Vaping and oxygen tank use *NEED HELP ASAP*

[0smitty]

Hey all;

OK, so here's the skinny: I got my mom into vaping about two weeks ago, and just last weekend she was hospitalized for multiple blood clots in the lungs (pulmonary embolism)...She'd been retaining water in her legs for a couple weeks really bad, and it looks like the clots that were causing that finally broke loose and traveled all the way into her lungs before taking a rest.

Anyhow, my mom's out of the hospital now, almost back to 100%...But she's having nic cravings and she wants to know if it's safe to use her PV even though she's on an O2 tank (you know, the thing with the little nasal tube thingie and oxygen canister). Her biggest concern is whether or not the heat generated by the atomizer of her 510 will cause the O2 to 'splode, or anything hazardous of that nature.

If there are any of you that are knowledgeable of this sort of thing, healthcare professionals, etc...I'm really needing to know this one ASAP. Thanks a bunch, and happy vaping!!!

 

[telsie]

Hopefully someone with absolute knowledge on the subject will reply, but I don't see how an electronic cigarette could cause an ignition. If you puff a lot on it, the atomizer could momentarily get very hot to the touch, but there's certainly no worry about flames or embers or sparks. When the mouth piece is in place, the heat coils themselves are fully enclosed inside the unit.

 

[5cardstud]

Well if the atty was to become dry it could glow red. Also if you had a short it could also happen. I would play it safe and remove the oxygen, turn it off, ventelate and vape a little then back on. My late S.O. used to smoke with hers on her head though.

 

[Quick1]

Ummm, hello? you're firing an electronic device. The switches are not sealed, the battery compartments are not sealed, the battery contacts are exposed in the battery compartment (think about dropping the thing). I can see all kinds of possibilities of an exposed spark. These things are not sealed at all. In fact, most are intentionally vented.

Having said all that... Call your durable medical equipment provider. They will be able to give you a definitive answer.

 

[msqun]

There should truly be no difference in using this than a cell phone, or EVEN a stove, electric especially. I was vaping in the hospital...no probs at all...plenty of oxygen valves and such around. The potential for ignition is SOOOO slim I'd think it would be completely safe. As 5card said about someone smoking with O2 in use....I don't agree with THAT, but certainly MANY do it EVERYDAY....Go to any casino, even the ones where smoking is still allowed and at any given time you will see someone with O2 sitting right next to a smoker. As Quick mentioned though, it would certainly be a good idea to at least check with the equipment provider....though unfortunately they will probably not be knowledgeable enough to answer the question with any certainty which will then in turn lead to advising against it. Most likely, just because they aren't sure and if in doubt (with medical providers and many others) don't do it. Hope you find the answers SHE NEEDS and soon! If she doesn't feel comfortable, perhaps to keep the nic cravings down she'd possibly consider snus or even the patch for that, just for the time being.

 

[Quick1]

No. The durable medical equipment provider WILL be knowledgeable. They have to handle it all the time and they're going to be certified as well as having therapists/techs for patient instruction in the use of the equipment.

[doh... international forum, at least that's the way it is over here]

 

[Windsage]

In the presence of pure oxygen solid steel will burn if you have heat or a spark. PG and VG can both burn in this environment. The PV would be far safer than a lighter and cig, but I would not keep it near an oxygen source. As said above, shut it off, vent and vape. Also keep the PV and chargers and stuff away from the O2.

 

[Drozd]

oxygen gas itself does not have a flash point it is not a flamable gas., just an oxydizer and will assist in the burning of other materials and gasses (that's why oxygen gets a yellow oxydizer placard instead of a red flamable placard)..it does support combustion though...and liquid oxygen is very reactive...

but an oxygen tank itself wouldn't blow from vaping...at worst the oxygen stream directed directly into an atty might get the coil to burn hotter....that's about all..

if an oxy tank blows it's due to the whole bottle being overheated and causing the pressure inside the bottle to exceed what the bottle is rated for and explode...but that's usually only if the emergency pressure relief valve doesn't blow

I've worked with Oxygen bottles daily for years....first as a hydrostatic tester (the guy who tests and recertifies the cylinders themselves).....and in my current trade as an ironworker using oxy-acetelene torches....it's the acetelene gas that's flamable not the oxy...torch won't light or will go out without the acetelene....the oxy is an oxydizing gas not flamable itself

here look at the oxy label...all it says is high pressure oxydizing gas. Vigerously accelerates combustion....cylinder temperature should not exceed 52 degrees C (125 F)... (our atty coils are about 60 degrees C....so it'd take alot to even do any damage to the cylinder with an atty)

in other words she should be totally fine

oh and by the way..I know that's a welding bottle...but now in the US all oxygen bottles are filled with USP grade oxy...it's easier than maintaining seperate facilities for medical grade and industrial grade...the medical grade just goes through a more intense inspection of the cylinder and also gets filled, evacuated and then filled again to ensure that any contaminants or moisture that may have made it into the bottle are blown out....
and steel burns in the pressence of pure oxygen because the ignition point of steel drops win the pressence of pure oxy at high pressure (the medical bottles don't put out high pressure)....the warnings of smoking around heavy oxy use in a hospital is because an oxy enriched atmosphere will lower the flash point of other flamable and non flamable substances in the area (IE stuff that normally wouldn't burn will combust in an oxy heavy enviroment) ...her, her home, car, and PV aren't likely to be in any danger of this at all

 

[Windsage]

I agree with 90% of the above. There is no way with a medical system you could get enough oxygen into a room to actually raise the overall oxygen content. This is why you can still have light bulbs and such.

My only concern is that the PV when used will be very near the outlet of the hoses. While there i no way you would hurt the oxygen system, you could actually catch an atomizer on fire.

Here is the info for PG:

Flash point: 99C (210F) CC
Boiling point 188.2 °C
Autoignition temperature: 371C (700F)
Flammable limits in air % by volume:
lel: 2.6; uel: 12.5
Material can support combustion.

You can't get above the lower limit i an entire room, but given the heater coil in the atomizer, the abundance of PG in contact with the heater, and the fact that pv operates above the flash point of the material, I don't think the O2 should be running right next to the pv. It's not a big deal to turn off the O2 while the pv is on.

The worst thing that could really happen is probably burned lips, but who needs that

 

[Drozd]

I agree with 90% of the above. There is no way with a medical system you could get enough oxygen into a room to actually raise the overall oxygen content. This is why you can still have light bulbs and such.

My only concern is that the PV when used will be very near the outlet of the hoses. While there i no way you would hurt the oxygen system, you could actually catch an atomizer on fire.

Here is the info for PG:

Flash point: 99C (210F) CC
Boiling point 188.2 °C
Autoignition temperature: 371C (700F)
Flammable limits in air % by volume:
lel: 2.6; uel: 12.5
Material can support combustion.

You can't get above the lower limit i an entire room, but given the heater coil in the atomizer, the abundance of PG in contact with the heater, and the fact that pv operates above the flash point of the material, I don't think the O2 should be running right next to the pv. It's not a big deal to turn off the O2 while the pv is on.

The worst thing that could really happen is probably burned lips, but who needs that

but the pv doesn't opperate above the flash point of PG...if the flash point of PG is 99C....and the boiling point is 188C....and the autoignition point is 371C......and the PV operates at between 40-65C (the only good thing to really come from the FDA testing)....I don't see enough oxy getting into the PV to lower the flash point of the PG nearly enough....

So I still maintain my original conclusion that it's fine...and I back that up via experience of myself vaping while using a cutting torch...which pushes way more oxy into the surrounding atmosphere than a respiritory oxygen system.

 

[Windsage]

I don't see it happening either, but had taken the extra safe route. I had also assumed the heating element operated above the 188 boiling point. Is the FDA data the actual temp inside the cart or the vapor temp leaving the cart? If its the temp inside, then we aren't really vaping, since that wouldn't vaporize anything. Interesting data.

 

[Drozd]

I don't see it happening either, but had taken the extra safe route. I had also assumed the heating element operated above the 188 boiling point. Is the FDA data the actual temp inside the cart or the vapor temp leaving the cart? If its the temp inside, then we aren't really vaping, since that wouldn't vaporize anything. Interesting data.

the data is actually from their final report where they tested the SE and njoy products...and while I find their report lacking in some aspects the science on that part seemed sound..to answer the question it seems to be the temp inside the atty itself...I don't think we need to reach or exceed the boiling point of PG to create vapor...only heat it sufficiently (kinda like the smoldering we see before something actually burns (for lack of a better analogy))....if anything with additional oxy the worst I can see in this case would be to see the coil burn hotter much like vaping at a higher voltage (higher wattage)...

The temperature of the heating element in each e-cigarette was determined by inserting a thermocouple and then activating the e-cigarette by drawing air through it. These temperatures ranged from 40 to 65°C. HSGC-MS analysis was conducted at 60°C to simulate the temperature that would be encountered during activation of an e-cigarette.

from http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/ScienceResearch/UCM173250.pdf page 2, last paragraph on the page...

 

[0smitty]

You guys are awesome...Mom is at peace with her nicotine needs! Thanks a bunch!!

 

[JollyRogers]

The lady that introduced me to the electronic cigarette was in the Atlanta airport smoking area/room with her oxygen bottle and her 801 pen style. She didn't seem to concerned and told me her doctor was thrilled with it.

The above discussion was better then I could have even begun to speak to. If you read up on medicinal oxygen bottles and fire, they are usually started by the oxygen saturating a chair or clothing, the user is smoking and a hot ash drops on their clothing or furniture, starting the fire. The material burning had a lowered flash point and hence the "fire ......ing" was not effective BECAUSE the user left the oxygen on laying next to them or on them. My only concern would be from a battery failure, and so I would probably still recommend shutting the oxygen tank off, vape, then back on. Problem is, most get complacent with this. BTW, some insurance co. will not pay for oxygen therapy if the user is caught smoking.

 

[Drozd]

You guys are awesome...Mom is at peace with her nicotine needs! Thanks a bunch!!

glad to hear that it gave her some peace of mind..

 

[Drozd]

The above discussion was better then I could have even begun to speak to. If you read up on medicinal oxygen bottles and fire, they are usually started by the oxygen saturating a chair or clothing, the user is smoking and a hot ash drops on their clothing or furniture, starting the fire. The material burning had a lowered flash point and hence the "fire ......ing" was not effective BECAUSE the user left the oxygen on laying next to them or on them. My only concern would be from a battery failure, and so I would probably still recommend shutting the oxygen tank off, vape, then back on. Problem is, most get complacent with this. BTW, some insurance co. will not pay for oxygen therapy if the user is caught smoking.

I can see this concern somewhat...but looking at the overall picture, I see the battery failure concern more as a concern with using mods or HV vaping...which I'm in serious doubt that the OPs mother is doing...sure the stock 510 batteries are capable of failing in such a way....but it isnt very likely that it'd happen...

 

[bassnut]

If you've ever tried the "burn clean" method on an atty you will have noticed that the metal coil glows red hot.
I don't know what metal the coil is made from but the temp for red glow on all metals is between 525F - 975F visible in the daylight.
I think that 900F (steel) is closer to what can happen in a dry atty. E-liquid keeps the coil cool and wicks away the heat with vapor. Let the atty go dry and you've got a fire starter.

I suggest not vaping around pure oxygen. Take it outside.

 

[DaveP]

Oxygen DOES saturate clothing and any woven material in the area. I'd be more worried about a tiny spark during switch actuation. There will be pure oxygen blown in the direction of the E-cig on an exhale if she continues the oxygen while vaping. That oxygen could be sucked into the air vents on the atty, close to the switch, and it will also flow past the heating coil in the atty, increasing the O2 saturation in the E-cig.

It might not be a problem, but I'd run it by the supplier and the doctor. My brother in law is on oxygen and I hope to get him off smokes and into vaping.

I haven't pointed my non-contact IR thermometer at the atty but the muffler on a riding lawn mower is about 900 degrees (in response to an above comment about steel glowing at high temps) and it doesn't glow red even in the shade. I suspect a dry atty is at least that temperature even through the articles I've read say 100C-140C. 100C is 212F and that's with the attty wetted. Dry, it just might reach the upper hundreds.

 

[sanfordf]

If she was using a mod and had a catastrophic battery failure. It could possibly cause some additional burn damage when combined with the oxygen.

 

[Drozd]

Oxygen DOES saturate clothing and any woven material in the area. I'd be more worried about a tiny spark during switch actuation. There will be pure oxygen blown in the direction of the E-cig on an exhale if she continues the oxygen while vaping. That oxygen could be sucked into the air vents on the atty, close to the switch, and it will also flow past the heating coil in the atty, increasing the O2 saturation in the E-cig.

It might not be a problem, but I'd run it by the supplier and the doctor. My brother in law is on oxygen and I hope to get him off smokes and into vaping.

I haven't pointed my non-contact IR thermometer at the atty but the muffler on a riding lawn mower is about 900 degrees (in response to an above comment about steel glowing at high temps) and it doesn't glow red even in the shade. I suspect a dry atty is at least that temperature even through the articles I've read say 100C-140C. 100C is 212F and that's with the attty wetted. Dry, it just might reach the upper hundreds.

I seriously doubt that...VG decomp to acrolene (spelling) happens at 250F...if our atties were burning that hot VG would not be safe at all to vape...I'll stick with the lab verified numbers as far as temperature goes even if it was the FDA lab