Throat burn?

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NikUk

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Jul 22, 2009
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Is anyone getting any throat burn of a 510? I have had my 510 about 4 or 5 days now, and am finding with it, that if I take multiple drags, or even just a long drag, that often I will get an harsh acrid taste on the back of my throat. I originally thought that maybe the atomiser was getting too hot and and burning the filling, then someone posted about the primer possibly being the culprit, but I'm still getting this.

I'm re-using the same cart for now, been maybe 3 days on this one, topping up with my won mixed no-nic juice.

Interestingly the juice I am smoking in the 510 has been cut with alcohol. I am also smoking juice in my Gamucci, that was cut with water, and that's a seriously smoother draw. When people talk about alcohol giving a throat hit, is this what they mean? Harsh acrid hit to the throat? If so, I'll stop just use water! :)

Thanks!
 

Sevenchan

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May 23, 2009
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I get this with my 510 using commercial juice (VG, don't know about PG since I am allergic and don't use it). Like you said, you take a few drags, it's hitting really nicely, and then... the nasty burnt taste that makes your throat feel singed. It's not the filler burning -- I pushed my filler down far enough that it doesn't touch the atty. It's not primer either since I have been using the same 2 atomizers in rotation for a month.

I think this is just one of the drawbacks of the 510 :(
 

DC2

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Jun 21, 2009
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I get this with my 510 using commercial juice (VG, don't know about PG since I am allergic and don't use it). Like you said, you take a few drags, it's hitting really nicely, and then... the nasty burnt taste that makes your throat feel singed. It's not the filler burning -- I pushed my filler down far enough that it doesn't touch the atty. It's not primer either since I have been using the same 2 atomizers in rotation for a month.

I think this is just one of the drawbacks of the 510 :(
Sounds to me like your problem is a dry atomizer.

I would not have suggested pushing your filler down, but rather pulling it up.
And you very likely might need to be topping it off more often.
 

NikUk

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Jul 22, 2009
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To both posters...

How many drags did it take you to kill a cigarette?
How long did it take you to take that many drags?

How often do you take a drag on your 510 in a 10 minute period?

Thanks Deadcat for this... I'm not sure about the dry atty thing because this can happen just after I topped up.

With regards to your q.

When I smoked, I'd smoke maybe 10 to 15 drags in a two minute period, smoking up to 20 cigs a day.

I am using the 510, trying to use it sparingly... maybe 5 to 8 drags, maybe 20 times a day.

I am putting in 3-4 drops of homebrew juice, and that is lasting me maybe 15 drags before topping up again. More than 3 drops seems too much as I get a mouthful of liquid.
 

DC2

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Thanks Deadcat for this... I'm not sure about the dry atty thing because this can happen just after I topped up.
You're probably right, but whenever you taste dry atomizer you are still going to need to wait until some juice gets wicked up sufficiently, even though you just topped off. You might want to put a drop on the atomizer bridge to speed up the process.

When I smoked, I'd smoke maybe 10 to 15 drags in a two minute period.
Wow, you power hit a cigarette way more than even I did.
:)

The bad news is that there is no way any electronic cigarette can keep up with anything close to that pace, and even more so with the 510 because it uses so much juice in order to give you so much vapor.

I find the best I can get is one drag every minute if I want it to keep wicking enough.
They say the straw modification will help with wicking, but I use the windmill method.

The windmill method works for me, and I can suck a cartridge dry without waiting long between drags.
But it only works for sealed batteries, which luckily the 510 has.

I am using the 510, trying to use it sparingly... maybe 5 to 8 drags, maybe 20 times a day.
Yeah, but the key factor is how close together those drags are.

I still smoke this thing like I smoked a cigarette, because I use it for 10 minute breaks.
Hence I have serious wicking issues that need to be dealt with.
 

NikUk

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Jul 22, 2009
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Thanks all for your replys!

- Rusty I hope my throat does adjust ! heh, its not pleasant yet...

-deadcat2, I had been thinking along similar lines, but I've just sat down and tested this out. I have taken about 5 consecutive drags, and on drag number three I got throat burn. I then waited 10 minutes, and took 3 consecutive drags, a minute and a half apart. On the second one I got throat burn.

There doesn't appear to be any rhyme nor reason that I've found yet.... except maybe the atty drying out? I'm going to research this straw thingy and windmill thingy and see if that makes a difference. I would have thought that my three or four drops would last a while, but maybe it's being used up all at once.
 

Kent C

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Jun 12, 2009
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There doesn't appear to be any rhyme nor reason that I've found yet.... except maybe the atty drying out? I'm going to research this straw thingy and windmill thingy and see if that makes a difference. I would have thought that my three or four drops would last a while, but maybe it's being used up all at once.

If you 'power vape' like you power smoked - 2 minutes? That's quick.... then your atty is drying out and the straw mod will give you at least 6-10 more drops before you lose juice and start vaping dry hot air. Stick to the '5 second rule' - don't hold down the button on the 510 for more than 5 seconds and alcohol in your mix could act as a drying agent as well, but if you're using VG then sometimes you have to thin it out in some manner. You might try some distilled water - recipes in the DIY forum. If it's PG then you shouldn't need to add anything. A few drops on the atty with PG wouldn't hurt either.
 

Sevenchan

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May 23, 2009
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You're probably right, but whenever you taste dry atomizer you are still going to need to wait until some juice gets wicked up sufficiently, even though you just topped off. You might want to put a drop on the atomizer bridge to speed up the process.

Wow, you power hit a cigarette way more than even I did.
:)

The bad news is that there is no way any electronic cigarette can keep up with anything close to that pace, and even more so with the 510 because it uses so much juice in order to give you so much vapor.

I find the best I can get is one drag every minute if I want it to keep wicking enough.
They say the straw modification will help with wicking, but I use the windmill method.

The windmill method works for me, and I can suck a cartridge dry without waiting long between drags.
But it only works for sealed batteries, which luckily the 510 has.

Yeah, but the key factor is how close together those drags are.

I still smoke this thing like I smoked a cigarette, because I use it for 10 minute breaks.
Hence I have serious wicking issues that need to be dealt with.

Hey Deadcat and everyone, thanks for the pointers :)

I too am / was a serious power smoker, I could go through a 100mm cig in about three minutes. And I do tend to smoke the 510 the same way, taking repeated drags until the atty gets too hot to touch :D

I find that the hotter the atty, the better the hit. But the nasty burnt taste does not seem to correlate with the hotness of the atty. You could be right about it being a wicking problem. It happens even when I'm getting the evil gurgling sound that means (I assume) the atty is getting almost TOO much juice, though...

I use the straw mod but what's the windmill mod? :confused:
 

NikUk

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Jul 22, 2009
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Thanks all...

I've been keeping an eye on this and I think the 3 drops i use to top up with pool at the top and then get used up in one hit. I dragged the fluff out, and laid it flat on the desk. dripped 3 drops on one side, flipped it and dropped 3 on the other. I'm pretty sure that solved the problem as 10 drags in and it hadn't given me a burnt taste. Blooming battery died so unable to test further. (Spare bat was a dud and is in post being replaced).

I have a can of compressed air somewhere at home, so will make the straw mod tonight when I get home. Haven't had a chance to check the windmill mod, but as poster above mentions, a link to the windmill mod would be appreciated! :)
 

RenaissancePuffer

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ECF Veteran
A common problem amongst us heavy vapers. We are indeed drying out the atomizer, and the bad flavor that you are tasting is the dry atomizer warming up and heating the crud that builds up on the heating element (coil).

I am in the process of spending a mini fortune trying to find the best way to vape, myself, and so far I'm having very little luck. Some of the suggestions on this thread are spot on. But the big problem is, how to keep from vaping too heavily and drying out the atomizer? I want to be able to take 3-4 puffs in a minute, put it down for a few minutes, pick it back up and do it again. So far, no luck. Eventually you'll get a dry atomizer flavor which is horrid. I know the problem is not that the liquid has been used up in the filler, because a simple push down on the filler and its clear that there is still plenty of liquid.

Topping off every 4-5 drops seems like a tedious process. If I am going to have to do that, then why not just drip directly. If the battery is sealed, you should be good to go, and then the whole issue with filler types/cart mods is no longer an issue. I am slowly working in this direction.

What concerns me more than anything with this is, the dry atomizer flavor. That's warming up the atomizer while it has little to no liquid in the coil, thus using the atomizer in a way that it is not intended to be used, possibly decreasing the life of the atomizer (one of the most costly parts!).

You for sure want to keep your eyes on this, and as soon as you get that flavor, stop vaping, get some liquid on the atomizer.

This also comes down to other issues, which some of us are working on, others seem to have found the solution, using different filler media. The carts that I use with my Janty Stick are the 801 carts, and they're monsters. With the large cart capacity and strange shape comes a lot of challenges that I am still trying to work with and improve.

If you're using a 510, you may want to look into the pyramid tea bag filler. There is a big rave about it in the canadian forum, and elsewhere. The 510 folks seem to be having good luck with it.

The polyester filling, which is what they are putting in the factory carts is good, but I've found that they dry out at the top side of the cart and keep a lot of liquid in the bottom half, which will give you the dry atty flavor if you vape too heavily. That filler just cant keep up with some of us ;), mods or not...
 

NikUk

Full Member
Jul 22, 2009
56
1
49
London
A common problem amongst us heavy vapers. We are indeed drying out the atomizer, and the bad flavor that you are tasting is the dry atomizer warming up and heating the crud that builds up on the heating element (coil).

I am in the process of spending a mini fortune trying to find the best way to vape, myself, and so far I'm having very little luck. Some of the suggestions on this thread are spot on. But the big problem is, how to keep from vaping too heavily and drying out the atomizer? I want to be able to take 3-4 puffs in a minute, put it down for a few minutes, pick it back up and do it again. So far, no luck. Eventually you'll get a dry atomizer flavor which is horrid. I know the problem is not that the liquid has been used up in the filler, because a simple push down on the filler and its clear that there is still plenty of liquid.

Topping off every 4-5 drops seems like a tedious process. If I am going to have to do that, then why not just drip directly. If the battery is sealed, you should be good to go, and then the whole issue with filler types/cart mods is no longer an issue. I am slowly working in this direction.

What concerns me more than anything with this is, the dry atomizer flavor. That's warming up the atomizer while it has little to no liquid in the coil, thus using the atomizer in a way that it is not intended to be used, possibly decreasing the life of the atomizer (one of the most costly parts!).

You for sure want to keep your eyes on this, and as soon as you get that flavor, stop vaping, get some liquid on the atomizer.

This also comes down to other issues, which some of us are working on, others seem to have found the solution, using different filler media. The carts that I use with my Janty Stick are the 801 carts, and they're monsters. With the large cart capacity and strange shape comes a lot of challenges that I am still trying to work with and improve.

If you're using a 510, you may want to look into the pyramid tea bag filler. There is a big rave about it in the canadian forum, and elsewhere. The 510 folks seem to be having good luck with it.

The polyester filling, which is what they are putting in the factory carts is good, but I've found that they dry out at the top side of the cart and keep a lot of liquid in the bottom half, which will give you the dry atty flavor if you vape too heavily. That filler just cant keep up with some of us ;), mods or not...

Thanks RenaissancePuffer! You seem to have hit this spot on the head...

So far today, I have toyed with the idea of researching a e-pipe to see if they get better drag :) or, second idea was go and get a pack on analogues! :(

Well, I'm not keen on the drip directly on the atty idea.... seems too fiddly for me. I want to whip the cig out my pocket and as you say... three or four puffs... put down for a minute or two. That's how I smoke. I am going to look into the pyramid t-bag idea... but being in the UK i need to work out if any pyramid bags will do.

I'm now realising that the 510 may not be the smoke for me... I was going to get a Janty, but they were out of stock so I plumped for the 510.

Interestingly, the Gamucci doesn't have this problem, but it's a much weaker vape. It's carts are designed that there is less fluff, but it is at the bottom of the cart not the top. I can smoke them for ages before the need to top up. If I could have this design on the 510, it would be perfect!
 

RenaissancePuffer

Unregistered Supplier
ECF Veteran
Yeah, I've been bouncing around on cart filler for a while now :rolleyes:

The pyramid tea bags can be hard to find. I went to the local Rainbow grocery and they had a HUGE selection of tea, but no lipton pyramid tea bag type. I went to the Cub Foods up the street and they had a bunch of different flavors in the lipton pyramid tea style. I went for the Vanilla Caramel, that way if there was any flavor left over after the empty/rinse it would be that.

Really, I don't taste any aftertaste from the tea (no, I didn't make a cup first, I was too eager to try out the vape lol). I have heard of people making the tea, then using the bag medium and no issues whatsoever, so my next PTB cart filler is going to be done after enjoying the tea. ;)

I completely changed my way of drawing on the e-cig, and I may have found "my" way of doing it that works and satisfies. This may be of some help to you:

First, the PTB's do work well, they have virtually no flavor, so you're getting pure juice flavor. They also don't melt/burn on the atomizer as the little fibers from the polyfill can do. No fibers, another big plus. There is a post in the canadian section where there are photos of how to make the PTB filler for a 510. I'd suggest to give it a go.

Second, I take much different draws from my PV than I used to. I was red lining mine to the point of cutoff (15 seconds I think?), and I am sure I was wicking every lick of liquid off of the top of my cart, and then some. Now I just press the button, draw the vapor into my cheeks like a regular cigarette (about 5 seconds), release the button and inhale. Nice vapor (not much throat hit, but that's charactaristic of the janty stick, so I hear). If I want a double hit, I do a follow-up, but use the same exact method.

A couple of suggestions about the PTB's. Don't overfill, it's not like the polyfill, there will be gaps in the cart where liquid can pool, this is asking for a flooded atomizer. What I like to do (since I'm still learning) is drop some liquid onto the "carpet rolls" of the PTB's, one per roll, every 4 drops I'll tilt the cart to see if the liquid is trying to leak out. If not, I give it another 4 drops (keep in mind the 801 holds a lot of liquid without filler, over 1cc, 38ish drops I think). With a PTB, I can get about 16 drops in before it seems to be too much, any more than that and I'm leaking.

When you roll up the PTB material, start rolling tightly at first, and loosen the roll as you get towards the end of the material.

This material not only acts as a straw mod, in that it has nice circular openings in the middle of the "carpet roll". (As you drip onto the material when filling your cart, the bubbles of trapped air will escape through those holes.) It also seems to help on the draw from the cart.

Many people have stated this is the filler to use, and it's improved many folks vaping experience. I seriously hope it does for me as well, so far it's looking good, but I've learned with PV's, don't get too comfortable while experimenting until you make it a few days in :)

Here's the link, one of the Canadian members made it, it's clear instructions:

Lipton Pyramid Teabag Filling in 5 Steps

In addition to this filler material, I am also following surbitonPete's method of dry burning the atomizer every 3-4ml of liquid (or daily). Simply put, wait until the atomizer is nearly dry. If you're heading to bed for the evening, and its not yet dry, blow out the atomizer into a tissue, then hook the atomizer back up to the battery (it's been suggested not to do this on a passthrough or higher voltage). Activate the switch on the PV in a darker room. Once you see the atomizer glow orange, release the button. When the atomizer cools, drop a drop or two of juice onto the atomizer bridge, and put it aside for the next day.

On your first use of the atomizer after you do the dry burn cleaning, make sure you take a couple of primer puffs and exhale that, it's the bad smoke from the dry burn. After that you should be golden.

Oh, and they suggest to do this from day 1 on a new atomizer, it doesn't seem to help on atomizers that have their heating element (coil) gobbed up with the black residue.

Pete has had his atomizers last him over a month multiple times, and not so much of the throat burn and bitter taste.

If you have any interest in that, check out the thread here, Pete hops in about 1/3 of the way through and gives us weekly updates :)

Getting Annoyed : This is an effective method of prolonging atomisers
 

NikUk

Full Member
Jul 22, 2009
56
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London
Rusty, Thanks mate! Tesco's it is :) I have a few hundred locally to choose from!

RenaissancePuffer, thank you for taking the time out with this. I've been nicotine free for three days, and having been pulling my hair out, so I've been a little stressed about the whole throat burn issue!

However I keep some 14mg choc cream put aside, for just such an scenario, and I've spent a lovely evening vaping away on that. I'm feeling much calmer about the whole thing now!

I'm off to Greece at the end of the weekend, so I'm getting spares in now, brewing juices, and as I am a bit of a newbie at this, ensuring that I read as much of the forums as my brain will absorb!

I need to take time out tomorrow to get a faulty bat swapped over, but plan to have a sneaky couple of hours off work to get myself sorted. I'll be prepping blank carts, and finishing of the mixes.

So... I'll get some Lipton tomorrow, come home, and watch the vids, and prep all my carts!

I know what you mean about giving something a few days, so I'll make sure I have a cart with original filler as a backup, and being away will give me a chance to come to grips with this all.

You mention you use a Janty stick. As a potential next device, as far as I understand it, you screw the atomiser and cart from "any" pen device onto the Janty. I take it then that the Janty itself is the battery? Or is there more to the system that I'm not getting?

Thanks :)
 
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