Three facts and 2 myths about nicotine

[ArenqueRojo]

Just for interest:

Nicotine is addictive
False
Nicotine is only addictive when accompanied by other chemicals found in tobacco. Alone it is not addictive.
Ref: 1 below

Nicotine is just a tobacco derivative.
False
Nicotine is found in most nightshade plants. These include aubergine (eggplant), potatoes, tomatoes etc. Nicotine is found in much higher concentration in tobacco but to imply that tobacco is the only natural source is to mislead.
Ref: 2 below

Nicotine is part of our everyday food consumption
True
Obviously, the amount of nicotine in the average diet depends on the foods eaten. Cultural differences are a big factor in food choices. National nicotine diets range from 1.14 micrograms to 2.25 micrograms per day.
This should be compared to a person smoking 20 cigarettes per day using a medium nicotine brand. Such a smoker will absorb 100 micrograms a day.

Nicotine is highly toxic.
True
Toxicity is not an absolute. A substance may be beneficial, even essential, in low doses but fatal in high doses. Nicotine is one such. For the pedants: Nicotine is LD50 which means that 5% solution will kill half the people stupid enough to put it on their skin.
Ref: 3 below

Nicotine on the skin can kill
True
Current guidelines show that nicotine concentrations of 4% to 6% absorbed through the skin can be fatal and therefore toxic.
Most commercial supplies of nicotine for human consumption are sold at no more than 3.6%. This compares with a strong cigarette having 2.4% and a low nicotine 0.1mg cigarette at 0.65%. Some suppliers are selling a 5.4% and supplies in China can reach 8%.



References
1
Monoamine Oxidase Inhibition Dramatically Increases the Motivation to Self-Administer Nicotine in Rats
Karine Guillem, Caroline Vouillac, Marc R. Azar, Loren H. Parsons, George F. Koob, Martine Cador, and
Luis Stinus - The Journal of Neuroscience, September 21, 2005 • 25(38):8593– 8600 • 8593
2
The most famous food members of the nightshade family include potatoes (Solanum tuberosum), tomatoes (Lycopersicon esculentum), many species of sweet and hot peppers (all species of Capsicum, including Capsicum annum), and eggplant (Solanum melongena). Less well know, but equally genuine nightshade foods include ground cherries (all species of Physalis), tomatillos (Physallis ixocapra), garden huckleberry (Solanum melanocerasum), tamarillos (Cyphomandra betacea), pepinos (Solanum muricatum), and naranjillas (Solanum quitoense). Pimentos (also called pimientos) belong to the nightshade family, and usually come from the pepper plant Capsicum annum. Pimento cheese and pimento-stuffed olives are therefore examples of foods that should be classified as containing nightshade components.
George Mateljan Foundation
Sheen SJ. (1988). Detection of nicotine in foods and plant mateials. J Food Sci 53(5):1572-3.
3
Studies suggest that smokers require less frequent repeated revascularization after percutaneous coronary intervention (PCI).
Cohen, David J.; Michel Doucet, Donald E. Cutlip, Kalon K.L. Ho, Jeffrey J. Popma, Richard E. ....z (2001). "Impact of Smoking on Clinical and Angiographic Restenosis After Percutaneous Coronary Intervention". Circulation 104 (7): 773.

Nicotine has been shown to delay the onset of Parkinson's disease in studies involving monkeys and humans.
DeNoon, Daniel (2006-08-11). "Nicotine Slows Parkinson's Disease". Nicotine Slows Parkinson's Disease. Retrieved 2009-12-27.
Peck, Peggy (2002-07-25). "Smoking Significantly Increases Risk of Alzheimer's Disease Among Those Who Have No Genetic Predisposition". More vitamin B6 linked to lower Parkinson's risk. Retrieved 2009-12-27.
Fox, Maggie (2007-10-24). "Nicotine may ease Parkinson's symptoms: U.S. study". Nicotine may ease Parkinson's symptoms: U.S. study | Reuters. Retrieved 2009-12-27.

Hope that interests somebody
Patrick

 

[AlexTM]

Ermmm ... LD50 simply means that 50% of the test subjects die at that dose; poison levels are usually given at LD50 and not LD100 to rule out particularly hardy subjects.

Whether a 5% nic solution will kill you depends entirely on the amount of nic in that solution. It is estimated that for a human, 40-60mg will kill you, and that's pretty regardless how diluted it is – if that amount gets into your system pretty quickly, chances are high that you are toast. Of course, the more diluted a substance is, the less likely it is that you can get enough into your system quickly enough; nicotine has a fairly short half-life of 2 hours.

60mg of pure nic is a very small drop, and that on your skin can be enough. 60mg nic in, say, 24mg/ml juice is 2.5ml, that's a far, far larger amount. Nevertheless, if your drink that or rub it into your skin (and that's a 2.4% solution, I may add) you still have a high chance of being toast. Same for 10ml of 6mg juice, which happens to be a 0.6% solution.

 

[TropicalBob]

Actually, number one is not true at all. It's the whole-tobacco alkaloids that we've been seeking as the "something missing" in e-liquid -- but those merely reinforce the impact nicotine has and how long that effect lasts in the body.

The correct answer is "yes, nicotine is highly addictive, in and of itself, said to have addiction powers as great as ...... or ........" You'll find this conclusion over and over in studies.

Here's the last sentence in the study cited as Ref. 1:

The results suggest that the inhibition of MAO activity by compounds present in tobacco smoke may combine with nicotine to produce the intense reinforcing properties of cigarette smoking that lead to addiction.

Give us our nicotine. And give us our MAOis. And we'll be happy ex-cigarette smokers. Leave either out and we might as well be vaping water.

 

[AlexTM]

Well, I am one of those who supplement with snus themselfes, but still - most vapers, around 80% it seems, at least on forums, get by fine by vaping alone. Or, to be slightly more precise, if I use the number from this poll: 50% are absolutely fine without, another 30 only crave analogs "occasionall". I don't think we can assume they are all lying.

 

[grim_piper]

Is there any way of combining the "other stuff" we are missing into e-liquid to get the full effect without the carcinogens? I've done some searches, but I don't know what I'm looking for and A.D.D. takes the lead.

 

[AlexTM]

Without any is tricky - however, the levels are far lower with most smokeless tobaccos, and particularly, what's so dangerous about smoking is inhaling incompletely burned plant material (you have the same dangers if you smoke other stuff).

And it's not the TSNAs, although NAs are not particularly healthy. They are found in a lot of food stuff, though, which we eat every day. Just not the tobacco specific ones, which makes them great "arguments". Great, until you have a closer look at the matter, that is.

 

[Tuesday]

I am sure there must be chart on ECF somewhere regarding this queston but I have 12 mg nic liquid how much nicotine am I putting into my system per ml?
And if someone knows, where is the chart that breaks this down?

 

[alter.ego]

I am sure there must be chart on ECF somewhere regarding this queston but I have 12 mg nic liquid how much nicotine am I putting into my system per ml?
And if someone knows, where is the chart that breaks this down?

That really depends on your method of consumption. I know when i have a particularly strong craving, i take a nice large rip off my vap, and exhale slowly through my nose. the nic gos straight to my brainn, and i get a good buz for the next five minutes or so...

 

[Tuesday]

That really depends on your method of consumption. I know when i have a particularly strong craving, i take a nice large rip off my vap, and exhale slowly through my nose. the nic gos straight to my brainn, and i get a good buz for the next five minutes or so...

I was thinking more in average numbers, methods of consumption will influence it yes. Using a 3-6 volt mod will increase your intake I would assume. If you vape on a cig type device it could also change it to a smaller number but I am looking for a "average".

 

[Brandnew vper]

Tuesday- I want to know the same thing. But also is there a way to break it down? to say... nic level per drop? That would be nice cause that way I could fill my carts per drop of one cigarette. So After its all vaped out I know I only smoked one.

 

[Nikhil]

Is there any way of combining the "other stuff" we are missing into e-liquid to get the full effect without the carcinogens? I've done some searches, but I don't know what I'm looking for and A.D.D. takes the lead.

You could get prescribed an MAOI, usually as an anti-depressant...

Here's a proper article addressing MAOI's in cigarettes: ScienceDirect - Biochemical and Biophysical Research Communications : Human monoamine oxidase is inhibited by tobacco smoke: β-carboline alkaloids act as potent and reversible inhibitors

Nicotine IS addictive, but so are the MAOI's in a cigarette.

 

[Tuesday]

Tuesday- I want to know the same thing. But also is there a way to break it down? to say... nic level per drop? That would be nice cause that way I could fill my carts per drop of one cigarette. So After its all vaped out I know I only smoked one.

Hi Brandnew, I looked up Marlboro Reds on the Internet and it states Nicotine=0.8mg and tar=10mg. It does not say if that is per cigarette, per pack or per carton.
I cannot fill all my carts the same way some types of devices just require more to make the cart moist enough. I would like to know how much nicotine I am getting in comparison to analogs. I used to smoke Capri regular, not lights.

 

[Tuesday]

You could get prescribed an MAOI, usually as an anti-depressant...

Here's a proper article addressing MAOI's in cigarettes: ScienceDirect - Biochemical and Biophysical Research Communications : Human monoamine oxidase is inhibited by tobacco smoke: β-carboline alkaloids act as potent and reversible inhibitors

Nicotine IS addictive, but so are the MAOI's in a cigarette.

This is a good article and it explains why they want to give anti-depressants to people that want to quit smoking.

 

[AlexTM]

Problem of course is that the ADs you can get a prescription for have often very nasty side effects, and usually take weeks to kick in.

The tobacco ones can be consumed with a risk that is very similar to many foods we eat evey day, and with far less side effects. And they work within minutes.

Not a difficult decision for me.

 

[ArenqueRojo]

Actually, number one is not true at all. It's the whole-tobacco alkaloids that we've been seeking as the "something missing" in e-liquid -- but those merely reinforce the impact nicotine has and how long that effect lasts in the body.

The correct answer is "yes, nicotine is highly addictive, in and of itself, said to have addiction powers as great as ...... or ........" You'll find this conclusion over and over in studies.
Here's the last sentence in the study cited as Ref. 1:
Give us our nicotine. And give us our MAOis. And we'll be happy ex-cigarette smokers. Leave either out and we might as well be vaping water.

As the sentence you have picked up on in the referred study says, nicotine becomes highly addictive in conjunction with MAOIs. The whole thrust of the quoted study is to establish that nicotine in isolation from the MAOIs is not addictive.

It is a myth that nicotine in isolation is addictive. This is why so many are looking for something more than nicotine in their juices. The worry is that if the myth is perpetuated, people will think that the reason their juice isn't giving them what they wanted is because they haven't put enough in. This leads to heavier and heavier dosing which is dangerouse. I am sure you will have seen on here people using 5.4% straight which is over 8mg per pack.

The other reason why I am keen that we don't perpetuate the myth is that the powers that be are concerned as to wether they should allow one addiction (tobacco smoking) to be replaced by another such as e-cigs with nicotine. If the recognise that the nicotine, solo, is not the addictive element in tobacco, then they have lost a major plank in the platform which wants to ban e-cigs.

Purevapor, Thanks for the article. It pre-dates the one I quoted and to some extent was the pre-cursor to the work done in 2005 which showed that nicotine, in isolation, is not addictive. The article you quoted did say that this was an area which lacked data. The 2005 study provided some of that data. Following on from there ther has been a limited amount of work done on the carbolines that your article is concerned with and it would seem that it may be that the carbolines may be a very significant part of the story.

Tuesday et al. I am not sure what you are looking for. Does it help to point out that, superficially, 0.1Mg per pack of 20 analogue cigarettes (as printed but not explained on the packet) equates to roughly 6.2Ml or (0.62%) juice strength?
If you are trying to calculate the sort of supplies you might need based on your analogue habits, you could try a spreadsheet which I wrote just for that purpose. Can't post the URL here, but if you use a tiny url with ycy42ep as the reference you can have a look and let me know if you think it is worth the electrons!

Patrick

 

[alter.ego]

ok, I'd like to point out that addiction is a very personal thing.

anecdotally, I know people that have a few cigarettes a weekend, and none durring the week. I personally was smoking 2 packs if camel lights a day when i ordered my first e-cig. Nw, the content of those cigarettes is supposedly 0.7mg per cigarette. Now, was all that consummed by me? probably not. But on the same token, probably not all of the nicotine in my juice is consummedd either. When i first ordered my juices, I ordred a variety of strengths to find out what would calm my craving with out the rest of the chemicals found in cigarettes. I ended up wiith 18mg/mL.

now lets do some quick math... 40 cigs a day * 0.7 mg per cig gives us 28 mg of nic a day. well, if we go by the logic that I should only supliment my analog nicotinne intake, then I should only be vaping around a mL and a half of 18mg per mL as 28/18 is 1.555.

Now, I will be the firs to admit, I vape a lot more than I smoke. at first, I was prob going through 4 to 5 mL a day. this has since tapered off to about 3, and now I find my self almost disgusted by the peppery taste of tobacco i my juice. I will be tapering the nic content of what i am vaping. I am not sure how this will work for me.

My point is, that I don't really care how I was consuming nic before i quit analogs compared to now. I do know and care about the fact that it has been almost a month since I had a whole analog, and I still have cravings. the e-cig and the high concentration of pure nicotine, with out all the other chemicals, has helped. The flavor of the e-juice, has helped me be disgusted when i taste an analog.

I will most likely want to smoke a good cigar every once in a while, but I find my self wanting a cigarette less and less. I don't want to be a 2 pack a day smoker any more, and i don't watnt to tailor my e-cig habit to what my intake was like. This is just what worked for me, and I say if you really want to tailor you nic intke to that of your cigs, go get some blood work done, do before and after panels of both analog and e-cig nicotine uptake.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

As the sentence you have picked up on in the referred study says, nicotine becomes highly addictive in conjunction with MAOIs. The whole thrust of the quoted study is to establish that nicotine in isolation from the MAOIs is not addictive.



Patrick

I understand your point, now that you've elaborated a bit. I agree that the maoi effect is what gives nicotine its hold, especially to those who suffer depression and anxiety. But the stripped nic molecule does have some power of it own. As does caffeine. And addiction to it is just as possible, though for most, easier to get a handle on. Not meaning any disrespect to you or your post, but it's best not to make stark proclamations. Most don't understand the vast difference between the stripped nicotine and those alkaloids so tightly bound to it in tobacco. And for some, both serve an important function in normal mental stability .

 

[PaulB]

Another thing I think worth mentioning is how screwed around with the word "addiction" has become in the last couple decades or so. As I understand it, the traditional definition of the word included some elements no longer necessary for the a-word to get attached to a habit. The main element I'm thinking of is tolerance, an ever-growing amount of the substance needed for to satiate the need. Not present in nicotine, as far as I can tell (or else we'd all be smoking the equivalent of 8ppd or switching to unfiltered after a few years). This kind of intellectual manipulation has resulted in all kinds of compulsive behaviors getting branded as "addictions--" gambling, sex, overeating, and... smoking.

The other thing to keep in mind is that, at least in my opinion, the pleasure component (as opposed to the habituation component) of smoking or e-smoking has a life in itself. I smoked about a pack-a-day of Marlboro Mediums. For many years before that, before I started trying to be more health-conscious, I smoked a pack and a half of Marlboro Reds. In both periods, I'm sure I was consuming more nicotine than my body needed to satiate that basic craving (like that second cigarette after a meal). In the nicotine sense, maybe I could have gotten by lighting up and taking one or two drags and putting it out immediately 20 times a day. Yet, in the pleasure sense (which I suspect varies a lot from person to person), there were times I wished smoking weren't so health-endangering and expensive so that I could smoke more. But I think that whole element isn't about nicotine.

Put together, I suspect those (including myself), who vape more steadily than they smoked, may be doing so for pleasure reasons more than nicotine reasons.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Addiction:

being abnormally tolerant to and dependent on something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming (especially alcohol or narcotic drugs)

To add to that,
Addict:

noun1.a person who is addicted to an activity, habit, or substance: a drug addict.

–verb (used with object)2.to cause to become physiologically or psychologically dependent on an addictive substance, as alcohol or a narcotic.

3.to habituate or abandon (oneself) to something compulsively or obsessively: a writer addicted to the use of high-flown language; children addicted to video games.

 

[PaulB]

I'm going to guess that's a recent lay dictionary def., as opposed to traditonal medical definition.