VG or PG for nic stock

[Zabolee]

Hey guys,
I have not begun to DIY my own juice, yet. But I am starting to look into the different methods, and safety precautions.

However, this question has been on my mind. I like to vape either 100% VG, max VG, or 65%VG/35%PG. Because of my affinity for high VG juice, I'd like to get my nic in 100% VG stock.

I know that flavor is carried better by PG, and I was wondering if there was a noticeable difference in how nic is dissolved in VG vs. PG

 

[dannyv45]

It is true that VG dissolves flavoring much slower then VG so it does require longer steep time and a good mixing and shaking. But if you prefer a higher VG mix then you should get your NIC in VG. If you vape mostly PG then NIC should be in PG. The reason is if you start using large percentages of PG flavoring in the 15 - 20% range and Mix a mostly VG blend of lets say 80/20 or better then you can run into negative flavor percentage numbers using PG NIC in combination with PG flavoring thus never being able to make your desired VG level. Remember PG flavoring is additive to the total PG mix percentage.

 

[Zabolee]

I've got a strong background in chemistry, so the mixing ratios isn't an issue. I figured that was the case. I'll pick up some veg nic.

And since it came up, do you know of any vg based flavors? I'd like to vape as organic as possible

 

[Nimaz]

Nicotine in 100% VG is a good choice for you. I tend to go on higher PG (60 to 70%) myself and order my 100mg/ml nicotine in 100% PG, which makes final dilutions easier. Also,make sure you order 100%PG and 100% VG solutions for your dilution adjustments with in mind that many flavor concentrates are in PG. If your total flavoring is at 20% final, then you'll end up at 80% VG max, which is limiting if you like 100%VG. Check this thread Organic PG-free Flavor Suppliers List. You may be able to find what you're looking for. There is also DX diketone (Acetoin, Acetyl Propionyl)-free at wizard labs that I am using. Have fun!

 

[Zabolee]

I've seen wizard labs, but never looked for flavoring so. Thanks for the tip.

I'm guessing vg can be frozen too? I've got an extra freezer in my basement that is almost always empty. So I can store it there

 

[Zabolee]

Also, I know that you need to keep nic in as small of a bottle as possible to reduce head space. That's fine. Do you need to do the same with the VG and PG base.

 

[Nimaz]

Pure glycerol does not crystallize easily, but it can be chilled to form a solid . For example, I found that a 70% solution freezes at -46.1°C. Similarly, a 60% of PG freezes at -48°C. Glycerol is used as non-toxic storing sensitive liquids, such as enzymes, in laboratory freezers. I think that our freezers may go up to -20°C. I suppose that you should alicot your solutions in appropriate small volume so you don't freeze and thaw your solution too many times, process by which the ingredients are denatured.

 

[Johntodd]

If you use alcohol based flavors and VG nic, then you can heat-steep them (caps off) to evap the alcohol out and end up with close to 100%VG vapable juice.

That's what I do. And it's nice and thick. Gets cloudy in here.

 

[mhertz]

Also it has been speculated that vg nic will last longer than pg nic in the freezer, because of the higher viscosity and lower molecular movement impeeding disolved O2 and nic bonding into oxides as quickly...

Btw, i've also heard of several max-vg vapers which buy nic in pg, so that they don't need to get any seperate pg, but only vg and flavoring to achieve a max-vg ratio of e.g. 80/20 or 70/30 thereabouts...

 

[JimScotty0]

Btw, i've also heard of several max-vg vapers which buy nic in pg, so that they don't need to get any seperate pg, but only vg and flavoring to achieve a max-vg ratio of e.g. 80/20 or 70/30 thereabouts...

I prefer a 20pg/80vg ratio but sometimes it winds up around 25pg/75vg ratio and depending on the recipe since my flavors are almost all PG based. I mix it to only have to add a few ML's of PG so I don't use much direct PG at all. I like to have a little PG to put in first and then add the flavors so I can easily blend them together. Then I add the Nic and last the VG.

 

[Train2]

I don't beleive there's any degradation from storing straight VG and PG (no nic) at regular room temperature. Mine has a "use by" date that's about 2 years out, but don't think that'll be a problem.
Nic, on the other hand, I keep in a freezer (and might well acquire 5+ years' worth if they actually pass any idiotic legislation).

Also, I know that you need to keep nic in as small of a bottle as possible to reduce head space. That's fine. Do you need to do the same with the VG and PG base.

 

[Nimaz]

I don't beleive there's any degradation from storing straight VG and PG (no nic) at regular room temperature. Mine has a "use by" date that's about 2 years out, but don't think that'll be a problem.
Nic, on the other hand, I keep in a freezer (and might well acquire 5+ years' worth if they actually pass any idiotic legislation).

I actually like the idea of storing some nicotine solution in case of future forced shortage... 1 liter of 100mg/ml is 100,000 mg (or 100g) of nicotine. If one use 5ml of ejuice/day at 10mg/ml, in a year that will make 18,250mg of total nicotine or ~1/5 of the total volume of nicotine stock. In these conditions, the liter of nicotine will last about 4 to 5 years. A life time of nicotine is actually possible to store in its liquid form...

But there is maybe even better! One maybe able to buy a kilogram of nicotine ... Then just dilute the right amount in VG or PG and we are good to go. 1Kg is 1000g or 1,000,000mg so 10,000 liters of nicotine at 100mg/ml or several life times worth of nicotine. That's insane if my numbers are right. There is certainly obvious caveats. I didn't look into it because the idea just pumped out as I was typing, but think about it...

There is that thread about it Question about making e juice
Overall, it's not recommended to use pure nicotine unless properly trained. No joke, the substance is very dangerous and only available as a liquid form...

 

[Zabolee]

Mhertz, I like that idea of using pg nic so I don't need to buy extra pg. I was looking at MFS website, and my order is starting to get expensive. That will help cut some of the cost down. It doesn't help me much when I want to vape 100% VG. But most of my ready-made juices are only 65-85% VG

 

[Rossum]

1Kg is 1000g or 1,000,000mg so 10,000 liters of nicotine at 100mg/ml

You might wish to double-check your math on that. Looks to me like your decimal point slipped by about three places.

 

[Nimaz]

You might wish to double-check your math on that. Looks to me like your decimal point slipped by about three places.

My bad... Volume Unit issue 10,000 milliliters instead of liters, or 10 liters of 100mg/ml nicotine solution.

 

[Capt.shay]

Mhertz, I like that idea of using pg nic so I don't need to buy extra pg. I was looking at MFS website, and my order is starting to get expensive. That will help cut some of the cost down. It doesn't help me much when I want to vape 100% VG. But most of my ready-made juices are only 65-85% VG

One of the things is that PG is just a lot easier to work with. It flows better and makes measurements easier. My nephew is the cloud blowing look at me I vape type and wanted max VG. I picked some VG nic up and although it isn't terrible to deal with, it is more of a pita . When it is gone I probably wont get any more.

 

[Rossum]

Yep, pure VG is very thick/viscous, making it a pain to measure out. Some vendors cut their VG with a bit of water to make it flow better, but I suspect that negates any advantage VG might have when it comes to long-term storage. The other issue with nic in pure VG is that it's hard to be confident that the nic is evenly mixed/dispersed in it.

Since the target ratio for finished juice is about 35pg:65vg, I prefer to buy my nic in PG. Even at my usual 15mg nic, that still leaves room for 20% pg-based flavors, which is way more than I ever use, and I still end up adding more PG.

 

[Zabolee]

Thanks. First off, Rossum, I love your name. Did you take it from R.U.R or from Dollhouse?

I spent a lot of time working around glycerol, so I'm familiar with how thick VG can be, and how much of a pain measuring it is.

I'm sure this has been mentioned in other threads, but I'll ask. When mixing flavors, is it better to mix the flavor with the solvent first, and then add the nicotine. Say I want 100ml of juice at 1.5mg. I'll be taking 3.125ml of pg nic (I'll probably be buying a 48mg stock since I plan to be off nic soon anyway). Then I want to add 15% flavor. That would be 15ml of pg flavor. Should I add that 15 ml to the VG and miix it before adding the nic, or should I mix it with the nic so all of the PG is together before mixing it with VG?

 

[Rossum]

Thanks. First off, Rossum, I love your name. Did you take it from R.U.R or from Dollhouse?

Neither. It was assigned to me as an e-mail address at an employer I worked for prior to the internet age and I've used it off and on ever since.

I mix the nic with PG/VG first (making substantial sized batches of unflavored) and add flavor later, but I use lots of nic and relatively little flavoring, so whether that's right for you is another question.

 

[Rickb119]

I mix it all together.

One work of caution. If you use the same size/color bottle to mix in as the nic is in, be sure to add the nic first and then put it away.

I once put the nic in, got a phone call, came back and proceeded to continue. When I'd finished, I looked at the volume level (as I always do) and noticed that it had about 15ml more than normal. I soon realized that I had mixed everything into the bottle of 100mg nicotine. Oops. Needless to say, it got dumped.