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This is scary

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Ms. Creant

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Neither my brothers nor I had any vaccines when we were children. My parents were of the mindset that immunities should be built, not inhibited. None of us got sick, no measles, no mumps, no chickenpox or any of the childhood diseases.

My husband gets the flu shot, I do not get the flu shot. He gets the flu every winter and I remain flu free.

My tinfoil hat is firmly in place. :)


The last time I got the flu, almost 20 years ago, was the only year I had gotten a flu shot in my adult life. It was a real ... kicker too, 10 minutes to crawl to the bathroom because my muscles were in so much pain.
 

NoizMaker

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I have debated this topic to death on the old radio site and I have a tendency toward bias with my pathological fear of needles. I never get a flu shot, the only year I did get one (when I was still very young) I was sicker than a dog.

The way I personally see it is this;

Society as we know it wouldn't exist without antibiotics and vaccines. I am one of the unlucky folks who is allergic to pretty much any antibiotic and have a fear of needles of any sort (You won't even see a tattoo on me for this very reason). My fear is about what they are putting into my body concerning my allergies and considering what they truly use for manufacturing vaccines I find it all to be a very valid fear.

When I hear "mandatory vaccination" I get scared a little, then I take a step back and think about the money. Money is to be made from vaccinating a populace... Even if we don't take the shot, they are still bought and paid for with our tax dollars then possibly re-sold or donated to the impoverished.

I won't pretend to be in favor of vaccines but won't claim they do no good because historically speaking they have done an un-ignorable service to mankind.. But that was when the Hippocratic oath meant more than it does now. Everyone is on a BP drug... In pain? Here's some anti-depressants! Got a muscular problem? Here's some anti-depressants!

We live in an over medicated society with a mission to develop consumable drugs that relieve symptoms instead of causes because curing a disease makes less money and this also applies to modern vaccines for the majority of us... It's a sad truth but look at pain medications, you can buy all the acetaminophen and ibuprofen your heart desires but no one has developed the pill that will cure all headaches forever... Why is that? Well, you could argue we aren't that advanced or you could face the fact that the product that offered such a cure would never be consumed twice and that doesn't jive well in a Capitalist society.

Remember folks, money is power, power leads to control and once all is said and done it is about the control over others... I don't need a tin foil hat to know that.
 
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Switched

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*SNIP

I won't pretend to be in favor of vaccines but won't claim they do no good because historically speaking they have done an un-ignorable service to mankind.. But that was when the Hippocratic oath meant more than it does now. Everyone is on a BP drug... In pain? Here's some anti-depressants! Got a muscular problem? Here's some anti-depressants!

We live in an over medicated society with a mission to develop consumable drugs that relieve symptoms instead of causes because curing a disease makes less money and this also applies to modern vaccines for the majority of us... It's a sad truth but look at pain medications, you can buy all the acetaminophen and ibuprofen your heart desires but no one has developed the pill that will cure all headaches forever... Why is that? Well, you could argue we aren't that advanced or you could face the fact that the product that offered such a cure would never be consumed twice and that doesn't jive well in a Capitalist society.

Remember folks, money is power, power leads to control and once all is said and done it is about the control over others... I don't need a tin foil hat to know that.

That about sums it up... do you ever wonder why Drs don't have student loans?
 

Song

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lol... even thou i'm Chinese myself, it is a bit scary when I do know some of the quality standards that some chinese manufacturer have. Its not all of them thou, as long as there a good quality control and regulation in place there should be no problem.

Also, I hate getting vaccinated or taking any kind of medicine at all, unless i absolutely have to. Its something about our over vaccinated and drug society and germaphobics. Personally I think we have something called a immune system for a reason, use it. And only after it fails do I go take some pills.
 

kanadiankat

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I have to weigh in here though - on the "cure" vs "treatment".

If pharma companies were the sole R&D for disease research - it would make sense that they would favor long term treatment over cure.

Most disease research though is carried out by others. Men and women with PhD's who eat kraft dinner and ride the bus and focus on knowledge and discovery. Their labs never have enough money. They rely on grants and organized charities to fund them.

Yes, some of those grants come from BP - and BP grants usually have narrowed parameters on what research is conducted (ie: the focus) and they use the results to make money (that's the only reason they have for financing research labs).

Most of the researchers would absolutely LOVE to find cures instead of just "new treatments" - but cures take money and the main research fields are not exactly rolling in it.

BP - on the other hand - can take new, proved treatments from the work they "financed" and market them however they want. It's how ...... was born (a treatment for a vascular ailment with the side effect of... well you know.... - marketed exclusively toward that side effect - dragging in billions of dollars).

BP can also use their money to finance their own labs and their own research facilities. They often get sued for hiding side effects and problems they were well aware from this kind of research - and (imho) deserve it entirely. They are corporations, and their focus is money.

Mainstream researchers though - these guys have an entirely different focus. And if any one of them did discover a cure for headaches or cancer or AIDS or Malaria (I have a friend working on that one right now) - that would be impossible to hide. Yeah - questionable as to how BP would step up and market it or produce it but impossible to hide.

On treatment vs cure - if it matters to you - donate to the research charities.
 

NoizMaker

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I have to weigh in here though - on the "cure" vs "treatment".

If pharma companies were the sole R&D for disease research - it would make sense that they would favor long term treatment over cure.

Most disease research though is carried out by others. Men and women with PhD's who eat kraft dinner and ride the bus and focus on knowledge and discovery. Their labs never have enough money. They rely on grants and organized charities to fund them.

Yes, some of those grants come from BP - and BP grants usually have narrowed parameters on what research is conducted (ie: the focus) and they use the results to make money (that's the only reason they have for financing research labs).

Most of the researchers would absolutely LOVE to find cures instead of just "new treatments" - but cures take money and the main research fields are not exactly rolling in it.

BP - on the other hand - can take new, proved treatments from the work they "financed" and market them however they want. It's how ...... was born (a treatment for a vascular ailment with the side effect of... well you know.... - marketed exclusively toward that side effect - dragging in billions of dollars).

BP can also use their money to finance their own labs and their own research facilities. They often get sued for hiding side effects and problems they were well aware from this kind of research - and (imho) deserve it entirely. They are corporations, and their focus is money.

Mainstream researchers though - these guys have an entirely different focus. And if any one of them did discover a cure for headaches or cancer or AIDS or Malaria (I have a friend working on that one right now) - that would be impossible to hide. Yeah - questionable as to how BP would step up and market it or produce it but impossible to hide.

On treatment vs cure - if it matters to you - donate to the research charities.

I agree 100% Kat. It's the funding that normally stalls all of the best cures that are found or being researched. My point is that even if there was a cure that could be administered once, the price would be out of the range of the majority of the afflicted patients. I know many people who suffer from migraines and are never told that there is a drug on the market (I am not familiar with the name) that will cure their pain for 10+ years.

It ultimately all comes down to doctor discretion here. If they think you would benefit most from a long term cure versus a treatment then they can do so, but sadly they seem to care more for making money off of writing prescriptions.

We live in a marvelous time for medical research and technology, and our researchers are brilliant, dedicated and honest people for the most part, it's just BP and their greed/ kickbacks to doctors who are only in it for the money that harm the system we have today.

If I myself had the money to donate to the researchers it would be done in a heartbeat.
 

Switched

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Ahhhh, but as stated BP provides grants with very narrow scope and with confidentiality clauses. The entire medical and pharmaceutical industry is all about treatment and not cure, whilst Eastern medicine treats the root problem and not the symptoms. Combine that with the ban of herbals and natural supplements and all we have left is a systems with a symptomatic approach in alleviating the problem.
 

Switched

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*SNIP
I know many people who suffer from migraines and are never told that there is a drug on the market (I am not familiar with the name) that will cure their pain for 10+ years.
Why is Eastern medicine successful while we are not. Could it be the results of the toxicity of our own bodies, from the combinations of all the known side effects of these magic pills and poor diet?
 

kanadiankat

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Ahhhh, but as stated BP provides grants with very narrow scope and with confidentiality clauses. The entire medical and pharmaceutical industry is all about treatment and not cure, whilst Eastern medicine treats the root problem and not the symptoms. Combine that with the ban of herbals and natural supplements and all we have left is a systems with a symptomatic approach in alleviating the problem.

Your right there. Unfortunately tooooo many doctors have become lazy and fat from writing prescriptions and taking kickbacks rather than treating and advising patients.

There are some good ones left in the field - just not nearly enough (imo).
 

Switched

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Your right there. Unfortunately tooooo many doctors have become lazy and fat from writing prescriptions and taking kickbacks rather than treating and advising patients.

There are some good ones left in the field - just not nearly enough (imo).
Can't argue with that my dear. BTW this type of approach starts in med school.
 

NoizMaker

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Honestly it is our food system and our medical system that varies greatly from their medicines and food supply. It is sadly our culture that has accepted this pre-packaged approach to everything from meals to medication. The food is nutritionally inadequate, the medications are insuffiently treating our symptoms and we all are doing this is the name of the almighty dollar.

If this part of the world would stop putting all our ingenuity toward the wrong things (iPhones, video games, junk foods, etc) and direct it toward bettering humanity (nutritionally dense foods, revolutionary communication technologies and so on) the world would be a much different place than it is now.

Why is it I can use a touch screen smart phone to look up the weather in Mumbai and play cutting edge games but my cheaply produced food has zero nutritional value? Isn't it time to re-define our priorities?
 

Can_supplier

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Why is it I can use a touch screen smart phone to look up the weather in Mumbai and play cutting edge games but my cheaply produced food has zero nutritional value? Isn't it time to re-define our priorities?

Because you bought it in a box, on sale for $1.99 rather than going to the many farmer's markets and butcher shops? Your phone would be as equally useless if you bought it at a dollar store..

We have to be careful on that one. We are blessed in the part of the world with all the food, and food choices we could every want. Very health, good for you of everything you need is out there on the market. Its people's poor choice, if they want to live off Coke and chips.

We need to recognize it and embrace it when we actually have a free choice on something.
 
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Switched

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Because you bought it in a box, on sale for $1.99 rather than going to the many farmer's markets and butcher shops? Your phone would be as equally useless if you bought it at a dollar store..

We have to be careful on that one. We are blessed in the part of the world with all the food, and food choices we could every want. Very health, good for you of everything you need is out there on the market. Its people's poor choice, if they want to live off Coke and chips.

We need to recognize it and embrace it when we actually have a free choice on something.
Noiz was not referring to coke and chips.
 

NoizMaker

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Because you bought it in a box, on sale for $1.99 rather than going to the many farmer's markets and butcher shops? Your phone would be as equally useless if you bought it at a dollar store..

We have to be careful on that one. We are blessed in the part of the world with all the food, and food choices we could every want. Very health, good for you of everything you need is out there on the market. Its people's poor choice, if they want to live off Coke and chips.

We need to recognize it and embrace it when we actually have a free choice on something.

I understand your point but I simply don't have the money to either own a touch phone or buy healthier food at 3 times the price because it is not heavily subsidized by the government. Sometimes "choice" is only for the well off or the rich.
 

Ms. Creant

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Why is Eastern medicine successful while we are not. Could it be the results of the toxicity of our own bodies, from the combinations of all the known side effects of these magic pills and poor diet?

The eastern medicines are successful because, for thousands of years, they worked on their medicines for the betterment of the people. Under communist rule, there was never any incentive to 'do something for money. Under capitalist rule, nothing gets done unless there's money to be made... "WHAT?? Cure peoples illnesses?? Why, there's no money in curing people, keep them sick!"
 
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