Vcore - vertical micro coil in oddy/kayfun/Russian/Ithaca/ect.

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I posted this build on the ramie board, and Dice called it the snake eyes. At the time I didn't even know it had a name, or that others were doing it. In reality I have come to realize it is not even the same build. I first saw the vertical kayfun build in rippoff trippers video a month or so ago. While I enjoyed the build, I found something lacking. It was as if too much air was going up the coil, but I'll admit I did not play with the build as is enough. That's when it occurred to me to try two smaller coils, so that there would be more air resistance. I googled and googled, and could not find what would seem to be a vertical shotgun, inspired by both rippoff trippers chimney and shotgun builds. I was convinced it was a nutty idea, nutty enough that it may work. And alas it did, and has been my only build on the kayfun since. After going through this board I was intrigued by Dice's snakeyes build, and it's use of just one wire( I'll have to try the inverted v next). So last night, without thinking of the implications, went about building my usual build, but with only one wire this time. The build is 30 gauge wrapped 13-14 times around an 18 gauge needle. The final ohms with two coils is around 1.09-1.30 depending on wraps. So I did it times two on the same wire, placed it on the mod and fired it up. Other than a little smoke, it appeared to not fire. It was getting hot, but would not glow. Being a noob I was not putting two and two together. I checked the ohms and it came out to 3.85. That's when I realized that by building on one wire, I had quadrupled the coil's resistance, not halved it. So I quickly rebuilt it in my usual fashion as I was dying for a good vape. I realize that to build it down to around 1.09 I would need to use twisted wire, which I will try soon. For now it works fine as two separate coils.


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I cleaned the tails up a bit afterwords before putting the funnel on

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JeremyR

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Looks like a good build.. I've never had issue with too much air flow. But it depends on how many watts your trying to run. Lower watts less air, more watts more air. Kayfuns got adjustable air though too...

What are you running it on a mech or vv?

If you have any issue with slight dry hit, your wick is loose off the coil, all you need to do is use a needle at the outside of the looseness and tuck a little tuft of wick in to keep it touching the coil. Or a little tiny fluffy tuft at the gap on the top if that left coil..

The best performance is with the wick lightly touching the coil fully but not up tight against it.

(I really tried to avoid bashing rip for a long time because he took it to the masses, but all everyone talks about is rips chimney build, one day I was kinda annoyed and that popped into my head... I should have no issue with the guy.)
 
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Thanks, I rarely get dry hits with this build, which is one of the reasons I switched over, really good for chain vaping. I do use mechs, hoping to get a vw in the next couple of months. I tend to wrap the wick quite firm, but haven't had any issues with it yet. Maybe less firm would give a better vape. I've also gotten into the habit of putting a little oval piece of 400 mesh just below the drip tip to catch any little flyers
 

dice57

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3.85 ohm dual series build, lol, yeah series is additive. Using twisted 28 currently, put got some 22 & 26 gauge wire in, so guess it's time to rebuild the Russian after 6 months on the same coil. lol

Find wicking dual verts much more forgiving than single verts, and never a dry hit at up to 30 watts.
 

Aal_

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Jeremy buddy I'm having a problem with microcoils with NR wires that they are deforming and wraps get away from each others as soon as I press the button with horizontal or vertical coils. Does this happen with you? Should I secure the coil with cotton before first fire?

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JeremyR

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I have seen it happen. The coil needs to be set with light firing. It helps to torch/ gas stove the kanthal wire first before you no res it for sure, that will take the spring out of it. It helps if you double up the no res by twisting it. That will make it sturdier so it holds the coil in position, I use 26g tinned copper no res so it's pretty sturdy. I pre bend the no res with test fits so its positioned right where I want it.

To set it once in, hopefully you have it mounted with the bit in the air tube, keep your bit in hand slide it just out the coil. Ever so lightly fire the coil at low watts or a very short burst so it barely glows yet or won't deform... slide the bit back in right as you let off the fire button.. Fire again little longer slide it back in, fire till just shows a glow, slide back in right away at the same time you let off the fire button. Continue with more glow getting the bit in while still glowing. Fire red hot, bit it and let cool. You should now be able to fire with out it Moving again.

That's what I do every time. Kinda like you tweeze a micro coil when it's glowing to set it so it doesn't stretch out. You slide the bit in while glowing to set it.
 
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Aal_

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I have seen it happen. The coil needs to be set with light firing. It helps to torch/ gas stove the kanthal wire first before you no res it for sure, that will take the spring out of it. It helps if you double up the no res by twisting it. That will make it sturdier so it holds the coil in position, I use 26g tinned copper no res so it's pretty sturdy. I pre bend the no res with test fits so its positioned right where I want it.

To set it once in, hopefully you have it mounted with the bit in the air tube, keep your bit in hand slide it just out the coil. Ever so lightly fire the coil at low watts or a very short burst so it barely glows yet or won't deform... slide the bit back in right as you let off the fire button.. Fire again little longer slide it back in, fire till just shows a glow, slide back in right away at the same time you let off the fire button. Continue with more glow getting the bit in while still glowing. Fire red hot, bit it and let cool. You should now be able to fire with out it Moving again.

That's what I do every time. Kinda like you tweeze a micro coil when it's glowing to set it so it doesn't stretch out. You slide the bit in while glowing to set it.

Thanks a lot I will try that. Cheers!

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Kgb424

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The over lap is from twisting the top wire around to screw it to the deck, its has happened to mine when I've built mine.

Its hitting like a champ thanks for the encouragement the overlap had me baffled but I think it'll be better next time ,as far as wicking goes I used riptrippers method it came out okay tastes awesome and hits good.
A little off topic but for some reason my rocket has a harder air draw with both holes open it used to be great now its too tight it take a lot of effort to get a good hit any one know why thanks

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Kgb424

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Really, does the cone coil add to the flavor, and how to do you get the cone shape, wrap it on a sharpened pencil or maybe a Phillips screw driver, let me know how it works out, cause I got my Nano tanks for Kayfuns, and might convert them to drippers. and was going to use a chimney coil using twisted 30 gauge Kanthal , and remove the chimney and its cap. so your coil might be some thing to try in a dripper setup on a Kayfun, cause there is big difference in taste and flavor between a normal coil and a chimney coil, that's why I use twisted 30 gauge, 32 is a pain in .... to twist, and twisted 28 gauge doesn't have the flavor, like twisted 30 has and now the dripper setup, maybe even more favor.
 
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Really, does the cone coil add to the flavor, and how to do you get the cone shape, wrap it on a sharpened pencil or maybe a Phillips screw driver, let me know how it works out, cause I got my Nano tanks for Kayfuns, and might convert them to drippers. and was going to use a chimney coil using twisted 30 gauge Kanthal , and remove the chimney and its cap. so your coil might be some thing to try in a dripper setup on a Kayfun, cause there is big difference in taste and flavor between a normal coil and a chimney coil, that's why I use twisted 30 gauge, 32 is a pain in .... to twist, and twisted 28 gauge doesn't have the flavor, like twisted 30 has and now the dripper setup, maybe even more favor.


it gets two thumbs up from me. This way the air is hitting all the coils directly, not just travelling through the coil. I happened to have a soldering tip which worked perfectly, I heard a dremel bit may work, or anything in the shape of a pencil. I'm just not sure a pencil will hold. I first tried it with 26 and it didn't work,just could't get the coil to hold it's shape. I ordered some 22 and it worked perfectly. Let us know how it pans out for you if you manage it
 
I just rewicked with all rayon, a looser fit than what I had before which had a cotton core. I didn't get any flooding with either which is nice, even though the juice wells are not completely full. With cotton this would have flooded. I am though trying to figure out how open to keep the juice control on the rose, as I have it wide open, and I think that is a problem. I think that what I am discovering is if the coils are too inundated with juice, the rose does't respond well. So instead of getting better flavour, I am getting a poorer vape. Too much juice and she does't snap and crackle like she should. So experimenting now closing her down and letting the rayon take care of the wicking
 

JeremyR

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Yeah sounds like a plan. The rayon will saturate immensely if you keep giving it juice. Your right you gotta keep it In That not too saturated stage for optimum vape.

Either jc down, or add more rayon to slow the wicking in the channels. It's so much easier to add more in a vertical pack build. Many times I find I have to add more for a few rounds till I got enough in then it would be good for a long while.
 
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Yeah sounds like a plan. The rayon will saturate immensely if you keep giving it juice. You right you gotta keep it In That not too saturated stage for optimum vape.

Either jc down, or add more rayon to slow the wicking in the channels. It's so much easier to add more in a vertical pack build. Many times I find I have to add more for a few rounds till I got enough in then it would be good for a long while.

thanks for the advice. I added more rayon,and tempered the juice flow, and now she is rocking. I have the juice control barely open, and now she's chucking the vapour and flavour is best I've had yet on it. This cone coil is working really good. I had envisioned it for the rose, but it wasn't until the 22 came in that it became a reality. I have some 25 gauge and it works as well, just haven't mounted a coil. She's vaping at .9 ohm, which is fine
 

dice57

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Oh kay now, after perfecting the way I build the inverted V-twin, vertical mounted dual series coil, and the requests for precise build and wicking instructions with photos, here it comes.

But first, a little history, just because, :lol: :D

Reason I am doing the build in the Vcore thread, is this is where the Snakeyes first made an appearance in my vape career. Vcore got it's start in the nano-dragon coil thread, which is an offshoot of the Micro Coil Thread. Jeremy and I thought vertical mounted builds deserved their own thread. Since he had more experience than I did at the time, opted to let him start this thread, fact I had to push him to start it, threatening him that if he took to long I was going to start it and call in the Romulan Warpcore, or the Klingon Singularity. Volcanic Dragon was another of my suggestions. :lol:

Have only been a Vaper for just over 1 year, but my Quest to find that "Something Missing" in my vape, lead me to where I build and vape today. The inverted V was just a natural progression of my vape and trying to optimize the Russian, which was my first rba. Keep in mind also, that every build I do is usually inspired by others builds but applied in a different way or fashion, that helps optimize my rba's.

It is my belief, and a few others, that rba's that supply air from beneath the build are atty's that can benefit by being built vertically. the air flowing through the coils seems to help optimize rba's of this design. Least for me, this has been the case. I build the Aqua, Magma, Russian, and Rose2 all vertically, with great success. And on all those mentioned atty's, I vape them at a minimum of 70 watts, with the Aqua and Magma's in the 90's

Have found that single air supply rba's like the Russian and Rose2, an inverted V vapes much smoother, with no hot leg, and can vape at much higher watts then a single vert in the same space. On the Russian especially, it is my preferred build, and only one I'll have on it, just fits it purrfectly. Also, this is the easiest build to re-wick, dry burn and maintain. And is more tolerant on wicking densities.

I use an Artisian Wire coil jig to wrap all my coils now. Can be found at any Michaels Hobby, or amazon dot com. I keep heavy tension on the wire when doing my wraps, keeping as fluid and constant in my tension and coiling as possible.

Here is a pic of the latest V-twin that I just installed on the rose. This is after have done all my wraps, pulled back the wire one round each on each leg, then pulled off the 1.5 wraps I needed to get my target ohms of 0.366 .


AyLFo6F.jpg




When doing the V-twin, one has to keep in mind your mounting requirements and placement of where you want to have the end leads once coil is bent into the V. Do I want the leads on the outside of the coils, or on the inner surface. On the Rose2 they need to be on the outside surface, or no air will get up the stacks, with the Russian, outside and mid way works well, depends if you are using the mounting holes or the under screw head sites. In either case, need the outside of the coil wraps to be even with the inside surface of the mounting blocks once bent into position.

The next pic is for the Rose2 coil, and the following shows the exact same coil on the Russian.


qZS07Kp.jpg

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As you can see, am using the mounting holes that go through the Russian post blocks. Cut off a couple lengths from my wrapping mandrel, and use these sections to help in mounting and bending this coil. Once it's decided where the leads are to end up, I use a small pocket knife blade to count the wire loops, to position the blade between the middle gap. Use the mandrel section in the coil while doing this, once I know where to bend, work the blade between the coil wraps, then pull the mandrel back enough to work the blade completely between the wraps where to bend. Then bend the coil into the a V. once both mandrels can go through each coil, will use needle nose pliers to tidy every thing up, squeezing it here and there if necessary to get everything just right.

Once the correct V angle is attained, then bend the legs into the correct plane and orientation for assembly and mounting. With the rose this requires a leg length of 1 cm. Less and the coil will be to close to the air intake and the center wick will plug the air. It can be a hair less than 1 cm, but a very fine hair. With the Russian, leave the legs long, slide legs through holes, bend coil up into position, adjust, then tighten down the screws and trim the ends.

Wicking, using both Ramie and Rayon fiber in exactly the same wicking method and procedure. And pretty damn close the same densities and thickness. The following pics is wicking Rose2's coil, but the process is the same for the Russian, but with the coil mounted.

First get the amount of wick to start with. This is the stand of ramie I selected, did cut this one in half, before wetting it.

jnive0d.jpg



Then wet my wick with juice, applying enough to soak the wick and get everything nice and orderly. Here's half the length of the same strand of Ramie after juice is worked in and loose ends trimmed off.


G4PHkKO.jpg



Notice, shaped the ramie into the form and thickness of what is being wicked.. Working it to fit the length of the coils. Once in the correct shape, place the wick between the coils, or if mounted, thread it between.


atRxCLx.jpg



Then warp both tails around the coil:


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Once each tail is wrapped 1.5 times around the coil, fold the tails up;


uxNyHrj.jpg



On the Russian, coil is already mounted, and this is when to secure the containment ring, trim off any excess wick tail, then tuck the wick into the juice decks. ending up with this:


nkUzh7U.jpg



On the Rose, just grab the wick wrapped col build and insert the coil legs into the mounting holes, tighten the set screws, then tuck the wick tail into the first juice ports:


kYqtTXJ.jpg


Then I'll usually pull half the width of the wick back, and tucking it down to the deck and out the opposing juice port. If there is not enough wick to fill all four juice ports, then just grab a spare strand and place in the opposing port and tuck it down and over the other end.


vE9NK0s.jpg


Then trim everything up, saturate.


alUP6ij.jpg



assemble fill and vape.

New wicks I break in straight mech, so say 45 watts is what she's doing, slap her on the S.Max and dial it up to 5.5 volts and we are doing the "Smoke on the Water" warp 80 boggie.

On this build I used 22 gage Kanthal A1 wire. 12 wraps around a ~16 gage mandrel will net 0.42 ohms, wrapped this one at 10.5 wraps and nailed 0.367, or their abouts :lol: Have the Russian and both Rose2's with the iV-twin, ranging from 0.37-0.41 ohms, so on Max, that's 72-82 watts at 5.5 volts. Have both ramie and rayon as wick, all three, vaping quite phenomenal, just saying.!!!! :lol:

Will be posting this on several threads, but couldn't of built this with out the work done by others first, micro coil, nano dragon, Vcore, just hemp, just ramie, rayon, you name it, I steal cultivate ideas from the best, then apply it towards my needs and goals. So thanks ecf for making me the vaper I am today.



Vape long and Prosper.!!!!




Would apologize for the post's length, but frak it, had more then one request for this build, and didn't want to leave anything out. :lol: :D


Oh, and I wanted to add, this build works phenomenal at any ohm build you are aiming for. I initially had the Russian at 1.8 ohms with this build on the Provari, vaping at 15 watts, and it like blew me away. Have used twisted wire of every sort on the iV, with great suprising results. Tiger, M.Mundy, Savannah, double and tripple twisted 28, you name it, all Vapped Fran Frakking Tasitic.!!!

The reason I am now using 22 gauge is because I am targeting a very specific ohm build. Namely my target ohms is 0.3667 ohms. Yeah, I know, dreamer and , what?, Why that #. Well, have a SuperMax, and it's max output is found at 5.5 volts and 15 amps. Hit the target I'm regulated vaping in the 80's. 0.4 will get ya 75.

Also, while I love twisted combo's, find mounting them haphazard in some rba's. especially on posts that share multiple wire leads. Oh well, got to play with some things it seems.
 

TheKiwi

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Hey dice just a clarification. I'm looking at building this on the r91. From the picture showing the wick wrapped around the coils, I'm guessing the intent is to create some kinda "enclosure" to force the airflow through the 2 coils. Is that right?

Second question is, when you say "wrap the wick around the coil", do you mean use both ends of the single strand of ramie, and wrap it around the ENTIRE inverted V, or do you mean use each end of the wick to wrap each of the 2 "sub coils"

The reason I'm asking is because if it's the former, then I can see how I can form the "enclosure" to force air through the inverted V. But at the same time, isn't there some kinda "wasted" surface area on the inner side of the inverted V?

Also, what inner diameter did you use for the coils

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dice57

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Umm, thought I covered everything, but wick only goes between the two coils once, then both ends a full 1.5 times around the mulberry bush. and yes, if you go back and read, I explained everything even the ~16 gage mandrel that I used to wrap with.

But yes, one does create an air room between the air intake and the coil chimney's by building and wicking this way, basically forcing the air up 2 equal and uniform pathways. Creating two converging vape streams forming one at the funnels hypotenuse. It's like vaping a power cruiser :D :lol:
 
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