voltage/resistance relationship - please explain

[danielwd]

Can I review what I think is correct (and probably wrong)?

High voltage batteries require high resistance atomizers. Lower voltage batteries require lower resistance.

This is what I've stumbled onto, but I'm confused. With a big Chuck mod., which I believe is 6V, I need a high resistance atomizer, with a Stacked mod., which is 3.7 voltage, I need a low resistance atomizer.

Can someone please give me a physics lesson on the relationship between voltage and resistance. And yes, I'm being lazy - I would much rather listen to someone on here tell me the answer than search for it myself.

 

[cskent]

As voltage increases, the required amperage is less for the same output. Double your voltage, and halve your amperage, or resistance. It's Ohm's law, V = R x A where v is voltage, R is resistance, and A is amperage. Simple algebra. 6 volts at 3 ohms resistance is the same as 3 volts at 1.5 ohms resistance, given the same amperage.

 

[AttyPops]

Think of voltage as how hard you push a big block across the floor.
Think of resistance as the friction of the floor on the block.

Goal: Move the block at 1 mph.

If you have high-push (high voltage) you need MORE friction (to slow the block down) so it moves the same speed as the low-push (low voltage) but less friction floor.

So, you can have a 1 mph block with little push but slippery floor, or 1 mph block with big-push, on a rough floor. Resistance is electrical friction.

 

[Cloudy Dave]

Hey just want to let you know I have been preparing an electrical basics 101 write up. I should be posting it sometime in this long weekend. It will explain the basics of electricity and how it relates to vaping. If anything PM me and I could send you it first and you can give me some feedback ?

 

[danielwd]

As voltage increases, the required amperage is less for the same output. Double your voltage, and halve your amperage, or resistance. It's Ohm's law, V = R x A where v is voltage, R is resistance, and A is amperage. Simple algebra. 6 volts at 3 ohms resistance is the same as 3 volts at 1.5 ohms resistance, given the same amperage.

So can you please relate this to attys. More voltage provides more amperage? I was thinking V=IR for some reason. I dont know what the "I" stands for, maybe "power"?

I am just wondering if someone can apply this Physics to why we want more volts in our batteries, and especially how it relates to having high volt mods and using high resistance attys or low resistance attys.

And which is best - using high resistance with high voltage or low resistance with high voltage?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Cloudy Dave]

Ok I have to remind myself to be quick and simple because this can be the exact opposite.

Voltage is determined by your battery/power source. Resistance is determined by your atomizer. The resistance of your atomizer is what will limit/control what amperage you get. So for vaping you have no need to know the amperage value. Power/Watts is the result of voltage and amperage which in our case is determined by the resistance of the atomizer.

Batteries/power sources are rated in volts. Atomizers are rated in resistance/Ohms. Variations of both will net you different wattage. To get vapor we need the liquid to get hot enough to turn into a gas/vapor. To get it hot we use a coil/atomizer, the battery provides voltage to the coil and it gets hot. The more voltage the hotter it gets, the lower the resistance of the coil the hotter it can get at the same voltage.

If you have a 3.7 volt battery and you use a low resistance atomizer (1.5 ohms for argument sake) you get about 9.1 watts. That same battery on a normal atomizer (3.0 ohms) will give you 4.5 watts. That same battery on a high resistance atomizer (4.5 ohms) will give you 3 watts. Now if you use a higher voltage battery with those same atomizers your wattage will go up respectively. 6 volts @ 1.5 ohms = 24 watts @ 3 Ohms= 12 @ 4.5 Ohms = 8 watts.

Now logic at this point would tell you that high volt and low resistance would be best but that logic is wrong. At a certain wattage the flavors will taste funny or taste burnt, basically they got too hot. And that poor little coil if it gets too hot will break. The sweet spot people speak about is in the 8-10 watt range, where flavors are not burnt, great vapor production and you won't burn/destroy your atomizer coil.

With high voltage (6 volts) your best results will be with regular atomizers or high resistance atomizers, 8-12 watts basically. If you use a low resistance atomizer you will almost immediately break your atomizer because 24 watts is too much for that thin coil to handle.

With low/regular voltage your best results will be with low resistance or normal atomizers, 4.5-9 watts basically. If you use a high resistance atomizer you will get almost no vapor because 3 watts isn't really enough to get the coil hot enough to produce even a little vapor and most likely almost none at all.

That was me trying to keep it short and simple LMAO sorry but I hope you can understand how this works now. There is somethings that make it a bit more involved and complicated but what i just typed was the gist of it.

 

[danielwd]

Ok I have to remind myself to be quick and simple because this can be the exact opposite.

Voltage is determined by your battery/power source. Resistance is determined by your atomizer. The resistance of your atomizer is what will limit/control what amperage you get. So for vaping you have no need to know the amperage value. Power/Watts is the result of voltage and amperage which in our case is determined by the resistance of the atomizer.

Batteries/power sources are rated in volts. Atomizers are rated in resistance/Ohms. Variations of both will net you different wattage. To get vapor we need the liquid to get hot enough to turn into a gas/vapor. To get it hot we use a coil/atomizer, the battery provides voltage to the coil and it gets hot. The more voltage the hotter it gets, the lower the resistance of the coil the hotter it can get at the same voltage.

If you have a 3.7 volt battery and you use a low resistance atomizer (1.5 ohms for argument sake) you get about 9.1 watts. That same battery on a normal atomizer (3.0 ohms) will give you 4.5 watts. That same battery on a high resistance atomizer (4.5 ohms) will give you 3 watts. Now if you use a higher voltage battery with those same atomizers your wattage will go up respectively. 6 volts @ 1.5 ohms = 24 watts @ 3 Ohms= 12 @ 4.5 Ohms = 8 watts.

Now logic at this point would tell you that high volt and low resistance would be best but that logic is wrong. At a certain wattage the flavors will taste funny or taste burnt, basically they got too hot. And that poor little coil if it gets too hot will break. The sweet spot people speak about is in the 8-10 watt range, where flavors are not burnt, great vapor production and you won't burn/destroy your atomizer coil.

With high voltage (6 volts) your best results will be with regular atomizers or high resistance atomizers, 8-12 watts basically. If you use a low resistance atomizer you will almost immediately break your atomizer because 24 watts is too much for that thin coil to handle.

With low/regular voltage your best results will be with low resistance or normal atomizers, 4.5-9 watts basically. If you use a high resistance atomizer you will get almost no vapor because 3 watts isn't really enough to get the coil hot enough to produce even a little vapor and most likely almost none at all.

That was me trying to keep it short and simple LMAO sorry but I hope you can understand how this works now. There is somethings that make it a bit more involved and complicated but what i just typed was the gist of it.

You deserve a reward of some kind. Thank you for your explanation. What I'm taking from it, is that basically a regular atty will do the trick in most cases, even with mods. My father-in-law has a big chuck mod. which is I believe 6V. I have mistakenly been buying him low resistance attys thinking I was helping the situation. Your explanation has helped me understand why this is not a good idea.

By the way, can you show me the formula and math you are using to get 3.7V and 1.5 ohms translating into 9.1 watts.

Thanks again for your in-depth coverage of my question. I am learning something!

 

[Cloudy Dave]

No problem man glad I was clear enough for you to understand. There is Pen and paper and a bunch of formulas to get one value out of the 4 values of electricity if you have two of the values. The values being voltage, resistance, amperage, wattage or V R I P/W respectively. Just wikipedia Ohms law they list them all there I think.

But we live in the age of calculators so I just use an Ohm's Law calculator like this one Ohm's Law Calculator
Just remember you always have your two values your voltage and your resistance.

 

[mistinthewoods]

This is as simple as I can put it. The goal for most of my best vaping is around 10 watts at the coil. To figure this take your voltage squared (multiplied times itself), and devide by the resistance. A 5 volt device with a 2.5 ohm atty or carto would be : 5V X 5V = 25, 25 /2.5 = 10. That's why so many vapers like 5 volts.

 

[Cloudy Dave]

This is as simple as I can put it. The goal for most of my best vaping is around 10 watts at the coil. To figure this take your voltage squared (multiplied times itself), and devide by the resistance. A 5 volt device with a 2.5 ohm atty or carto would be : 5V X 5V = 25, 25 /2.5 = 10. That's why so many vapers like 5 volts.

Unfortunately there are no single cell options for 5 volts. But it is possible to get different ohm atomizers. The future (and already a few pv mods have done this and many designs in the future are based around) is variable voltage. Now I would just wish that instead of variable voltage they would have a mod that detected the resistance of your atomizer automatically and as you want more power it would give you a Wattage reading because just a couple of tenths of resistance will give you some seriously different numbers at the same voltage.

Cisco I'm waiting for The Pulse lmao.

 

[Scottbee]

Unfortunately there are no single cell options for 5 volts. But it is possible to get different ohm atomizers. The future (and already a few pv mods have done this and many designs in the future are based around) is variable voltage. Now I would just wish that instead of variable voltage they would have a mod that detected the resistance of your atomizer automatically and as you want more power it would give you a Wattage reading because just a couple of tenths of resistance will give you some seriously different numbers at the same voltage.

Darwin/Evolv.

But it's kinda ugly.

 

[Another Puffer]

So let me get this straight, I have a regular 510 battery, which with a volt meter has about 4 volts (3.7 respectively) So the ideal atomizer Ohm would be around 2 Ohms for a 510 battery? Even though the atomizers I got with my Joye kit are about 4 Ohms when I put them on an Ohm meter. I use 3 Ohm cartos with the 510 batts and it still burns the juice.

 

[AttyPops]

So let me get this straight, I have a regular 510 battery, which with a volt meter has about 4 volts (3.7 respectively) So the ideal atomizer Ohm would be around 2 Ohms for a 510 battery? Even though the atomizers I got with my Joye kit are about 4 Ohms when I put them on an Ohm meter. I use 3 Ohm cartos with the 510 batts and it still burns the juice.

Wow. 4.0 ohms????? Atties are usually 3.0 - 2.5 ohms..... Don't forget to subtract the meter resistance.

Watch it tho, a lot of the 510's may read 3.7 but actually end up being 3.2 ish due to PWM and other issues..... Use V*V/R = W as above. So....
3.2 * 3.2 / 2.0 = 5.12 watts
3.7 * 3.7 / 2.0 = 6.8 watts

3 Ohm cartos with 510 batts burning juice... burning filler? Probably not too hot, just too dry/old/bad design/etc. Even at best case 3.7 volts 3.7 * 3.7 / 3 = 4.56 watts using your numbers. Probably depends more on the type of carto and amount of juice.

Hope this helps.

 

[Cloudy Dave]

So let me get this straight, I have a regular 510 battery, which with a volt meter has about 4 volts (3.7 respectively) So the ideal atomizer Ohm would be around 2 Ohms for a 510 battery? Even though the atomizers I got with my Joye kit are about 4 Ohms when I put them on an Ohm meter. I use 3 Ohm cartos with the 510 batts and it still burns the juice.

I never heard of juice burning at anything less than 8 watts, but if you don't have enough juice your wick or wicking material could be burning, make sure you have enough juice. For a 3.7 volt battery 1.5 ohm to 2.0 ohms is a nice spot for vaping. If you are using a regular 510 battery and not an eGo like battery with a higher Mah rating you shouldn't use a low resistance atomizer. The amperage draw on that little battery will likely be too much for it and you will get battery failure. To be honest I wouldn't try using a low res atty on anything smaller than 650 mah, the igher the better.

 

[AttyPops]

To be honest I wouldn't try using a low res atty on anything smaller than 650 mah, the igher the better.

Yeah, I should have added.... there are a number of threads on the commercial e-cig batteries/power supplies that indicate not using a LR atty unless you want to fry them (it's the MOSFET tech used to pass the current at the button-press that often fails - the PCB). mAh rating, even at 1000, won't help you. Although, the sites often warn you about having at least 650 mAh for battery capacity (to not over-stress the battery like Cloudy Dave is saying), they don't warn you about PCB failure.

See http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/madvapes/127262-about-low-resistance-specific-batteries.html

There are many threads about the eGo style power-supplies ("batteries") failing early. It's a risk some choose to take. Also, a 2.0 ohm atty may be sufficient, and reduce the premature failure.

Of course, many of the 3.7 volt "non-electronic" mods, like a nico-stick for example, don't have a PCB and don't fail as easily. Interesting, that they use protected batteries (that have a built-in PCB)....lol. Hope they fix the eGo-type PCB power dissipation issues.....

FYI

 

[Cloudy Dave]

Yeah I love my pure mechanical Omega, I know it will last me damn near forever, might need to change the springs every few years lol.