Use One Flavor To Beat Analogs?

[TrippH]

Why don't you train your brain to use the nicorette inhaler or gum?

Because you want to drag, inhale, and blow a visible something out. That also is an addiction. It apparantly doesn't reach to your sense of taste. Which is good for you.

The only point I want made is don't call it pall mall if it tastes like a moon pie.. Understand me yet?

 

[DocWyatt]

Why don't you train your brain to use the nicorette inhaler or gum?

Because you want to drag, inhale, and blow a visible something out. That also is an addiction. It apparantly doesn't reach to your sense of taste. Which is good for you.

The only point I want made is don't call it pall mall if it tastes like a moon pie.. Understand me yet?

Good question. Perhaps because there is little if any senses related to it. Do you really activate any senses that could "activate" your brain for association with the patch? Uh no. Zero.

Remember that you have 5 senses? Remember which is most powerful? Does the patch relate to them? We have a winning answer and that would be... No.

 

[TrippH]

Smell is most powerful and I never mentioned a patch

 

[SuziesMom]

I agree that there are Pavlovian forces at play- there are also behaviors, and habits that are linked with smoking. I always lit up when I got into the car, or picked up the phone, or or or.

Most smokers have habits, jobs, houses, kids, lives...that they probably enjoy sometimes. Smoking is wrapped up pretty tightly with those routines.

In order to get anyone to change the cost of continuing their current behavior has to be much greater than the pain of change. That's why most folks don't quit unless they have a darn good reason.

Things like ...... and crack are easier to quit because the lifestyles that go along with them aren't fun. Remove yourself from the situation- go somewhere you can't score crack and it makes quitting easier. There isn't really a bottom with cigarettes the way there is with crack. I still have all of my teeth, and have never needed to prostitute myself to get a nicotine fix.

That's why ecigs are getting to be popular- vaping is more fun, more interesting, cheaper, and less painful than smoking analogs. The idea of different flavors excited me for a hot second, but after smoking for 17 years, I can't taste anything anyway.

I've faced up to the fact that I'm an addict- I vape pretty much unflavored juice, and am fine with that. It's not cute, it's not fun, I'm getting my fix- plain and simple. I don't really want to devote any more time, money or energy finding the perfect cigarette substitute. I just want my nicotine.

It's a different delivery device, so there's some fine tuning to figure out a new routine, but I'm willing to figure it out- i.e. change because I enjoy vaping more than I like smoking. The flavor is neither here nor there for me. Yes, I'll probably always salivate when I smell a cigarette. Most long term smokers do. My sister still dreams of smoking, and she's been clean for 3 years.

So, once they get rid of their notion that cigarettes don't give them super powers (we all smoke when we're stressed, but a cigarette has never ever solved any of our problems, or made us feel any better), and get used to being able to breathe again- the switch is pretty easy.

Flavor is nearly incidental, but yes, something that tastes like a Marlboro- maybe with a little ammonia, and something that provides CO2 would probably win them over easier.

You want to get more people vaping? Make a category killer ecigarette- one that works, and is easy to understand. They're a significant investment, and choosing the right one isn't easy. Take away the harsh, dehydrating throat hit- and you'll get even more.

Right now it's the learning curve rather than the flavor that tends to be the detriment to conversion IMHO.

 

[DocWyatt]

LOL, and I agree that don't call a liquid pall mall if it tastes like moonpie... ha. Wasn't my point, although a very valid one. I don't want them to name Fillet Mignon that tastes like low grade hamburger either.

Regarding gum, etc, (I said patch, same thing) ...they address the addiction - not what triggers the desire via the senses.

My thread is not about the addiction to smoking - that is a wide variety of factors. It was more to do with why you want a certain flavor/taste. It is part of the addiction, and triggers it - but isn't really the addiction itself. The taste/smell is a trigger for the addiction - by association, but NOT the addiction.

EDIT: Sorry Tripp, I didn't see gum vs. patch and your reply. Friday night and a few beers tend to dull my awareness... I edited my reply. Gum and patches seem the same to me. They address the actual addiction - not the trigger.

 

[DocWyatt]

@Suziesmom, agreed, remove yourself. This is what I have never understood about AA. If an alcoholic and the answer is to hang around other alcoholics and/or drug addicts for a cure? This makes no sense to me on any level. In fact, I think this is a very bad idea. You do not repeat the negative (no alcholol) to be cured. You simply think of other things - not dwell on not drinking or not doing drugs. The entire premise of AA seems severely flawed to me.

The AA premise would be to have a devil worshiper trying to be a Christian hang around other devil worshipers for "support". That may sound extreme - but it is literally exactly the same. The entire concept of AA makes no sense. Here is a newsflash: If you are a devil worshiper and you want to be a Christian - stop hanging out with devil worshipers!!! LOL. I mean hellooo common sense.

 

[TJVapes]

Taste and smell may be the most powerful senses, but that doesn't make them the key to quitting analogs. They may be for some, but there is way more to it, and people seem to quickly realize they don't really need the taste of an analog. Evidently a lot of people can do it without the taste replication.....it just simply isn't there in the e-cigs, yet they are totally effective with a proper education. For me personally I just need something to do with my hands, a cloudy vapor, TH, and a good bit of nicotine. I've had about 5 drags from a real cigarette in the last 16 days and it was disgusting. I had to wash my mouth out with apple juice. However, it may be a solid method for an opposite person that truly enjoyed the taste and smell of analogs.. After 16 years of smoking, I was thoroughly disgusted with the smell and taste. I've tried for years and have never felt as positive about a method.

 

[DocWyatt]

I am a bit amazed by the opposition as everything I have said is a complete scientific fact regarding the power of brain association. Anyhow. regarding your point that people can do without the taste replication - some can. However, many cannot and exactly why people "chase" the liquid flavor that simulates the analog.

Many people insist that they want and need the taste of analogs because they "like it". Do they really? Possible, but very unlikely. It has nothing to do with why they want that taste.

 

[TJVapes]

It is a scientific fact that they are the most powerful senses but not a fact that they are the main triggers in smoking analogs, but I don't necessarily disagree. It's a sound theory for someone wanting to quit and not quite there to give it a try. I couldnt possibly stick to 1 flavor.... I am a flavor junky already.

 

[DocWyatt]

Agreed. I was just throwing this out there for people to think about why they "want" an analog flavor. They really don't. However their brain is yelling at them full force that they do - for a reason.

If you will notice, I put a question mark on the headline for a reason. To make people think and understand WHY they wanted the taste of an analog. More accurately why they think they want it.

 

[DocWyatt]

Speaking of addiction, my second EGO battery of the day just flashed no power. Using two EGO batteries in a day could be a sign of addiction - not sure... LOL.

 

[vivictus]

This is a pointless argument that no one can win. I think the taste of my fireball and cappuccino juice is by far superior to smoking a real Pall Mall. Yet, I smoked one tonight and it tasted terrible. However, though I realized this, I still craved it, but it was out of habit. I am used to taking a break to have a smoke every hour or so and walk outside to do so, and let my dog out at the same time. I never smoked inside! I prefer my PV so far by far, but the habit of taking a break to go outside and smoke is still there. I plan to break that habit over the weekend.

So, yes, the "taste" is terrible, and it is our brains and willpower that allow it, at the same time, you need to understand that it's easier for some and harder for others. So far, for me, it's at a middle ground. I haven't quit smoking, but I am also only at 2 analogs today (my first full day with my Riva!).

It sucks in a way too. I smoked my analogs today and they taste like ..... I am already getting used to the flavors of juice. I guess that's probably a good thing.

 

[DocWyatt]

First of all, it was not an argument of any kind, and certainly not pointless. It is a fact that your brain associates the taste and smell of tobacco to your desire to smoke. That is a scientific fact, not an argument or my opinion.

The only question is whether one flavor might retrain your brain better to not desire the tobacco flavor/smell as a "trigger" to smoking.

I believe that it is likely as the taste/smell is literally a trigger for your desire for nicotine - and why you think you like it.

Therefore, the premise of the idea is to replace the brain association for nicotine to something else...

However, I will admit that it is possible that the trigger could become the "act of vaping" itself. There is a certain taste, smell, act, etc. in vaping regardless of the liquid used. They are all similar in some respects.

This is a possibility. Again, my point was not to say to people to only choose one flavor. It was only to suggest to people why they actually desire the ever elusive taste of smoking - and to think about why they likely desire it.

 

[hairball]

TheBuss, I agree with you. It's all in how your brain has been trained. When I quit analogs and started vaping, I would not and still won't to this day, use any tobacco flavors. I'm too scared that I will want an analog. So far so good, I haven't resorted back to analogs. I quit analogs on 8/19/2010 and tried a drag 3 days later. Hacking my guts out is an understatement. I knew then that I would never go back. I made myself believe that I hated tobacco in every form. Just a way that I untrained my stubborn brain.

 

[DocWyatt]

I wouldn't be scared of it on any level. You understand that you don't like the taste of analogs. You are way ahead of the game. However, many still honestly believe they love the taste of them. I believe the truth is they do not. Their brain is simply yelling at them that they do. I think I am one of those people, to be honest.

I mentally think I want to taste one. My brain tells me it is great. But when I puff one, the taste sucks, basically. The only reason my brain says they taste good is association to the nico high.

 

[DocWyatt]

Cool Nuck, you have your brain retrained. Me, not so much yet. Working on it...

My original point was ... hmm... if i only puffed "peach"... my brain would clearly relate peach to nicotine...and that would mean vape peach - not smoke.

But I have made that point and being rather redundant. But it seems very self evident to me.

 

[TrippH]

Yeah, i had a few drinks last night and had a hard time saying what I meant to, lol. Buss, you are absolutely right about needing to retrain your brain. There are a lot of differences in vaping and smoking. I just feel when beginning if you could make vaping as close as possible.. It would be easier! I'm past looking for an analog flavor. It's not out there! But, if I had it I honestly believe it would help me associate more satisfaction with vaping, particuarly in the beginning. It would help many others as well. At least 4-5 times a week I see someone starting a thread looking for a cig brand flavor. After they get used to it most do branch out. Heck I have watermelon, toffee, cinnamon, even peanut butter cup, lol..oh, and a fantastic peach if you like peach. I'm just ramblin now.. Someone is gonna get close though.. And make a LOT of money when they do!!

 

[irefine]

For me it was less about the taste and more about the strength. When I ordered my first kit, I chose 11mg and still needed to smoke. Then I ordered some 24mg and smoked that in the morning and switched to 11mg through the day and that got me off the analogs. Now I tell my friends to start with the 24mg and work their way down.

 

[Kevin Freeheart]

Self-reflection is always good when trying to change a habit.

I never really thought about it, but some one asked on another thread today "Why did I smoke one brand of cigarettes and vape different flavors?"

I realized that I DIDN'T generally smoke one brand of cigarettes. In fact, I didn't always smoke cigarettes for my nicotine buzz. Sometimes I'd smoke flavored cigars or switch to menthols. Sometimes I'd have three "active" packs of smokes.

Sticking with one vape as a newbie might have hindered my desire to replace smoking. And that's something I didn't even consider until I'd already made the switch. But it's good to know you and your habits. It makes changing them easier.

So while I don't disagree with the premise (it's simply conditioned response), I think the assumption that people ONLY smoke one flavor AND that people disliked the flavor to begin with may be wrong. It's probably the most common case, but shouldn't be taken as a hard and fast rule.

 

[Kizmara]

It took me almost a year of vaping and smoking to retrain my brain and accept vaping full time.
During that time I found and worked on my triggers and learned to cope for longer periods of time with out cigarettes.
One day I just decided to vape all day instead of smoke my few cigarettes.

That was over 30 days ago.

Addiction has many factors, smell assocation is merely one of them.