Vaping causes heart attacks
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My rule is, once you lie you're out of the conversation. I've googled a LOT of news stories to get the drift of the public discourse. There is a LOT of shameless lying going on. There are more scientists on our side than it appears but they rarely speak and for good reason. The Fed's own National Institute of Health doles out $30 billion a year in researcch grants. If you get on their black list instead of working in a lab you'll be making tacos. The only science voice I trust right now is Dr. Farsilinos simply because I believe he will telll us the truth as best he knows it whether we want to hear it or not. He is Greek, works in Greece and I'm sure will never get a penny of funding from any US government source. My hypothesis from the start is this is about the money, follow the money. The more I read the more obvious it is to me.
The safety issue that impresses me the most right now are misbehaving batteries. I'm going to learn some more about that.
The safety issue that impresses me the most right now are misbehaving batteries. I'm going to learn some more about that.
Human perspiration eats through paint.
Will Glantz's next campaign be: Don't Sweat, Live Forever?
Will Glantz's next campaign be: Don't Sweat, Live Forever?
Someone recently said Dr. F is ANTZ because he said diketones should be avoided...
It is possible, I didn't read that post.
Regardless it is a quite the stretch from "If it is negative about vaping, it is considered a junk study here..." to someone recently said".
Hi Caramel. While I tried searching this digital jungle for a quote
I could not find one but I also remember such a comment being made by other than myself.
Dr. Farsalino has long been held up as a vape world hero
because his studies comparing the effects of vaping vs smoking cigarettes
made vaping shine as a substitute for smoking.
But Dr Konstantino didn't stop there.
He aimed at the effects of vaping as compared to not smoking or vaping.
His studies aren't over and are coming out piecemeal.
Here:
A new study verifies the lower risk-potential of e-cigarettes but identifies an avoidable risk
“The study is important because it confirms the lower risk potential of e-cigarettes compared to smoking but also identifies an avoidable risk”
said leading author Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos. He added: “We expect to see appropriate action taken by the e-cigarette industry to remove this small but unnecessary risk, making the products even safer than they currently are”.
That leaves much open as to what exactly should be done and who should make sure it is done.
Regards,
Hazy
It was in a thread with rolygate involved regarding the effects of diacetyls on vapers.
I believe racehorse was in there and seem to remember caramel throwing 2 cents in to the conversation also.
I was just lurking.
Maybe that will help you remember.
Regards,
Hazy
It was Steve who brought it upIt was in a thread with rolygate involved regarding the effects of diacetyls on vapers.
I believe racehorse was in there and seem to remember caramel throwing 2 cents in to the conversation also.
I was just lurking.
Maybe that will help you remember.
Regards,
Hazy
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...anda-re-diacetyl-e-cigs-39.html#post15445144
Post #391
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When I saw this topic I immediately thought of the recent video interview with this heart surgeon (and Chief of Staff at Trillium hospital) at https://youtu.be/s4oFQ3w3Znk - nice to see an expert with POSITIVE things to say about vaping and heart health. Worth watching!
It was in a thread with rolygate involved regarding the effects of diacetyls on vapers.
I believe racehorse was in there and seem to remember caramel throwing 2 cents in to the conversation also.
I was just lurking.
Maybe that will help you remember.
Regards,
Hazy
Post 384-
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ganda-re-diacetyl-e-cigs-39.html#post15445144
they may be of concern. whats the probability?
the good Dr. F says that the amounts of diacetyl
in the concentrations found in e-juice where
ten to a hundred times below work place standards.
he estimated 1 out of 1000 might develop lung
disease over a 45 year exposure period.
that risk factor is so low as to be barely detectable.
even though he now is apparently saying diketones
should be avoided i'm all in.
where are all those bakery flavors at?
regards
mike
Thank you Hazy, always so helpful!
[...]
But Dr Konstantino didn't stop there.
He aimed at the effects of vaping as compared to not smoking or vaping.
His studies aren't over and are coming out piecemeal.
Here:
A new study verifies the lower risk-potential of e-cigarettes but identifies an avoidable risk
“The study is important because it confirms the lower risk potential of e-cigarettes compared to smoking but also identifies an avoidable risk”
said leading author Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos. He added: “We expect to see appropriate action taken by the e-cigarette industry to remove this small but unnecessary risk, making the products even safer than they currently are”.
That leaves much open as to what exactly should be done and who should make sure it is done.
Regards,
Hazy
And the industry responded as expected - see ECTA in Canada and AEMSA in US.
Pretty much against ANTZ position "everything shall be banned right now and ginormous funding sent to us to study it for the long term before a final decision could be made".
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That was a conditional statement. With the condition ("If this is exactly what he said") not met.
Then I presume you will for sure be doing your own testing so that you can be fully informed. If not, why not? Why would you allow 3rd party information to create the illusion of "fully informed?"
Good luck with that.
The topic was brought up by others in that thread, including roly.
See #383 by racehorse in same thread.
the reason both steve and racehorse brought it up is because
Dr F's study's conclusions regarding diacetyls in vape have been brought up
in this forum as well as elsewhere.
Note the second post in that thread,
post # 02 by skoony links to:
http://www.cigbuyer.com/the-fuss-about-diacetyl-in-e-cigarettes/
Where in the 9th or 10th paragraph it states:
"In a recent study conducted by leading e-cig researcher Dr. Farsalinos of the Department of Cardiology, Onassis Cardiac Surgery Center, over 159 samples were evaluated from 36 e-liquid manufacturers. 74.2% of those samples contained diacetyl! Even though the exposure levels were 100 times lower than tobacco, and as mentioned previously, smoking has never been tied to bronchiolitis obliterans or “popcorn lung,” it still raises concerns about the use diacetyl in e-liquid."
So in effect, it wasn't steve who brought it up.
It is a fact that presently myriad juice manufacturers, distributors
and retailers as well as gub'min entities are struggling to deal with.
I just had to deal with it because one of my fave
flavors, 'condensed milk' is loaded with the stuff.
Regards,
Hazy
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Hazy, can you clarify which topic are you talking about? Cause there are two topics there, one being diacetyl, and the other being Dr. F being ANTZ. While I agree that diacetyl has been brought up by multiple posters in multiple threads, the topic of Dr. F being ANTZ looks to me as being Steve's doing.
Sure, caramel.
I don't think steve would be saying Dr Farsalino's is ANTZ
but rather that he will soon be or is already considered ANTZ because of his latest findings regarding
the effects of diacetyl.
Now, as usual the threads in this forum go on and off topic a lot,
but in the thread in question, where I believe Steve saw that Farsalino's
study would be raising issues is referred to in my quoted post, skoony's and the article skoony linked to.
See Thread: Sleazy propaganda re diacetyl in e-cigs
It goes full circle in other threads, too numerous to refer to
where at least one medical doctor member of this forum as well as several other posters
bring up the question of whether Dr F will now be considered ANTZ.
I know I myself have brought up the likelihood of that occurring, seeing
the apparent vast numbers of
vapers who would seemingly prefer to hide their heads in the sand regarding the
possible ill effects of our "hobby".
Best Regards,
Hazy
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