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I second that! madvapes was one of the first vendors (if not the first) to introduce the world to the Dual Coil Cartomizers. It seems only fitting that they include the TC Cartos in their current lineup.
Just use any 510 drip tip on them.
The triples are interesting. I bought a box elsewhere a couple of weeks ago. I've run them at 7.4v (way too hot), 6.0v (hotter than I like but very good). I've mostly run them on a 5.0v regulated mod I have that takes a pair of IMR 18350s. For me, that's the spot. The carto itself gets crazy hot after 4 or 5 drags at 5.0v, but a derlin drip tip keeps them from burning my lips.
I am mildly concerned about them due to another vendors repeated statements that he thinks they are a dangerous design pushing batteries way too hard and creating a situation where catastrophic battery failure is likely... I have batteries that still have plenty of room past 5.0v regulated, but though I know a few things, I don't claim to be an expert on the matter.
I am mildly concerned about them due to another vendors repeated statements that he thinks they are a dangerous design pushing batteries way too hard and creating a situation where catastrophic battery failure is likely... I have batteries that still have plenty of room past 5.0v regulated said:
I do question the motives on those statements because that guy touts his VV products as the only way to achieve the kind of power that leads to a very satisfying vape. But, I can also see the point that over discharge is dangerous. - After vaping some triples for a month, and testing how each set and each kind of battery I have acts with them, I think I'll trust my IMRs to do the job at least for 5.0v regulated. I also think I won't be stacking 18350s for 7.4 volts with them even using my AWs.
I'm looking forward to a couple more vendors carrying them... and I'm hoping madvapes will stock some.
I just bought a DCT MAP tank and I'll get another one when the stainless steel version becomes available. I plan to run the triple coils in that tank on my triple-v 5.0v regulated mod. I can certainly see a situation where I'll be willing to sell most of my CE2 MAP tanks to fund a stainless steel DCT MAP or two to run with triples on 5.0v. ... I'd never sell them all because I have a couple of juices that are best from a regular map tank, but I would be willing to cut my stock down to 2 or 3.
Sounds good! I couldn't see anyone's face exploding from a thin wire popping from excessive voltage....
It isn't the wire or coil in the carto that is the concern. It is the amp draw they pull at HV. Very few batteries can do it. And, even using batteries that can do it, there is still an over discharge risk. - That's why my conclusion was that I'll trust my AW IMR batts to drive the triple coils at 5.0v regulated, but I won't be running the triples at 7.4 under any circumstances with any battery any more. A 1.6 ohm triple coil requires 4.625 amps at 7.4 volts and we are actually talking about 5.25 amps with fresh off the charger batteries (4.2v each is 8.4 volts total).
EDIT: I realized i didn't explain that very well -- Overdischarge is a hazard because the batteries can flame out or even explode. Batteries can blow up in an overcharge situation on a charger, in a short situation (usually too much heat is generated and they fail), or in overdischarge when they are putting out their maximum discharge too much or too long (catastrophic battery failure during discharge might be just as common as overcharge in situations where the batts are being pushed to thier max all the time).
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I just fired up a triple coil at 6.4 volts.....no problems, but not much of a difference in performance...meh
I honestly don't understand the need of TC's... I might get a couple just to try, and to see how much faster they drain a battery, than a DC...
If you are using the lifep04 batts, they can only drain fast enough to feed 5.0 load volts to the triples. 3.1 or 3.2 amps is all they can achieve.
They don't drain batteries any faster than a dual coil because the ohms of resistance is the same (actually slightly higher), but they can handle more volts than the DCs.
Dual and triple coils are a neat idea but seem to be more of a marketing thing than an actual improvement. At this point I have tried four different variations of dual coils and very few even come close to working as well as the single coil cartomizers made by the same manufacturer. You can find many who will drink the Kool-aid here for the latest greatest things. When you get the things home that are supposed to be so great, they are often very disappointing. Single coils low resistance cartomizers work better than of the dual coil things I have tried.
I think it depends on your rig, your juice and what you want out of your vaping experience. I personally will never go back to single coil cartos...
The 1.5 ohm DCs are head and shoulders above all other cartos for a multitude of reasons not limited to but including their ability to handle voltages from 3.7 to over 6.0v plus anything in between and the near impossibility of burning them anywhere between 3.7v and 6.0v. Though I've found them to perform quite acceptably on 3.7v devices, I personally think they really begin to shine when you can put them on a device that can provide 4.3 + load volts. I like them between around 4.0 load volts and up to 5.0 load volts. I occasionally run them at 6.0v as well, but only with a couple of specific juices I have that can take that sort of heat.
We did invent dual coils as a test concept with Smok tech but before our first order was filled they were selling them to other vendors and that's how we ended up with the exclusive on the Ego dual coils in the US. Kind of a consolation prize 
The whole over-discharge rate on the batteries and the risk of explosion is a bit over the top with protected batteries. I can honestly say that I am not familiar with the posts that are being referenced though.
The first prototype dual coils we made were 1 ohm(dual 2 ohm coils). Even the with the bestest protected ultrafire or trustfire batteries on a roughstack, I could only rarely get one to work for more than a puff or two before the battery protection kicked in. The next rev we went to dual 3.2 ohm coils for 1.6 ohms and they worked perfectly with most typical 3.7 volt setups. With higher dual 3.2 ohm coils, the heat produced at each coil at higher voltages is actually reduced comapred to a single coil and the reason why dual coils tend to not burn at even 5 volts or higher.
The misconeption of triple coils is that they are magically demanding more current than a single coil would. The truth is, ohms law doesn't ask what the configuration of the resistance is. 1.5 ohms is 1.5 ohms is 1.5 ohms, no matter what.
Now functionality is a different picture. A single 1.5 ohm coil at 3.7 volts draws approximately 2.4 amps to create 8.8 watts of power and we can all agree, pretty good vapor.. If we assume that our batteries can safely provide 2.5 amps of power, we are within the safe range of that battery. If a battery can safely provide just 2 amps of draw, we are stressing the battery and it's a good demonstration of the need of using protected batteries so the protection circuit can kick in and stop the over-current condition, which stops the battery from overheating(main reason for failures).
When you look at a triple coil 1.5 ohm carto running at 3.7 volts, it will still draw the same current (2.4 amps) as a single coil, but won't be as effective at producing vapor because the current is split between the 3 coils. 3.7 volts * .8 amps per coil is a measly 2.96 watts per coil. A far cry from the heat produced at 8.8 watts for a single coil and the reason that a triple coils are lame at 3.7 volts. Total wattage is the same with a 1.5 ohm triple coil and a 1.5 ohm single coil but the heat is more concentrated with a single coil and it is more effectve at low voltages. Think of a string of lights bulbs. A single 60 watt bulb will produce more light than 3 20 watt bulbs.
What do we do to correct this? We apply more voltage
A 1.5 ohms single coil atomizer at 5 volts draws 3.33 amps and creates 15.4 watts of power which is typically too hot and usualy burns the coil out or burns the liquid. Hooking batteries in series only adds to the voltage, 3.7 + 3.7= 7.4 but the battery capacity or ability to supply additional amps does not change. The only way to increase current is to increase voltage or decrease resistance(assuming a source capable of supplying the required current). At 5 volts, we could be actually stressing the batteries more than at 3.7 volts but the power (watts) at each coil is increased and the effectiveness of the triple coils becomes more apparent as each coil now is getting 1.1 amps at 5 volts to produce 5.5 watts of power, hot enough to produce better vapor than at 3.7 volts per coil.
When we go up to 6 volts ,the batteries are stressed more but the coils produce more watts and are more effective and so on..
The truth of the whole thing is that with unprotected batteries on ANY device there is a danger of the battery overheating and 'venting' (yes, there are actual vents in most li-ion batteries) but there are also dangers of explosive venting and heat when an unprotected battery is shorted. A working protected battery will stop voltage and current from flowing if an over-discharge or a short is detected.
I know there have been battery incidents in the past but think of all the shorted atomizers, screwy shorted connectors and other things that people do with batteries. There would be batteries exploding everywhere if it weren't for properly working protection circuits.
Devices that are able to handle triple coils are merely increased voltage devices with batteries and regulators that are capable of providing sufficient current without overheating and shutting down.
ymmv
hoog
The whole over-discharge rate on the batteries and the risk of explosion is a bit over the top with protected batteries. I can honestly say that I am not familiar with the posts that are being referenced though.
The first prototype dual coils we made were 1 ohm(dual 2 ohm coils). Even the with the bestest protected ultrafire or trustfire batteries on a roughstack, I could only rarely get one to work for more than a puff or two before the battery protection kicked in. The next rev we went to dual 3.2 ohm coils for 1.6 ohms and they worked perfectly with most typical 3.7 volt setups. With higher dual 3.2 ohm coils, the heat produced at each coil at higher voltages is actually reduced comapred to a single coil and the reason why dual coils tend to not burn at even 5 volts or higher.
The misconeption of triple coils is that they are magically demanding more current than a single coil would. The truth is, ohms law doesn't ask what the configuration of the resistance is. 1.5 ohms is 1.5 ohms is 1.5 ohms, no matter what.
Now functionality is a different picture. A single 1.5 ohm coil at 3.7 volts draws approximately 2.4 amps to create 8.8 watts of power and we can all agree, pretty good vapor.. If we assume that our batteries can safely provide 2.5 amps of power, we are within the safe range of that battery. If a battery can safely provide just 2 amps of draw, we are stressing the battery and it's a good demonstration of the need of using protected batteries so the protection circuit can kick in and stop the over-current condition, which stops the battery from overheating(main reason for failures).
When you look at a triple coil 1.5 ohm carto running at 3.7 volts, it will still draw the same current (2.4 amps) as a single coil, but won't be as effective at producing vapor because the current is split between the 3 coils. 3.7 volts * .8 amps per coil is a measly 2.96 watts per coil. A far cry from the heat produced at 8.8 watts for a single coil and the reason that a triple coils are lame at 3.7 volts. Total wattage is the same with a 1.5 ohm triple coil and a 1.5 ohm single coil but the heat is more concentrated with a single coil and it is more effectve at low voltages. Think of a string of lights bulbs. A single 60 watt bulb will produce more light than 3 20 watt bulbs.
What do we do to correct this? We apply more voltage
A 1.5 ohms single coil atomizer at 5 volts draws 3.33 amps and creates 15.4 watts of power which is typically too hot and usualy burns the coil out or burns the liquid. Hooking batteries in series only adds to the voltage, 3.7 + 3.7= 7.4 but the battery capacity or ability to supply additional amps does not change. The only way to increase current is to increase voltage or decrease resistance(assuming a source capable of supplying the required current). At 5 volts, we could be actually stressing the batteries more than at 3.7 volts but the power (watts) at each coil is increased and the effectiveness of the triple coils becomes more apparent as each coil now is getting 1.1 amps at 5 volts to produce 5.5 watts of power, hot enough to produce better vapor than at 3.7 volts per coil.
When we go up to 6 volts ,the batteries are stressed more but the coils produce more watts and are more effective and so on..
The truth of the whole thing is that with unprotected batteries on ANY device there is a danger of the battery overheating and 'venting' (yes, there are actual vents in most li-ion batteries) but there are also dangers of explosive venting and heat when an unprotected battery is shorted. A working protected battery will stop voltage and current from flowing if an over-discharge or a short is detected.
I know there have been battery incidents in the past but think of all the shorted atomizers, screwy shorted connectors and other things that people do with batteries. There would be batteries exploding everywhere if it weren't for properly working protection circuits.
Devices that are able to handle triple coils are merely increased voltage devices with batteries and regulators that are capable of providing sufficient current without overheating and shutting down.
ymmv
hoog
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The posts I mentioned but didn't link to are in this thread and are buzzkills.
I think his point was pretty much what I was trying to say and what you explained thoroughly. The triple coils invite higher voltage which in turn means higher amperage. Pushing the max amps from stacked batteries all the time is probably worth the concern. But, then, to actually be able to produce the load volts and get to that sort of amperage, you have to have a battery that's capable of it in the first place. There aren't many.
One of the things that the expensive VV mods have done is to push people away from li-on and towards LiMn cells. --- Thus the repeated requests for you to carry the AW IMR batts. --- The IMRs have no protection circuit just like the ni-mh batts, but are capable of way more amperage output than either ni-mh or li-on. In fact, a shorted IMR 18650 can dump at the incredible rate of 20 C.
So, I'm just not sure what to think. There are only a couple of li-ons out there that can push a 1.6 ohm device at 6.0 or more load volts without either tripping the protection circuit or just plain hitting their limit (no shut down, but producing their max discharge at somewhat less volts than what would be expected). That leaves LiMn batteries and most of those (pretty much all but some of the BDL brand ones) can discharge plenty fast enough to drive a 1.6 ohm device at and above 6.0 load volts. That range runs from 3.75 to 5.25 amps. --- Knowing that the triple coils allow for breaking in to the 5 amp range while still being vapable (and actually quite a good vape for a few drags until they get too hot) is what makes me think that I should probably heed buzzkills warnings about that. --- But, then, like I said earlier in this thread: I know some things about this topic but I can't claim any expertise.
We did invent dual coils as a test concept with Smok tech but before our first order was filled they were selling them to other vendors and that's how we ended up with the exclusive on the Ego dual coils in the US. Kind of a consolation prize
I'd love to ask a question about the exclusive since I've seen them at a couple of other places, but now I think my speculation in another thread was probably accurate. It's nice that you have a good relationship with some of your competitors. And, it reassures me that I'm doing business with the right people besides you
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Totally agree six, that triple coils are definitely pushing the limits we have on batteries. Higher amp batteries are definitely a bonus and sometimes required, sometimes not. I'm happy with my 3.7 volt, dual coil roughstack setup
hoog
hoog
Yes six, I'm using the lifep04 batts. Duals perform much better than the triples. Triples seem to be too wet, in my opinion...
I just placed an order on some 5 ohm duals running at 2.5 ohms, I will keep you posted...
That's going to produce a cooler 'wetter" vape as well. But, the good news is that they should handle 7.4 volts like champs. My understanding of the 2.5 ohm DCs is that they stuck with the same alloy and just made the coils larger. That means more surface area for vapor production. At 6.0 to 7.4v, those should perform admirably (albeit cooler than the lower ohm DCs at the same voltage)
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