Walmart Food Flavors.

[Striker911]

Anyone try this? I bought 5 flavors that are all PG, based Banana, Coconut, Strawberry, Root Beer, and Vanilla. If anyone has tried this, what percent should I mix them at? This stuff was really cheap. For 2 oz it was a couple bucks so no love lost if I cant use it but at this point I dont see why not.

 

[panachronic]

When I first started DIY, I went to Walmart looking for Lorann flavors (because people here said they have them), and the flavors on the baking aisle, like the one in your picture, was all I could find.

I looked at them long and hard, and decided against trying any of them, for several reasons. For one thing, I seem to recall that at least some of them are alcohol-based - something I've tried to avoid (although, I may be wrong about this). But also because I doubt very much anybody in a position to know exactly what's in them has gone over the ingredients with a critical eye to see if they are suitable for vaping.

 

[salemgold]

As long as they don't contain oil they should be fine IMO. OSDIY sells a Watkins Cherry flavoring.
I used McCormicks on my very first DIY and there were no problems. I used Strawberry and Banana at 20% total flavor and they were pretty good.

PS There are many alcohol based flavorings that we use to make ejuice.

 

[salemgold]

Here is a link to the watkins Cherry Flavoring Watkins Imitation Cherry Extract - One Stop DIY Shop Store

 

[Striker911]

As long as they don't contain oil they should be fine IMO. OSDIY sells a Watkins Cherry flavoring.
I used McCormicks on my very first DIY and there were no problems. I used Strawberry and Banana at 20% total flavor and they were pretty good.

PS There are many alcohol based flavorings that we use to make ejuice.

Ya I have heard Alcohol was in a lot of juice we vape as well. May be something negative about it. Just never looked into it very far except that its not rubbing Al. I drink so I dont mind vaping some of it . Thanks for the info salemgold
I guess the only thing left to do is enjoy the vape. I love the Root Beer that I bought from SVC in the past, so I hope I can come close.

 

[salemgold]

LOL, I think what is in the flavors that we use for vaping is Ethyl Alcohol. many of them are pretty good. Most flavors are suspended in either PG or Ethyl Alcohol

Remember, what we use for our ejuice is all food flavorings at this point in time. Oil would be one thing that you would want to stay clear of though.

 

[MickeyRat]

I actually add a little Everclear to my DIY. Gives a little more throat hit. However, I can understand that some would prefer to avoid it. Besides breathing enough alcohol for you to feel it is more like being hungover than being drunk.

 

[YorkieGirl1]

Ive experimented some with extracts -- as long as everything in the ingredients looks okay, you should be fine with most of them - they are just on average a little weaker - you prob will need to use 20 t0 25%.

 

[Striker911]

Thanks everyone. I just like trying new things. Cant help it but as long as I know its safe and cheaper then why not right. Should I mix the Root Beer with Vanilla or malt? Guess I will try both and see whats best. Both sound good.

 

[panachronic]

As long as they don't contain oil they should be fine IMO.

I disagree.

For example, how do you know there is no diacetyl? Or acetoin? Both are fine to ingest as food, but will make very ill if inhaled, and neither are required to be listed as ingredients.

This is why I think it's essential to purchase flavors from vendors who understand how you intend to use them.

 

[panachronic]

There are many alcohol based flavorings that we use to make ejuice.

Just to clarify my early remarks...

I understand that alcohol is fine as a juice ingredient. I avoid it purely as my own personal preference.

 

[salemgold]

I disagree.

For example, how do you know there is no diacetyl? Or acetoin? Both are fine to ingest as food, but will make very ill if inhaled, and neither are required to be listed as ingredients.

This is why I think it's essential to purchase flavors from vendors who understand how you intend to use them.

Some vendors that understand how you want to use them have no clue if some of their flavors contain diacetyl or acetoin. Unless you have it tested, there is no real way to be sure. It is a personal choice to avoid both or either. One sure way would be to avoid all flavors with custard notes I am not knocking anyone either way and certainly don't want to start that subject up again but just thought that I would throw it out there.

 

[panachronic]

Some vendors that understand how you want to use them have no clue if some of their flavors contain diacetyl or acetoin. Unless you have it tested, there is no real way to be sure. It is a personal choice to avoid both or either. One sure way would be to avoid all flavors with custard notes I am not knocking anyone either way and certainly don't want to start that subject up again but just thought that I would throw it out there.

You are right, of course. Some vendors don't know, or don't understand the hazards. But I can just about guarantee you that nobody has even considered that people might inhale flavors commonly sold on the baking aisle.

Your example of custards is going to help me make my point. A friend of mine - a fellow DIYer who is ramping up to produce juice for our local brick and mortar vape shop - recently made a blanket statement that he would no longer mix juices with custard in them, for the exact reason that they may contain diacetyl. Then I showed him on Capella's website where it says that NONE of their flavors contain diacetyl. (Capella's just so happens to sell a very tasty and very popular Vanilla Custard flavor.) Prior to that, he had no idea. He had heard that custards automatically have diacetyl, and so therefore custards were bad.

So, which is better? Buying from a vendor that is oblivious to our concerns? Or buying from one that might - MIGHT - be knowledgeable and conscientious? I offer that the second option is the way to go.

 

[Striker911]

Thank you for bringing this up. I am going to see if Watkins does test for that. Chances are slim that they do but its worth a shot. On the other hand, I will also look up how to test and see If its easy to do so myself. TY.

 

[Striker911]

Guidance on Product Labels

Containers of food flavorings are subject to the labeling requirements of the HCS unless they are covered by the labeling provisions under the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act or the Virus-Serum-Toxin Act of 1912 (29 CFR 1910.1200(b)(5)(iii)). It is expected that most workplace labels will not generally be subject to this exception.

The HCS requires that manufacturers and employers determine and provide appropriate hazard warning language for labels. Based on the hazard information described above, labels for containers of diacetyl must contain hazard warning statements similar to the following in order to meet the intent of the HCS (29 CFR 1910.1200(f)(1)):

Diacetyl
DANGER Can cause damage to respiratory tract and lungs if inhaled
Highly flammable
WARNING Can cause eye, skin, nose, and throat irritation
Responsible party name and contact information

Based on current information, labels for containers of food flavorings containing one percent or more diacetyl must contain hazard warning statements similar to the following in order to meet the intent of the HCS (29 CFR 1910.1200(f)(1)):

FFCD name
DANGER Can cause damage to respiratory tract and lungs if inhaled
WARNING Can cause eye, skin, nose, and throat irritation
Responsible party name and contact information

I dont see any warning any place so you think its safe to say that Diacetyl is not in this product? It also says that this chemical is mostly in buttery flavors such as popcorn.

http://www.osha.gov/dsg/guidance/diacetyl-guidance.html

 

[Hoosier]

... containers of food flavorings containing one percent or more diacetyl must contain hazard warning statements ...
I dont see any warning any place so you think its safe to say that Diacetyl is not in this product? It also says that this chemical is mostly in buttery flavors such as popcorn.

Before FA reforumlated Caramel it contained something like 0.10% - 0.05% Diacetyl. According to those who believe that any amount is a horrible amount, that is too much. The guidelines you posted have a threshold 10 times higher.

The next problem you have with a hunt for this chemical is that it is naturally occuring. And it occurs from a wide range of interactions, so a producer would not have to put it in a mix for it to appear in the mix after some point in time.

So, natural flavorings are likely to have the D-word in them. Artifical flavors can have the D-word after they have time to degrade or react. And all these instances will have an amount that is less than the reporting threshold.

If this is a great concern, then the only real course of action to avoid it is to not use any flavoring period. That is the only real way you can be absolutely sure without having your juice go through a full spectrum analysis just before each vaping session.

This stuff is in more things than a vast majority of people will ever realize. And note that by the regulation that if the amount is less than 1%, the producer is perfectly legal saying there is none in the product. (And some of the substances it is in are not labeled with ingredients as that kind of label would violate other laws.)

 

[salemgold]

Well said, Hoosier

 

[salemgold]

You are right, of course. Some vendors don't know, or don't understand the hazards. But I can just about guarantee you that nobody has even considered that people might inhale flavors commonly sold on the baking aisle.

Your example of custards is going to help me make my point. A friend of mine - a fellow DIYer who is ramping up to produce juice for our local brick and mortar vape shop - recently made a blanket statement that he would no longer mix juices with custard in them, for the exact reason that they may contain diacetyl. Then I showed him on Capella's website where it says that NONE of their flavors contain diacetyl. (Capella's just so happens to sell a very tasty and very popular Vanilla Custard flavor.) Prior to that, he had no idea. He had heard that custards automatically have diacetyl, and so therefore custards were bad.

So, which is better? Buying from a vendor that is oblivious to our concerns? Or buying from one that might - MIGHT - be knowledgeable and conscientious? I offer that the second option is the way to go.

Using Capellas is a very good point to be made. Their custard is said not to contain diacetyl but it has been tested by another company and found to contain acetoin. Like I said, you really can not be certain unless you test yourself. Cigarettes contain way more diacetyl that the falvors diluted to make our ejuice do, just to add that bit of info.

Good rule of thumb if you are really concerned about diacetyl is to avoid all flavors with custard notes in them. There is no other way to get the custard notes in a flavor without it containing diacetyl or acetoin.

 

[Striker911]

This stuff has to come from some place. Its not too good to be true that I can get flavoring for 75% less then what I have been paying. For some sheep you may want to stick to your vendor. Where I can save a buck I will. Ive spent well over a grand in 6 months on ecigs. I added up what I would have spent on cigs ($288) in 6 months. Some people are just like me and live life, to figure out how to make it better. So really I am going to use this and if I die, then it was my time. We all die at some point. At least its not crack.

 

[panachronic]

Before FA reforumlated Caramel it contained something like 0.10% - 0.05% Diacetyl. According to those who believe that any amount is a horrible amount, that is too much. The guidelines you posted have a threshold 10 times higher.

The next problem you have with a hunt for this chemical is that it is naturally occuring. And it occurs from a wide range of interactions, so a producer would not have to put it in a mix for it to appear in the mix after some point in time.

So, natural flavorings are likely to have the D-word in them. Artifical flavors can have the D-word after they have time to degrade or react. And all these instances will have an amount that is less than the reporting threshold.

If this is a great concern, then the only real course of action to avoid it is to not use any flavoring period. That is the only real way you can be absolutely sure without having your juice go through a full spectrum analysis just before each vaping session.

This stuff is in more things than a vast majority of people will ever realize. And note that by the regulation that if the amount is less than 1%, the producer is perfectly legal saying there is none in the product. (And some of the substances it is in are not labeled with ingredients as that kind of label would violate other laws.)

That's quite a leap you're making, from "not required to list as an ingredient," to "perfectly legal saying there is none in the product." I'm not disagreeing, just pointing out the obvious.

You are correct, of course, to point out that diacetyl is far more ubiquitous than just about anybody realizes. It is, after all, a natural product of fermentation that is excreted by yeast.

The trouble is that the regulatory scheme for food labeling is gauged to eating , not inhaling.

Let's look at what the document at Striker911's link has to say:

"Respiratory Protection: Because there is no established permissible exposure limit (PEL),
NIOSH Recommended Exposure Limit (REL), or other recommended exposure limit for diacetyl
or FFCD, determining appropriate respiratory protection will depend on the specific conditions
under which these chemicals are used."

To me, this says a mouthful. I'm willing to ingest diacetyl orally, because I know from a lifetime of experience that it is very unlikely to hurt me. I am NOT willing to inhale it into my lungs, if I can help it, because doing so has proven to harm other people, and nobody can tell me if there is a safe threshold.