Tobacco question

[Leothwyn]

I know this sort of thing has come up here many times, and I have done plenty of searching and reading... but I've seen a lot of conflicting opinions. So, to further confuse myself, I'm looking for more opinions.

Of the different tobacco flavorings that I've tried the one that I like the most (by far) is the TPA tobacco Blend (TA and EM in PG). I've come up with some decent blends using that as a base, then adding Seedman, or very small amounts of other tobaccos (royal, 7 leaves, latakia), then adding some vanilla (or other sweet flavors).

So, what I'm wondering is: if I like the TPA Tob. Blend, can you think of any other basic tobaccos (not too fruity, perfumy, or spicy) that I might like?

Also, how is the TPA tobacco Extract? That one sounds promising, from what I've read. And, how about the new Black Honey Tobacco?

Thanks!

 

[AzPlumber]

I prefer the TPA tobacco extract over the TA, it does not have that TA grassy note. imo it is closer in flavor to my old analogs and I tend to use it more in my blends.

 

[Leothwyn]

Thanks! That sounds good. I went ahead and ordered some, along with the Black Honey Tobacco. I suspect the BHT will be an enhancer, if I do like it, rather than a base... but the extract sounds like it will be a good addition as a base ingredient.

I prefer the TPA tobacco extract over the TA, it does not have that TA grassy note. imo it is closer in flavor to my old analogs and I tend to use it more in my blends.

 

[Sweeney Todd]

Pardon me for piggybacking onto your thread, but I think my question's really close to yours.

In my case I'm trying to whip up a 'plain tobacco' flavor for a friend of a friend. It's not really where I've put attention before -- I was a clove smoker so it didn't come up -- so now I need to learn tobacco flavors in a hurry.

So I've tried as an experiment in 3ml, 5% FA RY4, 5% of a 10:1 Tobacco Absolute extraction, and 1 drop EM. I kinda dig it, it's a simple flavor but the vapor's really satisfying.

So my question is, what other flavors should I look into to "round out" this generic tobacco flavor? I know my RY4s, mostly, and I've heard of Seedman's Top Flavorings (but have no ideas which ones I should look at within that category). Or should I be trying other flavorings entirely to broaden my palate? I know TA + EM + RY4 is about as bare-bones as possible.

Thanks in advance, guys.

 

[Scubabatdan]

I have posted this I do not know how many times, but this is the same recipe I have been using since 2010:

TA (Tobacco Absolute), and EM (Ethyl Maltol) is a great base. It allows to to add pretty much any other flavor to it. This is my tobbaco base concoction. Unfortunatly the seedmans darkens it up alittle, but it is fairly clear at 10%.

You will need the following:

Perfumers Apprentice - Cotton Candy 2 x 1oz

TOB506 Commercial Cigarette Concentrate 4 x 1/2oz

Perfumers Apprentice - Tobacco Absolute (1. Pure) 1 x 2.5ml

Now, the cotton candy from perfumer apprentice is ethyl maltol suspended in PG @ 10%, warm the cotton candy and the 2.5ml of TA (tobacco absolute) in a sink of HOT water.

Get a 4oz bottle to add everything into, uncap the cotton candy and pour it all into the 4oz bottle, then uncap the TA, it will not be thick now as the hot bath has made it thinner. Use a pipette (note the TA will stain the pipette so use this pipette only for TA) and put .3ml of TA into the cotton candy (About 6 drops). Now cap the cotton candy and shake until it is mixed. Now add the seedmans concentrate to the cotton candy and shake until mixed.

The result is a approx 120ml of tobacco base that is very satisfying IMO @ 10%, and you can add hazelnut or peanut flavor to your mix to give it a nutty flavor. Add vanilla, black cherry, or caramel to give it those notes.
When adding menthol us it at 3% to the 7% tobacco base.
Well hope this helps.
Dan

 

[Rule62]

Personally, I like FA tobaccos. My current favorites, in order of preference are:
7 Leaves
Desert Ship
Latakia

I got this tip from someone else on here, don't remember who (sorry) but they are great at 2% with 2% TPA Cotton Candy. Nice, simple tobacco mix.
Any of the 3 also work well in RY4 recipes.

 

[Sweeney Todd]

Wow, that's extremely helpful stuff, thank you!

I'll report back with my attempts with diluted TA with EM, probably this weekend. Then hopefully again once I can get some of those flavors in.

 

[Lyndagayle]

Dan, I followed that recipe and it turned out to be very bitter. I contacted Linda at TPA and she told me I was using the wrong Cotton Candy. I bought the Circus Style like you posted but she said I should have gotten the other one to make your recipe. She sent me the regular Cotton Candy immediately and I haven't had any problems since I started using it. Thought you might want to correct it in your post so others don't make the same mistake I did.

Ta da! Mission accomplished!

 

[Scubabatdan]

Dan, I followed that recipe and it turned out to be very bitter. I contacted Linda at TPA and she told me I was using the wrong Cotton Candy. I bought the Circus Style like you posted but she said I should have gotten the other one to make your recipe. She sent me the regular Cotton Candy immediately and I haven't had any problems since I started using it. Thought you might want to correct it in your post so others don't make the same mistake I did.

Corrected, that was along time ago when she had but one cotton candy LOL
Please delete my quote or correct it so people do not get confused.
Thanks,
Dan

 

[Leothwyn]

Thanks for the recipe Dan. I've seen it around, and have tried mixing those three ingredients, but haven't tried your recipe yet. I'm going to give it a try (sort of), but I'm going to try a smaller version, with what I have. I have everything but the TA. Instead, I have the pre-diluted TA (in PG, with EM added).

I'm going to post my math here. That way, if a mess it up, maybe someone better at math will catch it. And, if it's right, maybe it'll be useful to someone wanting to try it in a small amount.

So, the original recipe is:
49% CC
49% Seedman
2% TA
(Based on 1 oz. being 30ml.. So it's not perfect, but close enough.)

If this ends up mixed at 10% in a batch, then I'll cut the numbers down to... (This is to make a batch of finished juice, instead of a flavoring recipe).
5% CC (rounded up)
5% Seedman
.2% TA

I'm using pre-diluted TA (Tobacco Blend PG), which is at 1% TA (if 20 drops = 1ml. [I know, that could be off]).
(TPA site says it's 2 drops of TA in 10 ml of liquid [or, in 200 drops of liquid]). So, if that's the case, then I come up with 20% Tobacco Blend, bringing it to:

5% CC
5% Seedman
20% TB

Also, the Tobacco Blend comes with 10% EM already in it. If I'm using that stuff at 20%, that means I already have 2% EM in my recipe. So the final version is:

Add to your preferred base of PG/VG/nic at:
3% CC
5% Seedman
20% TB

Does that seem right? 20% seems awfully high on the TB. Maybe that stuff is weaker than I've been thinking. Or, maybe my math skills suck.

 

[GrannyM]

Leothwyn,

First, slight problem with the math here:

So, the original recipe is:
49% CC
49% Seedman
2% TA

It should be:
49.9% CC
49.9% Seedman
0.2% TA [Your percentage point is off]

So adjusting for that I think you're close. BUT.....it does all come down to drop size.

Let's just leave the Seedmans out of the equation for now, as it is the cotton candy & TA which we need to work out.

Based on Dan's post above, he's adding 6 drops, or .3 ml TA. This would equate to 20 drops/ml. Adding 0.3 ml of TA to 60 ml of Cotton Candy equals 0.5% or 1 drop TA per 10 ml of Cotton Candy.

Now if Linda at TFA is using the same size dropper as Dan is, which equates to 20 drops/ml, & is using 2 drops per 10 ml, it would follow that TFA's Tob Blend is at 1% (as you calculated in your post) or twice as strong in TA as what Dan is using.

So, assuming their drop sizes are the same, you would have to add equal amounts of TFA's Cotton Candy & Tob. Blend (to dilute down from 1% to 0.5%) to achieve the same percentage that Dan shows for his combination of Cotton Candy and TA in this recipe.

Final result at 10% total flavoring would be:
2.5% Cotton Candy
5% Seedman
2.5% Tobacco Blend

Hope that makes sense!

 

[Scubabatdan]

Ok maybe this will clear things up, the TB (Tobacco blend) sold by TPA is my recipe and has EM in it so you do not need to add cotton candy. Just 50% TB and 100% Seedmans. Here is an excel spredsheet that shows the calculation off my original recipe.
My Original Recipe Excel 97-2003 compatable

Hope this helps.
Dan

 

[Leothwyn]

It should be:
49.9% CC
49.9% Seedman
0.2% TA [Your percentage point is off]

Thanks Granny. I hate to be difficult... but I looked again, and still come up with my original numbers.
60ml (2oz) CC + 60ml Seedman + 2.5ml TA = 122.5ml total
2.5ml = about 2% of that.
Oh well, I think my math skills can handle Dan's last post better. I'll try that.

Ok maybe this will clear things up, the TB (Tobacco blend) sold by TPA is my recipe and has EM in it so you do not need to add cotton candy. Just 50% TB and 100% Seedmans. Here is an excel spredsheet that shows the calculation off my original recipe.
My Original Recipe Excel 97-2003 compatable

Hope this helps.
Dan

Thanks Dan. I do have your spreadsheet - thanks for that.
I did take into account that the TB already has EM in it... it's just that it seems to have less than your big recipe (above).
Hopefully I'm not being too dense here. Just want to be clear... you're saying 1 part TB + 2 parts Seedman, then use at 10%?

As a juice recipe, it would be (rounded off numbers):
3.5% TB
6.5% Seedman

... which is pretty close to what Granny came up with (with the moved decimal point). So, I'll try something in that range (probably with a little extra EM... couldn't hurt; I do like EM).

 

[GrannyM]

Thanks Granny. I hate to be difficult... but I looked again, and still come up with my original numbers.
60ml (2oz) CC + 60ml Seedman + 2.5ml TA = 122.5ml total
2.5ml = about 2% of that.
Oh well, I think my math skills can handle Dan's last post better. I'll try that.





Thanks Dan. I do have your spreadsheet - thanks for that.
I did take into account that the TB already has EM in it... it's just that it seems to have less than your big recipe (above).
Hopefully I'm not being too dense here. Just want to be clear... you're saying 1 part TB + 2 parts Seedman, then use at 10%?

As a juice recipe, it would be (rounded off numbers):
3.5% TB
6.5% Seedman

... which is pretty close to what Granny came up with (with the moved decimal point). So, I'll try something in that range (probably with a little extra EM... couldn't hurt; I do like EM).

I could be wrong ... it's happened before, lol.... but I read it as heating up the entire 2.5 ml bottle of TA so that it's easier to work with, but only using 0.3 ml in the mix???? Anywho, Dan has clarified the matter so that you can use the appropriate amount of TB in place of the CC and TA.

 

[Leothwyn]

Oops. You're right Granny. I should've went back and read the instructions again. When I went to do the math later I just went off of the amounts listed in the beginning of the recipe.
Oh well, it's sorted out now. Thanks!

 

[Sweeney Todd]

Hi folks, quick tobacco Q.

My father-in-law is looking for a good flue-cured tobacco flavor. I did a quick search and couldn't see what flavors might approximate that. Fire cured, I have covered, the FW works pretty well mixed in with my TA base.

 

[Scubabatdan]

Hi folks, quick tobacco Q.

My father-in-law is looking for a good flue-cured tobacco flavor. I did a quick search and couldn't see what flavors might approximate that. Fire cured, I have covered, the FW works pretty well mixed in with my TA base.

Seedmans has fire cured tobacco flavor, use that vs the commercial cigarette in the recipe above.
Dan

Added:
Oooops you said flue cured, you have fire cure covered. Disregard, not sure if seedmans has flue cured.
Dan

 

[Leothwyn]

I just got some guaiacol from TPA, and was searching for posts on it. I did see someone mention using it to get a flue cured flavor. I haven't used the stuff yet, and don't know what flue cured is supposed to taste like... but, maybe it'll help. I don't remember the details of that post, but maybe try a search.

 

[AzPlumber]

Hey Leothwyn, take a look at Health Cabin. I'm sure they have a Flue Cured flavoring.

 

[Scubabatdan]

I just got some guaiacol from TPA, and was searching for posts on it. I did see someone mention using it to get a flue cured flavor. I haven't used the stuff yet, and don't know what flue cured is supposed to taste like... but, maybe it'll help. I don't remember the details of that post, but maybe try a search.

Hi I have been using Guainacol for years in a virginia, fire cured mix. Provides a very smokey flavor to the mix. Use sparinly
Dan