We need a bigger boat.

[skoony]

While snooping around the FDA site I came across the in tobacco news and events.
We are simply being outgunned.
This Week in CTP - January 19, 2016
Regards
Mike

 

[Kent C]

While snooping around the FDA site I came across the in tobacco news and events.
We are simply being outgunned.
This Week in CTP - January 19, 2016
Regards
Mike

Oh boy. "Requests Information on Psychosocial Predictors of Consumer Initiation".... let the psychobabble begin. Carl P should be ecstatic!

 

[Lessifer]

Someone tell me again why we're just supposed to accept the tobacco label and fight for e-cig specific regulations under Tobacco Control?

 

[curiousJan]

Someone tell me again why we're just supposed to accept the Tobacco label and fight for e-cig specific regulations under Tobacco Control?

Because we don't want nicotine regulated as a drug. That would be orders of magnitude worse than what we currently face.

 

[AndriaD]

Someone tell me again why we're just supposed to accept the Tobacco label and fight for e-cig specific regulations under Tobacco Control?

Because the ......s are in charge and the only thing their tiny minds can manage is "tobacco' or "not-tobacco"... Best explanation I can come up with.

Andria

 

[skoony]

Because we don't want nicotine regulated as a drug. That would be orders of magnitude worse than what we currently face.

It should be regulated as neither. As a mater of fact it shouldn't be regulated at
all.

Regards
Mike

 

[Lessifer]

Because we don't want nicotine regulated as a drug. That would be orders of magnitude worse than what we currently face.

agreed, but it is possible to come up with a third option.

 

[Jingles]

agreed, but it is possible to come up with a third option.

Nutritional or herbal supplement?

 

[curiousJan]

It should be regulated as neither. As a mater of fact it shouldn't be regulated at
all.

Regards
Mike

It should be regulated in exactly the manner in which caffeine and alcohol are.

 

[edyle]

Nutritional or herbal supplement?

Isn't nicotine actually usefull as a pesticide?

 

[Lessifer]

Nutritional or herbal supplement?

Unfortunately I think they are planning another move on the supplement industry.

The fact is, vaping is a recreational activity that may or may not contain any of the following: vg, pg, flavorings, nicotine.

 

[skoony]

It should be regulated in exactly the manner in which caffeine and alcohol are.

Except caffeine is not regulated other than it being another consumable product
like beans or frozen dinners.
Mike

 

[AndriaD]

What I object to THE MOST is having a fascist gov't that think they need -- and have a right! -- to "regulate" EVERYTHING!

I object to being treated like a child, when I'm nearly 55 yrs old!

Andria

 

[Lessifer]

Let me just spell out my thinking a little bit. I know that at this point, it would take a bill making its way through Congress to designate vaping as something other than tobacco. The enormity of the challenge is not the point.

Once vaping is deemed as tobacco, even if there are some vape specific tobacco regulations, it will forever be a defensive fight. We will always be trying to prove why a particular tobacco control regulation should NOT apply to this particular tobacco product. Conversely, if vaping is not a tobacco product, someone would presumably have to justify why a particular regulation SHOULD be applied to vaping.

 

[Rossum]

We don't need a bigger boat. We need a scuba tank and a rifle.

 

[TheMike21]

What I object to THE MOST is having a fascist gov't that think they need -- and have a right! -- to "regulate" EVERYTHING!

We have given them that power over the years unfortunately. In my country for example:
We love complaining about corrupt cops yet we don't stop trying to bribe them or stick to the rules.
We blame them for not having a job yet when they offer us to pick up garbage we say it's beneath us.
We complain about the low education levels yet we blame the teacher for our son not doing the homework.
We complain about bad or insufficient public services yet only 46% of us pay our taxes.
When we drink to much we blame alcohol, or the bartender who served us.
When we get a bad reaction we blame the medicine not the fact that we self and over medicated.
And so on.

So we made others responsable and they prefer to regulate us before we blame the B&M for not explaining battery safety, the E-liquid manufacturer for not putting a child protective top when our child drinks our liquid, a vendor for making juice next to a toilet or blaming who ever because we inhaled something we never knew could be harmful but ends up having consequences in 30 years.

 

[curiousJan]

Except caffeine is not regulated other than it being another consumable product
like beans or frozen dinners.
Mike

Exactly!

 

[Rossum]

We have given them that power over the years unfortunately.

What do you mean, "We", friend?
Fallacies - Ambiguous Collective

 

[curiousJan]

Let me just spell out my thinking a little bit. I know that at this point, it would take a bill making its way through Congress to designate vaping as something other than tobacco. The enormity of the challenge is not the point.

Once vaping is deemed as tobacco, even if there are some vape specific tobacco regulations, it will forever be a defensive fight. We will always be trying to prove why a particular tobacco control regulation should NOT apply to this particular tobacco product. Conversely, if vaping is not a tobacco product, someone would presumably have to justify why a particular regulation SHOULD be applied to vaping.

I don't have an objection to nicotine being classified as a tobacco product ... because it is a tobacco product. The next step for Congress is to differentiate between tobacco products, and I think they already have. The FSPTCA contains a section regarding modified risk products which is exactly what ENDS and snus are. It may take a kick in the rear to the FDA from Congress to get the classification acknowledged and utilized, but they put it there for a reason ... and it wasn't to kill yet another tree.

 

[AndriaD]

We have given them that power over the years unfortunately. In my country for example:
We love complaining about corrupt cops yet we don't stop trying to bribe them or stick to the rules.
We blame them for not having a job yet when they offer us to pick up garbage we say it's beneath us.
We complain about the low education levels yet we blame the teacher for our son not doing the homework.
We complain about bad or insufficient public services yet only 46% of us pay our taxes.
When we drink to much we blame alcohol, or the bartender who served us.
When we get a bad reaction we blame the medicine not the fact that we self and over medicated.
And so on.

So we made others responsable and they prefer to regulate us before we blame the B&M for not explaining battery safety, the E-liquid manufacturer for not putting a child protective top when our child drinks our liquid, a vendor for making juice next to a toilet or blaming who ever because we inhaled something we never knew could be harmful but ends up having consequences in 30 years.

What you just described are children: those incapable of accepting responsibility for their own actions and their natural consequences. Unfortunately, that sort of immaturity is not confined to your country; it seems to be the modern epidemic -- blame someone else -- be a victim, rather than taking responsibility for your own choices and paying the price for them.

I refuse to be that sort of child; I am responsible for my life and my choices, and no matter what idiocy my gov't attempts to foist on me, I refuse to be limited by it -- that's why I have 22-35 yrs' worth of nicotine in my freezer -- even though nicotine isn't a huge thing for me, I simply refuse to be deprived of it before *I* decide I'm done with it.

I've been sober for 23 yrs because I took responsibility for the fact that I'm an alcoholic -- an accident of genetics, surely, but the choice to drink or not, that is mine. I take the same responbility for the rest of my life, and will not allow the gov't to take it from me. It is MY life, not theirs.

Andria