Watts , Amps , Volts Ohms Question

[RobbieVap]

I'm very confused in this area , why do people use watts and amps to explain the power needed to power different devices such s cartos etc , if a carto or dual coil carto , why wouldnt someone just say how many volts from your PV is needed to power it correctly.

And at the top of this chart
http://www.editgrid.com/user/elothen/Safe_Vaping_VoltagesIt goes from 3-6 volts , what do all those numbers in the green yellow and red area mean ?

Could someone explain this to me ? Because I have a Kgo vv and a 1.5 ohm DC cartomizer , does that mean each coil is 1.5 ohms so its a 3 ohm carto total?

I'm very lost in this area and seems to be one of the most confusing aspects when it comes to learning about the electric workings of vaping .

Could somone explain this , and how watts and amps come in , or a Link to where it explains it ?

please , it'd be very appreciated , thankyou.

Also if anyone could get into what people mean with the term "resistance " and the difference between dual coil and single coil . I read dual coil wouldn't be worth even using on anykgo battery , even the VV because the voltage and battery mah isn't powerful enough ?

 

[rondasherrill]

I'm very confused in this area , why do people use watts and amps to explain the power needed to power different devices such s cartos etc , if a carto or dual coil carto , why wouldnt someone just say how many volts from your PV is needed to power it correctly.

And at the top of this chart
http://www.editgrid.com/user/elothen/Safe_Vaping_VoltagesIt goes from 3-6 volts , what do all those numbers in the green yellow and red area mean ?

Could someone explain this to me ? Because I have a Kgo vv and a 1.5 ohm DC cartomizer , does that mean each coil is 1.5 ohms so its a 3 ohm carto total?

I'm very lost in this area and seems to be one of the most confusing aspects when it comes to learning about the electric workings of vaping .

Could somone explain this , and how watts and amps come in , or a Link to where it explains it ?

please , it'd be very appreciated , thankyou.

A 1.5ohm DC is 1.5 ohms... It's weird electrical math. Actually, it's 2 coils that are 3 ohms apiece in parallel, but for our purposes it's just 1.5ohms and that's all that we need to know.

The ohms of your carto are what decide what voltage you need. Higher ohms need higher voltage to give the same hit. That's the next part. Watts is the power output, or how strong the hit will be, basically. Voltage squared divided by ohms gives you the watts.

Once you figure out the wattage that gives you the best vape, you can always know what voltage you need for each different carto in order to reproduce it.

The link you pointed to isn't showing up, but I imagine it's the safe vaping range chart... basically, the lower stuff(yellow IIRC) is too low to provide a decent vape, the middle(green IIRC) is the "optimum range". It's where most people vape, between 5-8 watts. The top(red IIRC) is what is considered too high... More throat hit than most prefer, and the chance for popping a coil or burning a carto is higher.

 

[RobbieVap]

Thanks for the help , I'm starting to understand a bit , so it sounds like most would need a calculator to figure out the watts lol . And where do the watts come from , the battery itself ? If you know the mah and voltage of your battery , what do you need to know the watts for ?
Couldn'tyou find the optimum vape based just on ohms and the voltage of your device ?
And so what do you reccomend single or dual coil devices, figure you'd need a higher voltage for DC ? or no , because as you said , dual coil or not , it would still be 1.5 ohms .? and last things , where and how
do amps come in to play ?

Yes the chart you mentioned is the one I linked , and thankyou very much for the quick response

And in Dual coil , how could a cart be 1.5 ohms if each coil is 3 ohms , logically wouldn't that mean its a 6 ohm device?

 

[rondasherrill]

Thanks for the help , I'm starting to understand a bit , so it sounds like most would need a calculator to figure out the watts lol . And where do the watts come from , the battery itself ? If you know the mah and voltage of your battery , what do you need to know the watts for ?
Couldn'tyou find the optimum vape based just on ohms and the voltage of your device ?
And so what do you reccomend single or dual coil devices, figure you'd need a higher voltage for DC ? or no , because as you said , dual coil or not , it would still be 1.5 ohms .? and last things , where and how
do amps come in to play ?

Yes the chart you mentioned is the one I linked , and thankyou very much for the quick response

And in Dual coil , how could a cart be 1.5 ohms if each coil is 3 ohms , logically wouldn't that mean its a 6 ohm device?

Watts has nothing to do with mAh of the battery. Basing your vape on volts and ohms actually IS going by watts, even if you aren't working with exact numbers. For instance, if you know that 2ohms @ 4v is best for you, you are @ 8 watts. You don't have to know the watts, but that's the measurement that is defined by volts and ohms.

DC's are a weird subject... Coils are basically resistors... You only add them together when they are in series, as in one after the other connected end to end. In parallel, the math is a bit harder: 1 / (1/R1 + 1/R2). That is 1 divided by the sum of 1 over one coil plus 1 over the second coil. Like I said, really weird electrical math.

As far as amps, they only come into play for 2 reasons. Higher amp draw means battery life is shorter, and of course you have to watch amp limits.

Dual coils are good because each individual coil is higher rated, they can handle much higher voltages than a single coil of the same resistance. The down side is shorter battery life.

 

[RobbieVap]

How do you know how many amps the device you are using has ? I never see amps mentioned on any products. And since I only have a Kgo should i stick to single coil since the voltage doesn't go that high?
So now for the math , say 2.5 ohms and 5 volts = 12.5 watts correct ?
So really , watts dont really even matter as long as you know what ohms/voltage works best for you

Thanks much for the help <3
-rob

 

[rondasherrill]

Amps aren't really something that is put out by a device, but rather something that is pulled by the carto. The amps pulled varies depending on resistance and voltage. Amps are pulled, and Watts are pushed, is the best way to think of it.

For instance, 2.5ohms @ 5v = 10 watts @ 2 amps

Play around with the ohms law calculators at this link to get an idea of how they work together. 3rd one down under Calculate for Current will show you amps, and third one down under Calculate for Power will give you watts:

http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/ohmslawcalculators.asp

 

[AttyPops]

Devices have amp limits. If you're trying to do more amps than the device allows...it won't work. Voltage suffers.

The limits come either from the battery itself, or the electronics. You'll see references to a "# amp switch" for example. It's actually a reference to the entire device unless someone is discussing buttons. Anyway, it's like "max RPMs" a motor can endure, or "Speed Limit" or "max PSI". It's a limit too. The formulas give theoretical values for desired amps...not device capable amps.

All these things work together. If you have any 2 you have all 4 of them (volts, amps, ohms, watts) defined.

So like rondasherrill is saying, for any ohm atty/carto at any voltage, the others are defined by formulas. These are theoretical values, the device may be limited for example.

Ohm's Law Calculator

Plug in any two and you get the rest.

Another analogy that helps people:
Volts = water pressure
Ohms = resistance = amount of restriction of the nozzle at the end (lower value = less restriction)
Amps = volume of water passing a point per second. May think of pipe/hose diameter too.
Watts = amount of work that can be done with the water flow...volts X amps.

 

[RobbieVap]

the only other thing I know , is how do I know the limit for my battery , or how many amps are being pulled by .. say a 1.5 ohm LR carto ?
I'll bookmark the links you guys posted and check em out now , thanks so much for the help bros
And atty pops , on that link theres a resistance , current , and power field to enter , lol how the hell am I supposed to know what those are .
This is ridiculously complex , especially for a noob like me . I'm a fast learner but this is a bit overwhelming lol.
Do you guys prefer single or dual coil ?

Edit . I used the chart and the volts ^2 /Ohms and got 11.3 watts , what does that even do for me lol I don't know how that number is even going to help me, r how do I convert wattage by into volts ?

And on that list , would I want to calculate for power , current , resistance or voltage?

#mind blown

One last thing , How do I find out what to write in the resistance field , I cant write low resistance or standard resistance lol , wait ooh is resistance and ohms the same thing ?

 

[AttyPops]

Well, you have to know the voltage AND the ohms. Plug it in the calculator...it will tell you the amps.

3.7 volts at 1.5 ohms is 2.46667 amps (also 9.12667 watts). Not all batteries can output all needed amps. Some devices need more amps too (like those that boost voltage). So that's where high-drain batteries come into play. High-drain = high amp capable.

As for the battery ....check the specs. That's tricky. There is no 100% answer. You'll know the "normal" range. But if you put a 1.5 ohm atty on a super-mini e-cig it won't have the amps necessary and it would stress it...for example.

 

[RobbieVap]

http://imageshack.us/a/img411/6653/ecigcalc1.png Calc pic 1
http://imageshack.us/a/img826/9809/ecigcalc2.png Calc pic 2
( made a few mistakes in the images , the numbers below are correct)
Are you saying the only way to find out the amps is to find out on the battery? I thought the amps were based on how many amps the cartomizer for example uses to work.

So The amps come up as-
Current (Amps?) : 2.3
Power (Wattage?): 11.3
Resistance (Ohms ) : 2.2
Voltage ( Volts ? ) : 5

And The Original Voltage I put in was 5 , based on my Kgo VV , So is my kGo VV has 2.3 amps , 11.3 watts , 2.2 ohms , and It's currently on 5 volts ?
So I filled everything out ... Could one of you guys please explain what this means , pretty please .

It looks like chinese to me , I have no idea how knowing those numbers could help me

And Attypops , on your calculator I'm getting all the numbers the same except for the voltage , i assumed the voltage would be what my battery is set on , but when I fill in the first 2 fields ,it tells me my volts are 11.3 . Is the calculator confusing it with wattage?

 

[AttyPops]

You got it right. The only point I was making is that now that you have the #'s...the device may not put out the desired amps. 2.3 is probably fine. Some are limited to 2.5 amps for example. So a Dual-coil carto at 1.6 ohms and 5 volts is over the 2.5 amp limit of the device.

As far as "helping you"... I guess I'd need a better understanding of your question. The #'s are the #'s. What's the question?
What those #'s say is "If you set the device to 5 volts, and use a 2.2 ohm carto, it will be 11.3 watts (kinda high IMO) and draws 2.3 amps."

Normal vaping range is 7-9 watts. YMMV.

 

[RobbieVap]

You answered most actually , but since you said the normal vaping range is 7-9 watts , how do I lower that from 11 down to about 8 ? Would that mean lowering my voltage or using a lower ohm carto?

Okay I checked again , in the calculator I put in 4.5 volts , and 2.2 ohms ( which is the ohms of the clearomizer I'm using ) and the watts came out to 7.2 . So basicaly my problem was I had the voltage set too high for a 2.2 ohm device . Does LR/SR/HR (resistance ) have any effect on the wattage?

Wow thanks so much , i put a tank with a 2.8 ohm atomizer/wick on my vv and set it to 4.7 volts and the wattage came to 7.8 and it's working beautifully , I wish I knew this from the beginning , that calculator is amazing now that I understand it , and my normal kgo running at i guess 4 volts with a 2.2 ohm came to 7.2 watts , so I'm right in the range , and aleast I know now .

Time to bookmark this thread ! I can't thank you enough for your help and time you spent assisting me , thanks so much Attypops. And whats YMMV?

( just let me know if I'm on the right track with what I said above )

I never knew 7-9 was the normal range. What could happen if you go over 9 or under 7 ?Could you risk frying the battery or atomizer ?

And one last thing, on the calculator , Power means Watts , Current means Amps , Resistance is Ohms , and Voltage is ... Self Explanatory

 

[rondasherrill]

I never knew 7-9 was the normal range. What could happen if you go over 9 or under 7 ?Could you risk frying the battery or atomizer ?

And one last thing, on the calculator , Power means Watts , Current means Amps , Resistance is Ohms , and Voltage is ... Self Explanatory

Under 7 just won't produce a decent vape, and over 9v, there is an increased risk of burning liquid or popping atomizers. That having been said, plenty of people vape at 6 watts, and at the opposite end plenty of people vape at 10 watts(like myself) or more.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Okay I checked again , in the calculator I put in 4.5 volts , and 2.2 ohms ( which is the ohms of the clearomizer I'm using ) and the watts came out to 7.2 . So basicaly my problem was I had the voltage set too high for a 2.2 ohm device . Does LR/SR/HR (resistance ) have any effect on the wattage?

...

Calculator are Great.

But sometimes it Helps to look at the Basic Math to understand the Over Arching Concepts of a System.

Take Watts.

Power Formula: “Watts equals Voltage Squared divided by Ohms“

=> Watts = Volts2 / ohms

So when the Denominator in this Fraction Volts2 / Ohms gets Smaller, it makes the Watts get Bigger.

And when the Numerator in this Fraction Volts2 / Ohms gets Bigger, it makes the Watts get Bigger.

Hence, when the Ohms are Smaller, More Watts are Produced for a given Voltage. Or when the Voltage gets Bigger, More Watts are Produced for a given Ohms.

One thing you may have Noticed. If it had just been Volts / Ohms then the Rate of Change of the Watts (the Differential) would have been the same. But because the Volts are Squared, the Rate of Change of the Watts happens Faster when you Change the Voltage versus when you change the ohms.

ie: A .1 unit of Change for Volts does Not cause the same change to Watts as a .1 unit change in Ohms.

 

[AttyPops]

YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary. Common internet expression for "Your personal results may differ from the norm due to various reasons."

(zoiDman for President) Yeah, voltage squared divided by ohms = watts. That's the usual one I mention when I'm not explaining all the other gunk.

Does resistance effect wattage? Sure! watts = voltage squared / ohms...so yeah. Different divisor.

You can up the ohms or lower the voltage to make it cooler. Note the effect of the squaring of the voltage like zoiD said.

If you go over 9, you go over 9. Eventually it gets too hot and/or pops the coil wire. Like was said...some vape at 10. However, it depends on the coil and how it performs. Also dripping lets you make sure it stays wet so you don't pop it. Evaporative cooling. Like boiling water in a paper cup. If you keep it wet, it won't pop. But too wet and it floods. Tightrope. Wicking systems often are more touchy than dripping when it comes to burning juice.

Also...note....think of ohms = resistance = friction. So the higher the #, the less flow (more friction = slower flow).

 

[RobbieVap]

Zoidman , when you say
ie: A .1 unit of Change for Volts does Not cause the same change to Watts as a .1 unit change in Ohms.

So just to make sure i have it right , its because since the volts are squared , the number is a lot larger hence having a bigger effect on the change of the number in watts , as opposed to ohms whose number differs from maybe 1.8-3.0 roughly , correct ? Around 8 watts seems to be working good. I'd like a bit more throat hit but I think it's the juice.

Attypops , when you said :
Does resistance effect wattage? Sure! watts = voltage squared / ohms...so yeah. Different divisor.

i didn't mean resistance as ohms , but for cartomizers for example when they say LR or HR , because there can be a 1.7 LR and a 1.7 HR cartomizer , thats what I meant if that would have to be factored in .

On that topic , what do you guys vape with / find works the best ?

Cartos,carto tanks ,attys , tanks ,clearos , etc , what gives you the best flavor and all that , basically what would you use as your daily vape

thanks

Edit - BTW I love your ohm -friction analogy , thats great and made it a lot clearer for me . So the more friction , the more volts you need to loosen it up

 

[zoiDman]

Zoidman , when you say
ie: A .1 unit of Change for Volts does Not cause the same change to Watts as a .1 unit change in Ohms.

So just to make sure i have it right , its because since the volts are squared , the number is a lot larger hence having a bigger effect on the change of the number in watts , as opposed to ohms whose number differs from maybe 1.8-3.0 roughly , correct ? Around 8 watts seems to be working good. I'd like a bit more throat hit but I think it's the juice.

...

Yeah... Thats the Concept.

Remember, that is the Voltage of you PV Doesn't change, the the Only thing that Changes the Watts is the Resistance of the Carto/Atty.

Lower Ohms with the Same Volts means the Cart/Atty runs Hotter.
Higher Ohms with the Same Volts means the Cart/Atty runs Cooler.

Most people Vape somewhere around 8 watts. Doesn'tmean it is Best or you Should. It all depends on what you like.

Me, I tend to Vape more at 7 Watts. I like Sweet e-Liquids. And the Sweetness tends to get Crushed at Wattages over 8 Watts.

Also, I use CE2 Cartomizers 99% of the time. They don't work so Great over 8 Watts or so.

 

[AttyPops]

And BTW.....

LR = Low Resistance = low ohms
HR = High Resistance = high ohms

So no such thing as 1.7 HR carto. Probably a typo on a website if it says that (should have been LR at 1.7). Unless someone invented terminology that I haven't heard about yet... They do have HH.3## stuff in multi-ohms. That's a brand name.

Easy to get this stuff turned around...even for vets and vendors. So many terms and specs and products. Just wrapping your head around it when you're new is daunting.

 

[zoiDman]

It all can be Confussing because there are No Real Standards for LR, SR and HR.

Many will refer to Anything less that 2.0 ohms as LR. 2.0 ~ 3.0 ohm as SR. And Anything over 3.0 ohms as HR.