Time for a review of the rules?

[Shining Wit]

I received a PM from a mod requesting Intellicig to make changes to their website as it 'breached' forum rules. I accept that some of the content might not be within the rules but, having discussed this with our Directors, I think that now there is more evidence and people from the Medical Profession are speaking out, SJ should consider reviewing those rules for suppliers. By all means we should have some guidelines for 'quit smoking' claims, but if the cleaner/healthier than cigarettes campaign is being supported by well qualified and well respected professionals, some of who even promote it through the tobaccoharmreduction.org website, then surely we would be counter productive to the cause if we didn't take advantage of such positive publicity. We need all the allies we can muster and having bona-fide people on our side can only enhance our credibility. Suppliers' websites are one of the prime channels of communication with the end user and potential 'converts' and we should be able to state our case there within reason. Now that the medical profession is becoming aware of the potential benefits, I am receiving lots of enquiries regarding placing our product within the various Health Services and it is already available, even recommended, by Avon Obesity Service which is based in Spire Hospital, Bristol, as you can see from the article pasted below. It's time now for the ecig industry to stop hiding and to come clean, we have much more support than six months ago and we should be pushing our points forward rather than behaving furtively like some schoolkids smoking behind the bike shed.
Having looked at a fair number of suppliers' websites, it's obvious that many would require change to suit the current policy. Why not revise the guidelines and make them more positive and helpful to the cause, we have fought with our hands behind our backs for too long, now let us get on with making ecigs acceptable in the mainstream.
Thank you.

Health experts praise Intellicig Electronic Cigarette

A smoking alternative has been introduced to wean pre-op patients off the habit and induce a healthier lifestyle.

Patients undergoing surgery are being advised by healthcare specialists at Bristol’s Avon Obesity Service to use Intellicig electronic cigarettes in the run up to obesity related operations.

By running on a mix of just four ingredients ethyl maltol, glycerol, deionised water and nicotine, patients are being directed towards the healthier smoking alternative.

Intellicig contains no carbon monoxide, tobacco, tar or any of the other 4,800 chemicals found in a typical cigarette, making it safer and more pleasant for the smoker and everyone around them.

Praising the electronic device, Sharon Bates, Bariatric Nurse Specialist at Avon Obesity Service, said that the Intellicig has helped a number of her patients cut down their smoking intake.

Sharon said: “In a period before undergoing surgery, we advise patients to start a special preoperative diet in order to get their bodies ready for surgery, which normally involves reducing their calorie intake and abstinence from alcohol and smoking."

“We understand that this can be quite challenging if attempted in one go which is why we introduced the Intellicig – we want to combat weight loss first, then smoking,” said Sharon.

“Quitting isn’t easy at the best of times so what the Intellicig does is wean patients’ slowly off smoking and makes the diet more feasible and less daunting.”

Avon Obesity Service fully supports the National Campaign to get people more active and lead healthier lifestyles and they believe that replacing conventional cigarettes with Intellicig is a good start.

“This specially designed diet is not only important for patients before undergoing the operation for the purpose of reducing surgical risk, it is also important to ensure the patients have a healthier lifestyle after the surgery.”

Sharon added: “It’s early days but the response has been very positive; one patient who was smoking over 30 ‘conventional’ cigarettes a day now only smokes the Intellicig and a sample has been given to a chest physician who specialises in respiratory medicine.”

Intellicig can currently be purchased online direct at www.intellicig.com and at selected retail outlets.

ENDS

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Shining Wit -

There is no doubt in my mind that your thoughts on this are dead on. We do have more science and we do have more medical professionals coming out noting that the e-cig is in fact healthier than tobacco cigarettes. There is no reason we shouldn't be able to state the facts and market the product as such. This industry has provided more data in 2 years than the tobacco industry did in 40 years and their original data was due to force and pressure to do so.

That said, and I can only give a response from the US perspective: We are bound by certain regulations regarding health claims, promises, and smoking cessation. When it comes to making those claims, one thing is for certain, we would definitely fall into the NRT category and therefor would have to prove with at least 3 clinical trials per manufacturer, that the ecig does in fact work for smoking cessation.

Now, I certainly fall into the category that the present rules as set forth by the FDA regarding any product in comparison to tobacco cigarettes is ridiculous. The Gum for instance, cannot be sold in smoke shops next to the cigarettes. The labels on the smokeless tobacco products are lathered with "this product is not safer", "this can cause A, B, C, D, E, X, Y, and Z" while cigarettes simply have "This product may cause lung cancer or emphysema. Pregnant women should not smoke".

It is time to change these regulations and hopefully, we will see a much needed shift in philosophy by those who are creating the new regulations. We currently reside in a "quit or die" society where there is no room for products in the middle. Now, does that mean that the electronic cigarette industry has an excellent chance at helping to change this philosophy? Absolutely. This is the first product that has come to the market like this where the consumer base actually loves it.

As far as tobaccoharmreduction.org, they are an organization not made up of vested interest and are science based. They can say whatever they want. Make whatever assumptions they want. Consumers can do the same. They can scream left and right this will help you to quit smoking. Suppliers in the US can do the same, but they must follow the current protocol for NRT's and unfortunately, for even pharmaceutical, those protocols are unfair and a waste of time and money for everyone. Any product that can pass a simple test (like the one the FDA just did for us) as being better for the user than a tobacco cigarette should be allowed entry into the market. However, this is just not how it is. I do hope this changes and the only way to do this, is to fight from within the rules, which is what most of us are trying to do.

If the rules are different in the UK, then the suggestion for SJ might be to split up the forum suppliers into country category, however, even for those suppliers who ship from out of the US into the US, they would still have to adhere to the marketing rules currently in place.

It is apparent to me that while the negative publicity is definitely making a dent, it is also allowing other medical professionals to step back and say "Wait". Everyone freaked out when Lautenburg called for a ban of electronic cigarettes... but from that incident came three prominent health officials. From the next round of negative attention, came even more. And the next round, even more. And the smokers, they see through this. They hear a negative report, go to find more information because why not and still give it a try. Why? Because they know it is BS and that is our market anyways. People who have been smoking for years, told that they are dirty smokers and they should quit or die.

Which leads me to my next response which is: I am happy just being able to give smokers another option. Personally, I don't think the ecig works as a quit smoking device for everyone and I would certainly like to be able, as a smoker, to be offered alternatives and not have to THINK that I HAVE to quit. Why should I have to quit? Why is everything about quitting? There has actually been a Tobacco Cessation Clinic and another doctor who have come out recently noting that the ecig is not a good option for quitting smoking because it does not end the habits associated with smoking that in turn, keep you from using nicotine. If anything it persists the habit.

As I see it, if we as suppliers stay focused on playing within the rules, we will be given the opportunity to help set the rules. And rules will be set for the ecig. IMHO, by lashing out against the powers that be, it shows them that we are unwilling to communicate, sit down, help determine what is best and be a part of what is to come. They could easily make the rules without us and THAT is what needs to be avoided.

 

[Drewsworld]

Shining,
I applaud your post...I also enjoyed your analogies, however at this particular time I am having a hard time answering my PMs and emails, due to the rising poularity of these products...Therefore when I recieved the PM from the forum modereator , I simply complied with their request and continued working with my customers as best as I can...My father used to say "If it dont come out in the wash, it'll come out in the rinse" and "take care of the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves".... Im just trudging along thinking that if we do the next right thing that the negative oposition will fall and loose their passion, long before ours dwindles...Thanks again for your post...
Drew

 

[westcoast2]

Shining Wit noted

By all means we should have some guidelines for 'quit smoking' claims, but if the cleaner/healthier than cigarettes campaign is being supported by well qualified and well respected professionals

Is this where the market research suggests e-cigs should be positioned? Is the e-cig to become part of the anti-smoking/smoker denormalization campaign?

I agree with LaceyUnderall that people who smoke should be given choices. The PV can then be an alternative to smoking regulars (or pipes or snus or cigars etc) rather than the 'healthy' choice. Having said that, the 'quit or die' mob don't even concede they are 'healthier' at this time.

From the note:

“We understand that this can be quite challenging if attempted in one go which is why we introduced the Intellicig – we want to combat weight loss first, then smoking,” said Sharon.

Does that mean throw out your e-cig next?

PVs may have other attractions such as the ability to taylor vapour to personal preference and the ability to use it at times when other alternatives are not possible. (How well are unflavoured juices selling and flavourigs?)

From the science perspective, it is clearly wise to let people know it is safe and also safe for bystanders.

It seems in places where smoking bans have been put in place more people start to smoke. Why is that? Surly everyone knows the health impacts or perhaps they are starting to realise that the health impacts, expecially of SHS, have been grossly exagarated as part of an agenda?

By all means stop fighting with one hand behind your back, use the sicence to let people know they are safe, let people know they have advantages, let people know they have a certain amount of control and that PVs are a worthy alternative on thier own merits.
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[PlanetScribbles]

Personally, I don't think the ecig works as a quit smoking device for everyone and I would certainly like to be able, as a smoker, to be offered alternatives and not have to THINK that I HAVE to quit.

I fully agree with that, but the rub lies within the fact that NRT products have an absolute right to market themselves in that manner even though everyone knows that quit rates are far, far lower than with e-cigs
The hypocrasy is absolutely astounding, infinately astounding (not you, I mean the US authorities). It defies belief, in my eyes, that we have people that can figure out the speed of light but cannot use simple ABC logic.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Planet -

You are completely right. It is a shame that the NRT's have proven themselves not to be effective at quitting, yet can still be on the market making the claims that they do. Same as anti-smoking groups saying that you can become addicted to nicotine by standing next to someone using an ecig. Where's your proof for such claims? THAT should be illegal.

IMHO, this "addiction to nicotine" rampage that the anti-smoking campaigns have been on for all of these years is about to change... and I think the ecig is going to revolutionize what the general public feels is acceptable tactics towards demonizing people for a habit that they enjoy... especially when the drug they are "addicted" to is no worse than caffeine, which the last statistics I saw, it was something like 89% of American's are addicted to caffeine! Public Health Organizations are finally going to be asked, as we have all begun to ask: "How in the world can you not get behind science that states that burning tobacco is what causes lung cancer and not the nicotine?" "Why MUST a product be approved by the FDA if the current FDA approved products are failing so miserably?"

The smokeless products on the market have never been given a fair shake because of tobacco cigarettes which are clouding peoples judgement as to what is really acceptable. For so long, there really hasn't been an industry that is willing to stand up with the users and fight... basically saying "Hey, we accept that burning tobacco has issues for both the users and those around the user. However, now, there ARE products on the market that eliminate your worries of a habit on those who don't participate in the habit so please, let's look at this differently." And big tobacco, has never been in the position to make this point because well... they are big tobacco and frankly, their past history has proven that they aren't necessary on the level when it comes to the truth. Plus, they have a product in their line up that pisses people off.

What is happening now, IMHO, is tobacco harm reduction finally has a poster child product that smokers and even non-smokers who are logical or have loved ones who use tobacco, can truly get behind. Most of the medical professionals who are for the ecig have been anti-smoking advocates for a long time.

Kind of like in politics... the US desperately needs a strong, rational, third party to get the other two parties to start participating in rational thinking. What's best for the population as a whole... not just for one side or the other. This middle of the line thinking is going to make its emergence because in so many different levels of society, it is much needed.

Having said that, the 'quit or die' mob don't even concede they are 'healthier' at this time.

And they never will. They will never suggest that doing ANYTHING is healthier for you. They are too deeply funded by pharmaceuticals and too deeply into their cause to eradicate nicotine use. This has gone way past just attacking burning tobacco for them. These mobs are some of the strongest lobbyists for greater restrictions on labeling reduced harm products as more dangerous than tobacco cigarettes. If they could ban condoms, they probably would.

 

[RenaissancePuffer]

Some great points John.

I can't even count on all my fingers and toes multiplied by 10 or even 20 how many people here on ECF who were able to quit smoking completely on their first day of vaping. Albeit, it's hit or miss across the board with some people being able to quickly or rather slowly, then ween off of tobacco products completely. There seems to be evidence to support claims of smoking cessation.

A lot of it certainly lay upon the individual's ability to overcome the other withdrawl symptoms that come from smoking, along with the thousands of other chemicals that those of us who quit on "vape day 1" had to detox from. It wasn't easy for me, but I was one of hundreds of success stories that we hear about all the time here on ECF alone.

I think as our numbers grow, and popularity increases, it will be much harder to dispute the claims which certainly seem to be fact for many of us.

Positive light is what we need to educate people with, and false claims will only hurt us, but I think the facts are hard to dispute.

Just to share a story with you all.

I had attempted to quit during the spring of 2008. I decided "this time" to use the patch. I had woken up, hopped in the shower, and slapped the patch on my upper arm. Dressed up for work, and headed off. On my way into work, I had a panic attack that nearly made me turn around and go home out of sheer fear that I was going to lose my composure at my job, in front of thousands of people. Luckily, as I sat in my car, the nicotine started to enter my bloodstream, and I was able to calm down. That was the point where I turned back to cigarettes, because I simply didn't want to have to deal with that again.

With my PV, I am able to get my nicotine without having to wait, and now the control is back in my hands more than ever. When I am ready to ween myself down, I can and will.

It's an individuals choice, we are all free people. My personal opinion is that you can quit with an e-cigarette. Sun Vaporer is just one example of one of our very own here at ECF who has done so. If that's not smoking cessation, I don't know what is.