One of my pet peeves is the cloud chasing. One thing for sure it chases away smokers looking to get started.
Vape shops suck.
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You'll hear the phrase 'it's the Wild West' a lot in reference to the vaping industry. What you are describing is why people say that.
There is a super low bar to entry into this business. Just looking at retail prices, I assume you could start a store like the ones I've seen for under $10K. You could finance that from a credit card, which is what I think at least one shop in my area has done.
Right now around me I have 3 types of shops.
1) Run by tatted/ear hole size of my fist former punks, doing it as social club. I had one place shut off the lights and lock the door as I walked toward it, two hours before closing time. They thought I was someone else and decided to play a prank on them.
2) Sideline business. The establishment makes it's money in other places, tattoos, piercings, skate shops and sells vaping equipment on the side.
3) ..... run shops. Young guys with spray tans and slick hair that would be selling fake Rolexs if vaping wasn't around.
The good news is that this is growing market, real business people are going to start investing in it soon and the customer experience is going to skyrocket.
There is a super low bar to entry into this business. Just looking at retail prices, I assume you could start a store like the ones I've seen for under $10K. You could finance that from a credit card, which is what I think at least one shop in my area has done.
Right now around me I have 3 types of shops.
1) Run by tatted/ear hole size of my fist former punks, doing it as social club. I had one place shut off the lights and lock the door as I walked toward it, two hours before closing time. They thought I was someone else and decided to play a prank on them.
2) Sideline business. The establishment makes it's money in other places, tattoos, piercings, skate shops and sells vaping equipment on the side.
3) ..... run shops. Young guys with spray tans and slick hair that would be selling fake Rolexs if vaping wasn't around.
The good news is that this is growing market, real business people are going to start investing in it soon and the customer experience is going to skyrocket.
I, too, wasn't much impressed with my 1st vaping stores... and for 2 yrs have bought online things I needed, and paid the shipping gladly, because they were SO HELPFUL to me in making decisions, etc. some have good customer service and some don't. Tis life! Most have higher prices too than online businesses, I found. At 70 yrs old, I tend to want to help folks I run into, giving them a bit of advise about what I found in my visit... IF they want to help folks and not turn them off in their search! some are grateful, some I never hear from again...
I can tell you though, that your attitude will be picked up upon, and you'll receive right back what you're dishing out... so may I suggest you tone it down a bit, be a little more patient? We don't know what each individual has gone through that day in prep to deal with us next... give them a bit of slack and it'll pay off tremendously!
So, tis just another of my "trying to be helpful" hints to those coming up behind me in life - and your turn to listen and learn or not... no biggy on my part.
Vaping is new to the world and there are those who want to make money from this new trend and there are vapers who seriously want to help smokers get off the cancer sticks, as well as earn a living doing it. The good guys are like jewels to be sought after... I wish you well on your own search for good vendors. We have a lot of them right here on ECF!! They are no more 'perfect' than we are in our own lives, tho, so be kind, k? and you'll reap kindness.
I don't think they're out to gouge people, I just think they have a much higher overhead than places like Amazon.
At home, you already are paying your mortgage/rent, so it's not really additional. Maybe some shelves to keep our product and the electricity to run the computer.
At a brick and mortar store, you first need to pay rent. This can be up to $2000/month. Keep in mind, location is everything when it comes to retail, so it has to be in a well traffic'ed area, and those rent for a lot. Then you have to pay for employees. Unless you plan on it being a one man operation, each employee has to be paid. Let's assume they only make $10/hour, that's an additional $400/week per employee. Electricity and utilities I would only guess at $300/month for lowballing, and the property manager is in charge of repairs, so that's one good thing. In the end, you're looking at $3000-$4000 just to keep it up and running per month for a small shop. Add in the fact that the owner has to pay his OWN bills for his house, you need to have quite the sales to stay in business.
Considering the Ecig market already has firm roots on the internet, chances are your retail store won't get a high amount of sales. So, you have to have an unusually high markup just to make your break even point. If you already have strong internet sales going into the business, then that will help you somewhat, but your markup will still be high. markup prices for other items are usually +%30/+%40 per item. That is typical retail. lower volume of sales means your percentage might be higher. let's say you can get a kangertech mini for $28 wholesale. Add the %40, and you get around $39. Since the Ecig industry is low sales, the markup might even be higher. So, when you go into a store, and see a $45.99 subtank mini, and you say "hey, I can get this for $29.99 online"... you're not being gouged, you're paying for the option to look at the product physically in an air conditioned space by (hopefully) knowlegable salespeople.
Yeah most vape shops I've been in seem kinda meh. The best one by me shut down due to personal issues between the owner and his wife (they were amidst a divorce and the court ordered them to sell the business and split up profits -- get a prenup, people!) The owner was older (in his 40's) and he was a really nice guy who introduced me to mech mods in a very informative/safe way. He spent a long time going over battery safety, the do's and dont's of building your own coils, etc... He was both amicable and knowledgeable. It was nice hanging out with him, discussing the latest devices, etc., because he kept up-to-date with technology and created a very friendly, relaxed atmosphere.
Now that it's closed the only other 2 in my area are sort of overrun with 18-25 year olds. I rarely see any older folks hanging out in there, likely because the atmosphere is sort of noxious. The customer service isn't bad by any means, just.. In terms of running a professional business, I think it's necessary to exude a certain standard of, "This isn't just your bro, it's a customer." They don't allow vaping in the shop itself (town ordinance) but I'm kind of glad they don't. When vaping was allowed in the shop it'd be filled with creamy/custard vapor, as most of the local vapers seem to endorse "The General" line of custard juices. I think they smell like rotting milk. Either way, to keep a long post short, I try to stay out of the vape shop just because the atmosphere is too "hip" for me (in the worst sense of the word).
I usually only visit the vape shop if I know they have something that I'd otherwise be waiting online for/the price is competitive.
Edit:
I should also mention, most vape shops I've been to seem to recommend a mech mod to beginners with minimal explanation. The vape shop that closed down essentially gave me a half-hour/hour lecture before even putting the mod in my hands, and it was appreciated both at the time and now.
Now that it's closed the only other 2 in my area are sort of overrun with 18-25 year olds. I rarely see any older folks hanging out in there, likely because the atmosphere is sort of noxious. The customer service isn't bad by any means, just.. In terms of running a professional business, I think it's necessary to exude a certain standard of, "This isn't just your bro, it's a customer." They don't allow vaping in the shop itself (town ordinance) but I'm kind of glad they don't. When vaping was allowed in the shop it'd be filled with creamy/custard vapor, as most of the local vapers seem to endorse "The General" line of custard juices. I think they smell like rotting milk. Either way, to keep a long post short, I try to stay out of the vape shop just because the atmosphere is too "hip" for me (in the worst sense of the word).
I usually only visit the vape shop if I know they have something that I'd otherwise be waiting online for/the price is competitive.
Edit:
I should also mention, most vape shops I've been to seem to recommend a mech mod to beginners with minimal explanation. The vape shop that closed down essentially gave me a half-hour/hour lecture before even putting the mod in my hands, and it was appreciated both at the time and now.
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A retail store has significant overhead that has to be recouped through the pricing, that's a given. Where they justify their existence is in convenience (want it buy it, no waiting for vapemail), and customer service. Believe it or not there are still people in the western world who are still not comfortable getting info and advice from the Interwebs. If the shop doesn't offer well-informed advice, and first class service, then they have nothing to offer other than a cool place to hang out.
If there was a B&M that had reasonable (marked up) prices, really good coffee, a comfortable place to sit talk and vape, and friendly helpful staff, I would go there. I haven't found one that fits that description yet.
If there was a B&M that had reasonable (marked up) prices, really good coffee, a comfortable place to sit talk and vape, and friendly helpful staff, I would go there. I haven't found one that fits that description yet.
I agree with your post, but you are a bit off on some of your numbers.
$2000/month isn't an up to, it's pretty standard rate for a small space in a good location. That's what I pay for my bookstore, in a rundown but ok mall in a rust belt city. If I wanted to open a location in NYC, it could be 10-15 times that for the same space.
Then you have to add in your break points. Once they sell $X,000(what ever the break point is) per month anything over that the property manager gets 5-20% of the gross sales. Now this is gross not net. 20% of gross eats up 40% of the money made from the sale. (I buy something for $50 and I sell it for $100, up until my break point I make $50 which goes mainly to the aforementioned expenses. After my break point my property manager gets $20(20% of $100) and I get $30. The better month I have the less I make per item.
Commercial utilities are 3-5 times what you pay for residential. Electricity for my 2,000sq ft bookstore runs about $5-600 a month. Internet is about $300. Water $200. Garbage disposal $250. Insurance $400. Replacing things customers/staff break $100-300.
Employee costs aren't a straight wage times hour calculation. You have to include workers comp payments and employer share to their FICA. $10/hr roughly works out to $11.50/hr in costs to me.
Im kinda thinking that a vape bar, kinda built around the hookah style bars would be ideal for our town. Its a college town and if it was done correctly It would go over really well. The vape shop would need to be separated as so other people could go in and get help with what they need. If it was like a coffee shop with vaping allowed and a vape shop that would be awsome. I could call it star chucks. Lmao I would totaly spend more money on an item if the people selling it were worth dealing with.
I was looking at property places around where I live, where the rent is much lower than it is up north. As far as the utilities and pay, I don't run a business, but just doing some calculations in my head. Yes, I thought about opening up a vape shop, but then doing some very rough calculations, I didn't have the startup costs, and I don't think the sales would match what it would take to stay in business. I know there are other fees involved.. returns, internet/cable/water shipping/insurance/theft/etc I look at vape shops, and I look at what the owners drive.. none of them are in any sort of luxury car. That is why I never complain about their prices, but I do compare to other retail locations.
That is why I look at the shops that are open, and every one of them has a strong internet presence. the ones that don't have substandard parts (I am guessing clones and the like) to make up. They're all in low rent areas. I always try to buy something from local shops, but unfortunately, my budget doesn't allow for it. I try to buy ejuice locally, but they're either too expensive, or taste bad. :/
That sounds like a great idea. The only caveat, is that many city ordinances are not allowing vaping in an eating establishment. I agree though, it would be a great place.
I'm not surprised at your experience with the B&M's, I've had similar experiences here in SW Florida. I've learned not to wander into a B&M here with a mech and genesis RBA on it, and also not to tell them I make my own juice. At that point they don't need me for anything and pretty much freeze me out. The last store I went into regards all mechanical mods as "dripper mods". There's not a genny in the store, and they didn't even know what it was. Well the owner did, but none of his cute young female staff did.
There's one store here in Cape Coral I would recommend, Vapin in the Cape. Very knowledgeable owner and staff, they actually sell kanthal, but again, there's no genny support, and only one genny in the store, a Z Atty Pro, and they don't have mesh either. Seems all the B&M's are all dripper oriented anymore, and if gennies are your thing you are pretty much on your own and made to feel like a dinosaur or some kind of odd duck outsider. I wish it were otherwise. It would be so great to find a store that's into gennies.
There's one store here in Cape Coral I would recommend, Vapin in the Cape. Very knowledgeable owner and staff, they actually sell kanthal, but again, there's no genny support, and only one genny in the store, a Z Atty Pro, and they don't have mesh either. Seems all the B&M's are all dripper oriented anymore, and if gennies are your thing you are pretty much on your own and made to feel like a dinosaur or some kind of odd duck outsider. I wish it were otherwise. It would be so great to find a store that's into gennies.
I live in Houston what shop did you go to? I would like to check it out. My friends took me to a place to get my setup (the only place they ever go) IPV mini 2 and Sense Herakles tank $150 that cost me twice as much as I would've paid on the internet. They also sold me a fully charged battery "they just bought and never used" that lasted a week and quit taking charges. USB charger that came with my IPV broke quickly too. But I needed to learn, at least. Needless to say, I won't be going back there. I also found a groupon for a place near Bellaire and Wilcrest that was pretty cool. I went to a ecig wholesaler on Harwin that didn't have any juice in my Nic level but got an Innokin IClear x1 tank for $10.
Lol...Tiki Vapors in Katy, my home away from home!! On Mason and Kingsland, just a few minutes south of 10. Its kind of tucked in on the end of a little strip shop. Not all cloudy, EXCELLENT service, and I get treated like a queen when I go in. If you go, ask for Mati or John....I haven't met Nathan yet! They have 99 flavors in 0, 12, and 24, but you can also order custom from website. Tell them Mary Jo (chai tea addict) sent you....lmaooooo...
Click on someone's...you can make yours! Sometimes t takes a while for them to update, and I also have an app on my phone called "smoke free" where I can keep totals of time, cigarettes not smoked, and money saved. The nice thing is, I can figure in what I spend on vaping and deduct it from my total saved, so ts more accurate. Some f the banners only count what wasn't spent on cigarettes, but I like that I can deduct vaping and get a better picture.
If that's the case, poor service, no inventory and no knowledge about vaping? Sound like the perfect opportunity to open up a shop that has all the above while the irons hot. The only drawback is that black cloud of regulations looming that threatens the whole vaping community. My wife & myself are dying to open a shop in our area but don't want to go squirt out 20-30 G's only to be shut down a year later seeing we live in NY as I've made a name in the small local market. Instead Im choosing a different approach, catering to a customers via word of mouth like the Avon lady. Pass my card and free nicotineless teasers with my flavors list....even deliver if the sale is large enough, maybe throw vape parties with a stockpile with me. Keep it on the DL if you will, as to avoid "THE MAN"
My mentor gave me wonderful advice that I totally disregarded, but they were spot on.
Figure out how much you'll need to open your business. Do all of your due diligence, call utilities, call vendors, triple check your opening inventory calculations. Do you have that number? Ok, now triple it. That's how much you'll need to start.
I ended up starting a business that was under-funded and went through the first 6 mos at light speed getting caught up. That said, I haven't worked a day since the business opened. I go in and do what I love. Feels more like a hobby or entertainment more than anything else. Unless you count employee issues...ugh.
So if you're interested in making a go at something, go ahead and do it. Don't do it for the lure of money, do it because you love doing it.
If you don't have the immediate capital to open a full time retail shop, start small, find a swap meet or a stall in a open air market. I wouldn't recommend doing internet sales, it's a cut-throat pirate island out there. Do what you love and you'll never work another day in your life. Just don't expect to get rich.
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