Vaping and Rosacea

[LadyPhoenix]

Let me start by saying I'm not a doctor or scientist. But based on my experience and the fact that I can reproduce the symptoms, I believe that vaping triggers skin conditions, namely Rosacea acne. And I think it's the nicotine. So here is my story.

I began vaping in June of 2010. I started with pre-filled cartos in a KR808 battery. I was vaping PG, 18-24 mg. Things went fine but after a number of weeks I began breaking out. I didn't think much of it at first and attributed it to the fact that I quit smoking. Anyway, as time went on the breakouts became far worse and of a different nature. This wasn't like, a pimple here and there kind of thing. It would be a lot of small pimples in a cluster that would eventually form heads and ooze. Nasty. So I went to the dermatologist. She told me it wasn't acne or an allergic reaction, but that it was Rosacea. I didn't believe her since I've never displayed symptoms of it before and I'm 42, plus I did not have the typical "red cheeks" that is predominant in Rosacea sufferers. Nevertheless, I do have the correct ethnic background for it (Scottish). So she put me on Doryx (antibiotic) 1x/day and Finacea (topical) 2x/day.

So I took the meds and creme as directed for months. There was no improvement. During this time I never went back to smoking cigarettes and continued to vape. I read up on the forums here, and thought maybe I was allergic to PG. So I switched suppliers and went to VG. My skin appeared to improve a little, but then nope, back to horrible breakouts. Now while this was going on I was also experiencing what I now know to be gallbladder attacks. That is unrelated to vaping, but it lead me to discover something. I had my gallbladder removed in May of this year and the doctor prescribed Oxycodone for pain. By the third day post-surgery my throat had swelled up. I was having difficulty eating and swallowing. I stopped vaping altogether. When the throat issues did not subside we began tests. I saw my surgeon first, then my GP. We did a barium swallow, nothing. Anyway, it was on near a month post surgery and no relief and I was freaking out. It's scary when you can't swallow, plus I couldn't sing and I am a singer, I thought my voice was ruined by the removal of the endotracheal tube. So I saw an ENT. He looked down my throat and saw that my tongue was swollen. He said "you are having an allergic reaction". Turns out I was allergic to the Oxycodone. Interesting, and I'll tell you why later. I also had a rash on my stomach from it. He prescribed a course of treatment and in a short time when the oxycodone was flushed out of my system the throat swelling completely dissipated. Now all that time I was not vaping, and what happened? Yep, my skin cleared up completely. Hmmm...

I returned to my dermatologist and told her what had happened. Now she knew the antibiotics and Finacea gel were not working, so she attributed my skin issues to my gallbladder disease. Makes sense right? Bad gallbadder, bad skin, remove gallbladder, good skin. BUT...

I began vaping a few weeks ago. I'd been feeling stressed out. So I ordered 100% VG from my old supplier. And in about 6 days what happened? I started breaking out again. Within 3 weeks it was full-blown once again, clusters of small pimples that broke and oozed. So I stopped vaping AGAIN. It's been 4 days. No new pimples, and the existing clusters are drying up - my skin is nearly clear.

Ok so do you see what I see here? Vape, break out, stop vaping, stop breaking out. And the only common ingredient in all of my juices, since I have used both PG and VG and different suppliers and flavors, is the nicotine, as far as I know. Does nicotine trigger Rosacea? I don't know. But if it does why didn't I get it before when I was smoking? I don't know, but I do know that since I have quit smoking I have discovered that I am now allergic to Oxycodone (which I have taken in the past without allergic reaction), and cat dander (I own 3 cats, and have owned cats since I was 18). I know that because I went to see an allergist. Am I now allergic to nicotine? Is it because the nicotine delivery in vaping is far different from the delivery from a cigarette? I suppose I could easily test out my theory by buying 0 Nic E-juice but I don't want to waste any more of my money in case I have a reaction to it and have to toss it.

I wanted to share my experience with other users because I know many people have had skin issues since they began vaping. I am curious to get to the bottom of this. All in all it's better and cheaper for me to not vape at all, but sometimes when I feel stressed out it would be nice to know that I could vape for a bit without suffering these skin problems. I had to put my cat of 19 years down last week, and it was heartbreaking. I wanted a cigarette so badly. But I haven't smoked now in nearly 1.5 years so I wasn't going to throw that away. I want to vape, but I can't do that either.

Would love to hear your experiences and thoughts on the matter.

Thanks.

Donna

 

[Bethzilla]

I am so sorry to hear about your cat and your troubles

A couple of thoughts:
-Have you discussed vaping with your allergist?
-You could always try the nicotine gum to isolate the nicotine, but asking your allergist to do a scratch test with your eliquid would probably be safer.

 

[36tinybells]

I am so sorry for your loss and your health problems.
I can say that I have issues with both high VG and flavor additives- not flavoring, just the "boosters". The VG, if it is a high percentage and/or poor quality makes me break out. A couple of other people on the forum have told me they have the same issue with high vg juices. Just wantedd to let you know. Good luck!

 

[LadyPhoenix]

I am so sorry to hear about your cat and your troubles

A couple of thoughts:
-Have you discussed vaping with your allergist?
-You could always try the nicotine gum to isolate the nicotine, but asking your allergist to do a scratch test with your eliquid would probably be safer.

Bethzilla,

I did. In fact, I brought bottles of juice with me to the allergist on my testing day. He was uninterested in them for the most part from an allergist point of view. He said people are not allergic to chemicals, they can only have a chemical sensitivity. He didn't test the juices, and like most who read that one article about vaping felt that it was extremely dangerous and that I probably damaged my lungs from it, lol. Once he said that and spouted the FDA findings from that one news article, I stopped pursuing it as I knew I would get nowhere with him.

 

[tlynn]

I am having the same problem and was suspecting the vaping. Since I am still smoking cigs and trying to get into vaping I cannot experiment with 0mg nicotine liquid. I would buy you some if you would do it. Any chance you have other health issues like me, namely hypothyroidism and anemia?

I am sorry about your kitty.

 

[LadyPhoenix]

I am having the same problem and was suspecting the vaping. Since I am still smoking cigs and trying to get into vaping I cannot experiment with 0mg nicotine liquid. I would buy you some if you would do it. Any chance you have other health issues like me, namely hypothyroidism and anemia?

I am sorry about your kitty.

Thank you. I miss my little baby girl cat.

As far as I know, in other respects I am quite healthy. I feel tons better since the gallbladder removal. I had tests prior to surgery and the doctor said "you are healthier than I am". So I don't know of any other health issues such as with my thyroid. It could be a general glycerine sensitivity, as I have read people do have this, though it's in so many products you would think I would have already known. Or the delivery of the nicotine.

Once you stop smoking you discover allergies you didn't know you had. This is because the cilia in your lungs and nasal passages are no longer being anesthetized by cigarette smoke. They wake up and start to do their job again. Still, I really want to pinpoint exactly WHAT in the ejuices is causing this skin reaction.

Any ideas how to get this information? Will an allergist tell me or do I need to bring the stuff to a lab first, etc? Anyone?

 

[36tinybells]

I figured it out by trial and error. I have alot of food allergies and have had to do this many times for different things. You eliminate 1 thing for 3 weeks and then reintroduce it and see what happens. It is time consuming, but the allergy tests from the doctor basically said I was allergic to almost everything and that is ridicules. What would I do, live in a bubble?

 

[Bethzilla]

Once you stop smoking you discover allergies you didn't know you had. This is because the cilia in your lungs and nasal passages are no longer being anesthetized by cigarette smoke. They wake up and start to do their job again. Still, I really want to pinpoint exactly WHAT in the ejuices is causing this skin reaction.

Any ideas how to get this information? Will an allergist tell me or do I need to bring the stuff to a lab first, etc? Anyone?

Oh, I can't wait for the more allergies to kick in! (NOT) So far, if anything, they seem to be subsiding although I have been having sneezing fits.

I'm not sure how you would go about finding someone to test for 'chemical sensitivity;' perhaps your primary care physician could refer you (assuming you have better rapport with that person than you have with your allergist). In the meanwhile, trying a very simple, no flavorings just highest quality PG-VG-nicotine juice might make sense.

 

[burns_erin]

Interesting, I have always had rosacea, complete with really red cheeks. And I have found mine has decreased in severity. So I was figuring it was an issue of carbon monoxide. My rosacea was never so bad as when I was smoking on a mountain. Also, my rosacea improved when I was making my own skin care creams with vg, so I figured it was also a component.

 

[Fernand]

Hmm. My wife is having the same trouble, worsening since she started vaping 2-3 months ago. Acne, rosacea, becoming annoying, with the acne component far worse than she's ever had. I have had an occasional pimple, but nothing unusual, and have been vaping for over a year. It seems some people (with rosacea predisposition?) are reacting to SOMETHING in vaping, and I'm starting to be concerned, as we have heard this acne business too many times. My wife suffers from rosacea anyway, but the pustules are something new. The only way to figure it out is by trial and error, as you have been doing, very logically and competently I might add.

Our situation is we both vape all VG, all DIY. No mystery juices. I mix at 10 or 20 mg/ml nicotine, she tends to use the 20 more often as she quit smoking more recently. Initially she was vaping 30 mg/ml. The flavoring is all FlavourArt, and no flavoring combination exceeds 8%, single flavors don't exceed 4%. In 10 ml, that's under 20 drops total, the average drop being around 0.040 ml. Relative to most commercial and DIY flavor levels, that's quite on the low side. The nicotine base (100 mg/ml in VG) is Box Elder's (which has tested as high purity free base levo-nicotine), and the concentration seems about right. The VG is Humco USP or equivalent from Lotioncrafter. We use cartomizers, namely CE2, Echo-E and Boge, with no detectable juice burning or acrolein production. At the first sign of running low, I refill the cartos. I vape about 4-5 ml a day, she vapes about 1 ml a day or less.

Now the question is what to eliminate. We too want to know. There is also a big question as to whether this is systemic, or results from deposition of aerosol on the face. If the latter, one could imagine making an effort to seriously limit the amount of vapor blowing onto the face. So that's option 1. We would also have to limit my second hand vapor, as I kick up a vapor volcano wherever I go ;-) In practice it's not that easy, as it's hard to vape and not be in the cloud.

Option 2 is for her to eliminate the nicotine and vape just glycerin with a flavoring, and for me to not expose her to nicotine in second hand vapor. That's all conceivably doable

Option 3 is to eliminate all flavoring and retain nicotine. That too is doable.

Option 4 is to switch to PG, but your experience suggests that's not relevant. And PG has other side effects in addition to tasting very "chemical" compared to VG, which is only sweet. That sounds like a tasteless waste of time.

Option 5 is to stop vaping altogether, but I seriously fear she will return to cigarettes, she's not at all at all out of the woods yet. That's the best chance of solving the skin problem but the worst chance of avoiding smoking.

Any thoughts anybody?

 

[Fernand]

Just a few more thoughts.

Deposition of nicotine on the face would take place with smoking to some degree. And systemic nicotine she had no problem with when smoking and when using nicotine gum. Flavoring? A lot of flavoring is used in cigarettes, though it's largely burned. If both PG and VG do it, then it could be "either carrier" (VG/PG which chemically have some common features, but have most in common in physical properties e.g. on skin), but then again VG is in almost ALL facial creams, so it can't be just VG on skin. Is it likely that an aerosol of glycerin acts differently on skin than glycerin as liquid? Or something common to various flavors, or nicotine or some contaminant of extracted nicotine. OR possibly something in the cartos, or from the vaporizing process?

Option 6 is to vape straight VG. That's doable too, not at all useless in the smoking substitution dimension, and if she's OK with that, we can try reintroducing either flavoring or nicotine later. But at least we'll know more, likely in the shortest time. If the skin improves, we rule out vapor on face, VG, the vaping process, and it's down to the nicotine or flavoring. Then we'll continue to narrow it down.

Donna, what cartos/atomizers do you use?

Would you consider trying straight VG? It's actually an acceptable vape, it fulfills most of the behavioral needs, the vapor is thick and lightly sweet, and you can get it down the street, about $5 for a 6 oz bottle. And if you like it, you can get a quart or a gallon or 50 gallons for about the same price (plus shipping ;-) ), as it's a surplus product of plant biodiesel production. Yes, I'm a scientist. My daughter teaches dermatology. Anyway, since you're in no-vape mode now, you've got little to lose. That's what I'm making up for my wife. A boge carto with VG with a few drops (1%) of Bacardi 151 to thin it a bit. She just agreed to try it. Guinea pig #2. You wanna continue to be subject #1?

 

[burns_erin]

I hope you guys get something worked out. I never even thought about the possibility vaping might make mine worse. I'll take good luck any day, considering how infrequently I get it, lol.

 

[heatherina]

Mine is worse than it has been in many years and never even thought it may be caused by vaping, drat!

 

[Fernand]

My wife has been on limited vaping, using VG-only, for a few days now, and it seems her skin is improving. I can't really demand that she vape up a storm using the VG-only carto, though it would make it easier to draw conclusions.

I do rather believe my skin gets more red and oily when I vape more than usual, but I'm not really sure, and it doesn't lead to pustules or anything obvious in my case.

 

[jeffree]

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Lady P. I went through a similar reaction during my first year of vaping and eventually found that all-VG juices work much better for me. Just occasional zits on my face and scalp these days. I recently tried a couple of mild shampoos (Jasons) and facial cleansers (Olay) that have pretty much elimintated the zits entirely. But when I tried switching back to PG mixes a while back, the probs returned in force within a week. So it's all-VG for me, all the time. The good news is that I've come to prefer the taste and huge vapor of VG. Anyhow, good luck to you in your search.

 

[turnforward]

When I was still using the old-fashioned attys 801, 901, 510. They always seeped out fluid and left a residue on the battery. Then when I rubbed my nose or face, I had the same Rose-breakout. But Hydro-cortisone always fixed it.
Now that I am using cartomizers, I don't have that problem. I just wash my hands after re-filling them.
It sounds that you are really sensitive to it!

 

[Fernand]

I don't see how people can even stand the taste and (other) side effects of PG, but Lady P had the trouble with both VG and PG. Same with my wife. It's apparently not the carrier that's doing this.

 

[Momster]

Just to add to the Vape on the Face mysteries, I have psoriasis on my face/ears/scalp and when I starting vaping more VG than PG, my psoriasis on those areas actually improved. However, my rosacea has neither worsened nor improved. I don't know the ages of you ladies in this thread, but my rosacea kicked into high gear when I entered the Menopause Zone. I'm hoping mine clears up in a year or so on its own.

 

[Fernand]

Wife is early 40s.

 

[Momster]

Hmmm...could be a contributing factor, unfortunately. Getting old sucks! Thanks for your research with your wife, Fernand. I appreciate it and I'm anxious to see what your wife's results will be.