you the quality that you pay for.

My motto is to use my brain on EVERY single purchase, whether it be a clone or authentic. I truly only look at them like an engineer/metalworker would, how conductive is it, how smooth is the button?, what materials is it made from, are the contacts large and practical? Are the engravings/edges done acceptably well, is the voltage drop rating superior? And most importantly, what do all my trusted reviewers say about it? (VapingwithTwisted420, Todd, Grimm Green, Ruby Roo, A bloody good vaping, GoreGoreBritnee, Trevor Jones, Josh Wilson, and even Rip Trippers sometimes , they are all vapers who know what they're doing more or less, and they (combined) pretty much review every vaping piece known to man lol, and you can get a perfect idea of what's worth it and whats the better deal.

My honest opinion on clones: MOST of them are not up to par, a good number of them are straight up terrible, but if you can decipher which ones are high quality, you can get some amazing gear for a fraction of the price. Companies like Infinite and HCigar have made a name for themselves because they are basically authentics that replicate other popular designs, so that 1,000's can have whatever they want, instead of just 500 per batch.

My favorite clones right now are, the Tobeco Tobh Atty 26650 clone (2nd favorite atty, under my authentic Asmodus), and the copper 2six Tarsius clone (whom don't offer a copper). I love my 2six, it performs better than my brass authentic 18650 tarsius voltage drop wise, and is an identical big brother to it. I just love the variety!

Whoo! I'm sorry I typed so much dude, this is a good conversation. I hope this doesn't come across as negative, it's really the opposite, I'm just bantering. Us vapers are all buds here!

I'm not against people who own clones. I have clones, even though I don't use them anymore, I would of preferred to have more options available so I wouldn't have to of had any of them. I just think that Hcigar and Infinite being the top clone companies instead of steeling someone's logo could of went about their mod making a different way. Instead of forging an "exact" copy of an original, they could of easily taken the design and threading and dimensions and made slight changes and made their own mod.

If you think about what is considered to be high end and desired mech mods....when they first came out no one knew who they were until they made a name for themselves, and I don't see why they couldn't do the same. Now that Hcigar and Infinite has decided to have 1 or 2 pieces that aren't clones, when you see or hear the name Hcigar or Infinite the first thing you think of is clone or clone company so their original products are not appealing at all to me, where it might of been if it was a good quality product at a good price from an authentic company.

 

[2naphish]

Like most here I have a mix of both authentic and clone gear and have found, at least on my adventure, there are dog rockets in both camps as well as gems. I have been lucky enough to find some really great clones in both mods and RDAs (the EHPro EA mod, Quasar, Stillare as examples) but have also had some terrible units that made me very happy I did not lay down the money for the authentic if the clone is in fact a 1:1 replica (Trident V2, Magma, and Nemesis mod as examples). I have had mixed luck with authentic gear as well but that could be due to my high expectations due to price paid. As an example I bought a Chi You which did not make me happy at all. The build quality was fantastic as were the materials but the switch made me crazy as did the topcap.

I have taken a lot of the pinch out of buying authentics by purchasing gear off the classies here. I get to try out authentic gear for much less than what the units would cost retail and I can actually get what I'm looking for. For me a big reason I have purchased many clones is that I simply can't find the authentics anywhere in stock

I will point out that if I have a clone that I love it is more thank likely I will also purchase an authentic of the same unit so that's a vote from me that a clone can be a sort of marketing tool if well made.

+1 for the EHPro EA mod.. i gave it to my son and he still uses it today....nice threading, low voltage drop and works with everything as a topper and looks good doing it. the last and best clone i bought before looking hard before i plunked down my hard earned cash.

 

[treehead]

I started vaping, first for my health, "my uncle just passed from stage four lung cancer", second I was going broke buying smokes everyday. I don't have the cash to drop on a $200 mech mod and a $100 RDA. Yes I buy clones, I don't care if pretentious vapers stick their noses up at me because I paid 90% less. I'm doing this for me not to impress others. If you have the cash and want to dump it into vaping more power to ya. I want a good vape too and clones give me that option. Do I feel bad for the people that make the originals, not really if that makes me a bad person then I'm a bad person, but I'll live longer.

That's the hard (and rational) truth! Well put man, I still think the authentic companies need to ***patent*** their device if they want it to remain un-copied. I mean, patents extend overseas, nobody is safe from international court.

My copper 2six mod has a better voltage-drop rating than my $210 BFM by Bay City Vapors (which I used my Alaskan dividend on, HELL YEAH! ), a better button, and it's not a boring straight copper tube like you'd find next to your water boiler.

It literally has virtually no voltage drop at 1ohm, and a .07 voltage drop at my norm of .2ohms. It's a heavy, thick, well shaped piece of copper, with a strong as heck magnetic button, with only 2 moving parts and no seems. I can't ask for much more, especially for $40! It's such an amazing deal, I don't see anything competing with it, ever.

 

[USMCotaku]

Politeness train is back on the tracks .

I've heard some bad reviews on some tobeco clones, but my tobeco kayfun is stellar. Threading is great, seals great (no leaking) screws haven't given me any issues, and at 1.4 ohms it puts out almost as much as my omega RDA built dual coil at .65 ohms. I would definitely purchase another tobeco product.

I purchased my two clone mods in person, so I was able to check their quality before buying, which helps. I love the idea of fasttech, but am leery of mail ordering a clone. I may have to though soon....my taste vv v3 is getting long in the tooth, and I want to step up to a higher wattage, but there is nothing local for under $100, and as my previous post indicated.....that just won't be happening.

 

[2naphish]

ELITIST ALERT!!! lol you gotta love those people that get a rush from owning something expensive and "exclusive".

Like you, I can afford them, and sometimes I do buy an authentic, especially if it's the best quality, but often times, they really AREN'T higher quality. Some manufacturers like Super-T, JD Tech, MCV, Zenesis, GG (I've never had one, but from what I've seen they're slick), MCR, Reo's, and I can't think of anymore to be honest, they can't be cloned because they're TRULY good at what they do. They offer quality that would take a shat on the clones if they were to attempt them, I think the "exclusive authentics" need to step their game up if they're going to charge above the $100 dollar limit.

i am a huge fan of BCV products. polishing and hand engraving done out of house (an added expense to the maker) made in the U.S. with the best materials and quality checks available and they still come in @ $180 with customer service second to none. as an example, if you broke something on your mod where else would you get a replacement part for nothing if it wasn't your fault? or a set of magnets even if it was? in 3 days? i'm in it for the long haul and have found that when you find this kind of service you go for it.... and BTW i believe the XXIX is being cloned for around $60. to each his own (caveat emptor)

 

[treehead]

Like most here I have a mix of both authentic and clone gear and have found, at least on my adventure, there are dog rockets in both camps as well as gems. I have been lucky enough to find some really great clones in both mods and RDAs (the EHPro EA mod, Quasar, Stillare as examples) but have also had some terrible units that made me very happy I did not lay down the money for the authentic if the clone is in fact a 1:1 replica (Trident V2, Magma, and Nemesis mod as examples). I have had mixed luck with authentic gear as well but that could be due to my high expectations due to price paid. As an example I bought a Chi You which did not make me happy at all. The build quality was fantastic as were the materials but the switch made me crazy as did the topcap.

I have taken a lot of the pinch out of buying authentics by purchasing gear off the classies here. I get to try out authentic gear for much less than what the units would cost retail and I can actually get what I'm looking for. For me a big reason I have purchased many clones is that I simply can't find the authentics anywhere in stock

I will point out that if I have a clone that I love it is more thank likely I will also purchase an authentic of the same unit so that's a vote from me that a clone can be a sort of marketing tool if well made.

Agreed! I've always considered clones to be the "blockbuster" of vaping equipment lol . I wish I said it first, if I love a clone, I WILL end up buying the authentic in hopes of it getting even better. My HCigar turtleship v2 was my favorite mod for a long time (still has the best button ever, and hits hard too), when I went to the authentic, it was backwards, I actually preferred the clone because they had fixed some things (silver contacts, magnetic button, deeper engravings etc.).

It's funny you mention the Trident and Nemesis clones, those were my first clones, and they drive me nuts with certain characteristics. They aren't bad by any means for those that own them (well the nemesis button was terrible, and the trident was too small and frustrating to build on, good vape though!) The magma was ok in it's own way, but not for me, and like you I'm SOOO glad I didn't pay for the expensive would-be paperweight/donation. Sometimes it's nice to take a $35 gamble, rather than a $150 gamble.

 

[treehead]

i am a huge fan of BCV products. polishing and hand engraving done out of house (an added expense to the maker) made in the U.S. with the best materials and quality checks available and they still come in @ $180 with customer service second to none. as an example, if you broke something on your mod where else would you get a replacement part for nothing if it wasn't your fault? or a set of magnets even if it was? in 3 days? i'm in it for the long haul and have found that when you find this kind of service you go for it.... and BTW i believe the XXIX is being cloned for around $60. to each his own (caveat emptor)

Your right! I totally forgot BCV, I have the single BFM, and I CANNOT WAIT until I splurge on the dual tube. Although they do look plain, you truly have to hold them to feel the quality. It's the PERFECT mod, the only thing that makes me twitch is the c-clip that holds the button in, I wish they could do that different, but I'm not complaining!

 

[treehead]

Politeness train is back on the tracks .

I've heard some bad reviews on some tobeco clones, but my tobeco kayfun is stellar. Threading is great, seals great (no leaking) screws haven't given me any issues, and at 1.4 ohms it puts out almost as much as my omega RDA built dual coil at .65 ohms. I would definitely purchase another tobeco product.

I purchased my two clone mods in person, so I was able to check their quality before buying, which helps. I love the idea of fasttech, but am leery of mail ordering a clone. I may have to though soon....my taste vv v3 is getting long in the tooth, and I want to step up to a higher wattage, but there is nothing local for under $100, and as my previous post indicated.....that just won't be happening.

Lately Tobeco has been kicking ....! Like I mentioned earlier, my favorite atty up until 2 days ago (when my asmodus came in, yay!) the Tobh 28.5mm is built like a tank! It's heavy, beautifully machined and finished, the deck has the same machine lines my Tobh Mods one does, only deeper and bigger, and just works through and through. I can pour instead of drip because of the awesomely huge "pour well" , and make vapor for daaays.

 

[tayone415]

Politeness train is back on the tracks .

I've heard some bad reviews on some tobeco clones, but my tobeco kayfun is stellar. Threading is great, seals great (no leaking) screws haven't given me any issues, and at 1.4 ohms it puts out almost as much as my omega RDA built dual coil at .65 ohms. I would definitely purchase another tobeco product.

I purchased my two clone mods in person, so I was able to check their quality before buying, which helps. I love the idea of fasttech, but am leery of mail ordering a clone. I may have to though soon....my taste vv v3 is getting long in the tooth, and I want to step up to a higher wattage, but there is nothing local for under $100, and as my previous post indicated.....that just won't be happening.

I have a question for you and any other clone user, If a new non-company came out with an original design and a quality product both material and machining and the same price as a clone and you were able to buy both, would you buy the authentic or would you buy a clone of a product that you been wanting, but is not in your budget or just aren't willing to pay the high price tag for the authentic piece?

 

[2naphish]

That's the hard (and rational) truth! Well put man, I still think the authentic companies need to ***patent*** their device if they want it to remain un-copied. I mean, patents extend overseas, nobody is safe from international court.

My copper 2six mod has a better voltage-drop rating than my $210 BFM by Bay City Vapors (which I used my Alaskan dividend on, HELL YEAH! ), a better button, and it's not a boring straight copper tube like you'd find next to your water boiler.

It literally has virtually no voltage drop at 1ohm, and a .07 voltage drop at my norm of .2ohms. It's a heavy, thick, well shaped piece of copper, with a strong as heck magnetic button, with only 2 moving parts and no seems. I can't ask for much more, especially for $40! It's such an amazing deal, I don't see anything competing with it, ever.

O/T the only issue i have had with the BFM is the magnets were not scaled up (width wise) to the size of the button. this would help it tremendously. i am going to search for the right pull and width of magnets and will let you know if i find the right size. (its not just the makers but the BCV community that rocks) ha ha

 

[treehead]

I'm not against people who own clones. I have clones, even though I don't use them anymore, I would of preferred to have more options available so I wouldn't have to of had any of them. I just think that Hcigar and Infinite being the top clone companies instead of steeling someone's logo could of went about their mod making a different way. Instead of forging an "exact" copy of an original, they could of easily taken the design and threading and dimensions and made slight changes and made their own mod.

If you think about what is considered to be high end and desired mech mods....when they first came out no one knew who they were until they made a name for themselves, and I don't see why they couldn't do the same. Now that Hcigar and Infinite has decided to have 1 or 2 pieces that aren't clones, when you see or hear the name Hcigar or Infinite the first thing you think of is clone or clone company so their original products are not appealing at all to me, where it might of been if it was a good quality product at a good price from an authentic company.

Yeah, I think they copy popular mods simply because they are good at producing, and not designing. They're simply amazing at multiplying equipment at a high quality. Which is pretty smart, because modders will spend alot of time perfecting an idea a huge amount of people will want, and then only make enough for 1/10th of that group. They simply make it available for the remaining 9/10th's, and do it at a competitive price. (Which we should be doing here in the States, capitalism is all about competing for the consumer, the consumer should NOT have to stand up for the "poor companies" .

Infinite and HCigar do make small tweeks to original pieces, for instance they both don't put non-conductive metals on mods/atty's anymore, because why would you want brass instead of copper or silver (most of them have silver). They often improve on the little nuisances that the originals had, and usually aren't a carbon copy. They often come with bigger/wider contacts, although in the same form to function like the desired mechanical does. My favorite addition they've been doing lately is taking an authentic that will give you three small pieces of tube to screw together for whatever size you use, to save money/be resourceful, which loses conductivity, and gives you an unattractive seem. And they will make the mod into one solid seemless tube, and give you three individual sizes, I LOVE that. It show integrity, and that they aren't just trying to ride coattails.

But then again, although they clearly are capable of making their own devices, they choose to replicate the "rockstars", the one most desired fruits of labor from one manufacturers finished idea, and they make it available to ALL who want it, that's the awesome part to me. Again, if I LOVE the clone, I will DEFINITELY support the authentic, and get the original idea if it's that good. It's just some aren't that good. Let's all be honest and admit there hasn't been any "revolutionary" equipment recently. All mechanicals are a tube with a bottom button and 2 contacts, and all atty's are 3 posts, occasionally changed up to 4-5 posts, and all we're paying for until the next big thing is pre-drilled airholes, and pretty engravings.

I gladly bought the plume veil because they genuinely had a product that they put some real obvious effort into, and it's amazing, there still isn't a clone to compare yet.

 

[Bigflyrodder]

Funny how we had the same reactions to many of the same pieces of gear. I just broke out my Trident after I posted that and again thought, "meh, it's not all that" but again could just be because of expectations. I have been astounded by many clones though, the Stellare and Quasars are both beasts and can't imagine the authentics are any more solid or well built but I guess it's possible. Disliked my Nemesis so much that I can't ever see myself spending money on an authentic as there are so many other mods out there to try but again that is just my experience. Againt to my point of using a clone and then buying the authentic my next RDA will most likely be an authentic Zenith V2. I like the way the clone vapes but the metal seems really thin to me so I'm interested to see how the authentic compares.

Like everything else in life the best bet at getting gear you will be happy with is to research it like crazy first and go from there. Isn't it wonderful to be vaping now during a time where there are so many great options both authentic and reproduction? I for one feel very lucky.

 

[treehead]

there are alot of cheap authentics out there too... for example the RSST ( 24$) best topper ( IMO) that I use for my ADV. the SVD from Itaste is an authentic 40$
but here is a clincher... Fasttech sells a "Panzer styled" 26650 mech (40$) but its an original since MCV never made a 26650...

That's awesome! Although I don't care much for the Panzer due to it's voltage drop, I bet that thing looks awesome!

 

[tayone415]

Why does it matter if they're a clone company? Does that make them perform less effectively?

Infinite and HCigar do make small tweeks to original pieces, for instance they both don't put non-conductive metals on mods/atty's anymore, because why would you want brass instead of copper or silver (most of them have silver). They often improve on the little nuisances that the originals had, and usually aren't a carbon copy. They often come with bigger/wider contacts, although in the same form to function like the desired mechanical does. My favorite addition they've been doing lately is taking an authentic that will give you three small pieces of tube to screw together for whatever size you use, to save money/be resourceful, which loses conductivity, and gives you an unattractive seem. And they will make the mod into one solid seemless tube, and give you three individual sizes, I LOVE that. It show integrity, and that they aren't just trying to ride coattails.

But then again, although they clearly are capable of making their own devices, they choose to replicate the "rockstars", the one most desired fruits of labor from one manufacturers finished idea, and they make it available to ALL who want it, that's the awesome part to me. Again, if I LOVE the clone, I will DEFINITELY support the authentic, and get the original idea if it's that good. It's just some aren't that good. Let's all be honest and admit there hasn't been any "revolutionary" equipment recently. All mechanicals are a tube with a bottom button and 2 contacts, and all atty's are 3 posts, occasionally changed up to 4-5 posts, and all we're paying for until the next big thing is pre-drilled airholes, and pretty engravings.

I gladly bought the plume veil because they genuinely had a product that they put some real obvious effort into, and it's amazing, there still isn't a clone to compare yet.

Maybe it's just me, but you mentioned you had a $500 mod would you put an RDA on it that ClT Infinite on it? I personally would rather buy an igo w.

 

[Bigflyrodder]

I have a question for you and any other clone user, If a new non-company came out with an original design and a quality product both material and machining and the same price as a clone and you were able to buy both, would you buy the authentic or would you buy a clone of a product that you been wanting, but is not in your budget or just aren't willing to pay the high price tag for the authentic piece?

Hmmm, interesting question. I can honestly say that many if not most of the clone RDAs I have I bought because I could not find the authentic in stock anywhere at any price. To that point, if there was better availability I would often if not always buy the authentic even though it is higher priced. I'm one of the people that don't think that many of the mod/topper manufacturers are trying to "gouge" us with pricing and will try to help support them whenever I can.

Don't forget folks that if there are no authentics there can be no clones! We need those guys to stay in business and trust me, many of the best are dropping out of the game because they just can't afford to do it anymore and that is partly if not largely due to clones so we all need to buy the authentics when we can if we can.

 

[Bigflyrodder]

Yeah, I think they copy popular mods simply because they are good at producing, and not designing. They're simply amazing at multiplying equipment at a high quality. Which is pretty smart, because modders will spend alot of time perfecting an idea a huge amount of people will want, and then only make enough for 1/10th of that group. They simply make it available for the remaining 9/10th's, and do it at a competitive price. (Which we should be doing here in the States, capitalism is all about competing for the consumer, the consumer should NOT have to stand up for the "poor companies" .

Infinite and HCigar do make small tweeks to original pieces, for instance they both don't put non-conductive metals on mods/atty's anymore, because why would you want brass instead of copper or silver (most of them have silver). They often improve on the little nuisances that the originals had, and usually aren't a carbon copy. They often come with bigger/wider contacts, although in the same form to function like the desired mechanical does. My favorite addition they've been doing lately is taking an authentic that will give you three small pieces of tube to screw together for whatever size you use, to save money/be resourceful, which loses conductivity, and gives you an unattractive seem. And they will make the mod into one solid seemless tube, and give you three individual sizes, I LOVE that. It show integrity, and that they aren't just trying to ride coattails.

But then again, although they clearly are capable of making their own devices, they choose to replicate the "rockstars", the one most desired fruits of labor from one manufacturers finished idea, and they make it available to ALL who want it, that's the awesome part to me. Again, if I LOVE the clone, I will DEFINITELY support the authentic, and get the original idea if it's that good. It's just some aren't that good. Let's all be honest and admit there hasn't been any "revolutionary" equipment recently. All mechanicals are a tube with a bottom button and 2 contacts, and all atty's are 3 posts, occasionally changed up to 4-5 posts, and all we're paying for until the next big thing is pre-drilled airholes, and pretty engravings.

I gladly bought the plume veil because they genuinely had a product that they put some real obvious effort into, and it's amazing, there still isn't a clone to compare yet.

While I agree with the lack of ground breaking gear in the mech mod arena I disagree when it comes to RDAs as well as regulated devices but I'm sure you would agree with that.

To me the best advancement, other than higher wattage, has been the cyclopse AFC caps. As a lung hitter those things are just amazing and I hope we see more RDAs using that style of AFC in the future. I personally don't chase the deep juice wells as I have Reos for that but understand why others love them.

Totally agree with the clone makers adding advancements as well and I think we all benefit from that. Keep in mind that it was one of the clones that improved on the KFL and brought it to KFL+ with a greatly improved AFC as well as recessed fill screw and such. These changes were added to the authentics themselves in the next revision!